Deep Water Blackout, Out of Character Thread Options

[TheOneRonin]

For the record, the extraction won't be the really nasty part. For all intents and purposes, we will be ambushing the mark and his entourage, so we should have a very clear advantage as long as we play our cards right. The REALLY nasty part is getting the mark to the drop point. Every minute that we have him in our custody increases the chance that WE get ambushed, tracked, etc. Desmond's approach to this sort of work is very SLOW and METHODICAL up until we grab the mark. Then is HAUL FUCKING ASS AND DON'T EVEN STOP FOR CHILDREN/OLD LADIES until we can dump him.

In fact, our exfil plan is probably more important than our infil plan.

One more thing, Desmond isn't going to like it if Kurita says "Once you have him, call me and we will set up a meet." Fuck that. We need to have a drop point before we walk out of this joint, and preferably one that doesn't have any time constraints like "drop him off after midnight in two days", and isn't dozens of miles away.

[BlackHat]

Good thoughts. I wouldn't have considered a lot of that stuff (be sure to bring it up in character at some point).

The one point that I would argue would be on the infiltration/exfiltration plan, and only because of the constraint on needing the cargo intact (and not knowing what it is, or how big it is). We need a good plan for boarding that ship, without having our ship noticed, or come into range. Otherwise, they're likely to attack (smugglers come well-armed) and we can't afford to fire back - as sinking their ship could lose us both target and cargo. Also, our ship is worth more than this guy is offering, so it isn't worth the gamble that it would get hit with a torpedo and sink - whereas they don't need us or our ship at all, and their lives (and their cargo) are almost certainly worth more than the cost of the ammunition it would take to sink us.

So, the entire plan is likely going to be contingent on our ability to get on board their ship, without entering ship-to-ship combat - which I think is entirely doable, but will take finesse. My point is really that if we f-up the infiltration, and either they fire on the Odyssey, or we fire on their ship, we've probably just lost the money we stand to gain. We can afford for the exfiltration to be a little messier, or complicated, once we've secured Chan, alive, and identified and possibly removed the cargo. At that point, if someone comes for us (either because we have to wait to handoff the cargo, or because the drop point is far away), we don't have to hesitate to kill them, or destroy whatever vessels they hunt us down in.

On the way in, our hands are tied, on the way out, the gloves come off.

That said, I am all for negotiating with Kurita to better define the hand-off procedure, and cover our asses there.

[TheOneRonin]

Good thoughts. I wouldn't have considered a lot of that stuff (be sure to bring it up in character at some point).

Hmmm, I can, but do you think I could bring it up at the negotiating table, or afterwards? Should I ask Kurita for a 5-min break so the team can discuss some stuff alone, or would that be too unprofessional?

The one point that I would argue would be on the infiltration/exfiltration plan, and only because of the constraint on needing the cargo intact (and not knowing what it is, or how big it is). We need a good plan for boarding that ship, without having our ship noticed, or come into range. Otherwise, they're likely to attack (smugglers come well-armed) and we can't afford to fire back - as sinking their ship could lose us both target and cargo. Also, our ship is worth more than this guy is offering, so it isn't worth the gamble that it would get hit with a torpedo and sink - whereas they don't need us or our ship at all, and their lives (and their cargo) are almost certainly worth more than the cost of the ammunition it would take to sink us.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that the infil part of the plan would be cake. It WILL be challenging...but it's basically an ambush. If they don't know we are coming, we have the edge. Remember, we choose the time and place of the strike, so we will be driving the whole thing. But, you are spot on about getting the ship involved in a fight. That's bad news all-around. Hell, trying to board the target ship out in the open has it's own challenges. We might even want to consider hitting the boat when it comes into port, or even sometime after that.

So, the entire plan is likely going to be contingent on our ability to get on board their ship, without entering ship-to-ship combat - which I think is entirely doable, but will take finesse. My point is really that if we f-up the infiltration, and either they fire on the Odyssey, or we fire on their ship, we've probably just lost the money we stand to gain. We can afford for the exfiltration to be a little messier, or complicated, once we've secured Chan, alive, and identified and possibly removed the cargo. At that point, if someone comes for us (either because we have to wait to handoff the cargo, or because the drop point is far away), we don't have to hesitate to kill them, or destroy whatever vessels they hunt us down in.

Agreed. We cannot botch the infil. Like I said earlier, we could take it at port. The pros for that are A.) Our vessel isn't ever put at risk, B.) Increased options for exfil, C.) Reduction in the amount of time we have to hold onto the target while we are enroute to the drop point. The Cons are A.) Possibly more backup for the badguys on land, B.) Gunfire could draw the Star/LE/Whomever, C.) If they are going to expect to get hit, the will expect it to happen when they put in.

On the way in, our hands are tied, on the way out, the gloves come off.

That said, I am all for negotiating with Kurita to better define the hand-off procedure, and cover our asses there.

I 2nd that.

[BlackHat]

Hmmm, I can, but do you think I could bring it up at the negotiating table, or afterwards? Should I ask Kurita for a 5-min break so the team can discuss some stuff alone, or would that be too unprofessional?

Either bring it up politely, or text-message someone else with the thought. The break idea sounds fine too. Bringing it up afterwards is too late, though.

Agreed. We cannot botch the infil. Like I said earlier, we could take it at port. The pros for that are A.) Our vessel isn't ever put at risk, B.) Increased options for exfil, C.) Reduction in the amount of time we have to hold onto the target while we are enroute to the drop point. The Cons are A.) Possibly more backup for the badguys on land, B.) Gunfire could draw the Star/LE/Whomever, C.) If they are going to expect to get hit, the will expect it to happen when they put in.

Given that we're doing something illegal, too, all of those pros are also cons for us, and all of those cons could be pros (they might be less likely to shoot us, because they don't want Star attention, either). Chances are, if they've done their job, their payoffs are in place, and our are not - so I would still give port advantage to the smugglers, not the pirates. Also, we don't want to risk having to take the stuff after it gets handed to the Triads (which might happen right away). Much better to make sure it never arrives - not that this would be any less meddling in their interests.

For that reason, I am leaning towards an engagement at sea. Like you said, they might not expect it, and if we commit this crime outside of Seattle (and UCAS waters), we won't have to worry about Law Enforcement following up on it - we only have to worry about the Triads following up on it. Hopefully, the anonymity of Shadowrunning will cover us there - they might find out who was involved, but know they weren't behind it. The Star would probably be happy just taking the crew that actually committed the crime.

[DireRadiant]

Is there someone who can't be in a Team only AR conversation? Unless there is, then it should be fairly trivial for us to have an ongoing virtual chat the Johnson is not overhearing.

[crizh]

Is there someone who can't be in a Team only AR conversation? Unless there is, then it should be fairly trivial for us to have an ongoing virtual chat the Johnson is not overhearing.

Unless he's already hacked our coms....

But seriously, I would hope our commo expert had walked us through this on the way to the meet....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[pragma]

There is the issue that he could record our wireless traffic and decrypt it later, but as it stands we should always be at least three seconds conversation ahead of him. I think the AR talk is fine.

Something that may be worth consideration when dealing with the other boat: we have a huge amount of diving and underwater combat experience on this team and it may be possible to leverage that by, for example, putting breaching charges on the other ships hull and convincing them that we have no qualms sinking their ship. I think it neatly sidesteps the issue of needing to infiltrate their boat.

[TheOneRonin]

@Pragma: That's a fantastic idea, as long as they don't call our bluff. Obviously, if we sink their ship, we lose the mark and the cargo. Maybe the ship sinking could be a backup plan if the infil goes south.

As far as the AR goes, I'm cool with it, as long as the bossman says it's something we can do mid-conversation. And like Pragma said, by the time Kurtia could get our comm chatter decrypted, the deal would already be done.

[crizh]

There is the issue that he could record our wireless traffic and decrypt it later, but as it stands we should always be at least three seconds conversation ahead of him. I think the AR talk is fine.

Actually one of the interesting quirks of this system is that your not allowed to intercept traffic until after you've broken the Encryption so we should be safe there.

Something that may be worth consideration when dealing with the other boat: we have a huge amount of diving and underwater combat experience on this team and it may be possible to leverage that by, for example, putting breaching charges on the other ships hull and convincing them that we have no qualms sinking their ship. I think it neatly sidesteps the issue of needing to infiltrate their boat.

A ship can have all sorts of nasty accidents without it sinking. If the screw were to fall off or suddenly not be screw shaped any more they'd be dead in the water. They might even accept assistance from a passing vessel....

[DireRadiant]

@Pragma: That's a fantastic idea, as long as they don't call our bluff. Obviously, if we sink their ship, we lose the mark and the cargo. Maybe the ship sinking could be a backup plan if the infil goes south.

Sink the ship, rescue the mark, salvage the wreck.

It'll be easier to transfer the cargo if the crew abandons, as long as they don't destroy the cargo, but if we need to sink it, then I'm sure between us we can salvage it, as long as the cargo can take the submersion.

And consider that if the right kind of accident occurs, it may turn into a perfectly legitimate salvage operation as far as the authorities are concerned.

[DireRadiant]

A great deal may depend on what the cargo actually is, in determining what is the easiest and best way for us to get it.

[Method]

Hello all,

Finally managed to get online for a bit. I'm back in Seattle Friday, so I should be more accessible then.

- Lidralyn: please let me know how you will configure your search agents and if you plan to run them from your comm or upload them to a node.

- I'm okay with you all messaging each other in AR. I assume that Guy would have set up a secured network in advance. And pragma crizh is correct- BBB pgs.224 & 225 say you have to decrypt before you can record etc.

[edit]I don't think Kurita would be willing to provide any more specifics at this point without a firm commitment from the crew to take the job. After all, he has no guarantees you guys won't bogart the shipment for yourselves, right? If you're all in I'll post answers to some of your concerns and you can re-negotiate if things sound too sketchy.[/edit]

[Method]

Surrounding Area
Warehouse and Pier
Warehouse (Roof)
Warehouse (Catwalks)
Warehouse (Ground Floor and attached Sheds)

[Method]

So just to be clear, I'm not trying to railroad you guys into taking the shipment at the meet. Kurita is just presenting the information he has. Feel free to explore any of the options above or any other creative solutions. I can run with whatever you guys come up with.

[pragma]

It may be worth asking if the shipment's waterproof -- I rather like the idea of making this into a salvage op. Other than that I don't think there' s a lot left to discuss.

[BlackHat]

My guess is, if he doesn't know what it is, he wouldn't know if it was waterproofed - but I wouldn't be surprised if that is standard shipping procedure when shipping things overseas. At the very least, they might be transported in a waterproof container. Then again, maybe the smugglers don't really care about the reusability of their cargo in the case that they all sink and die. *shrugs* Still might be worth checking into.

[crizh]

As I understand it the smugglers are a third party that we know nothing about. Probably best to leave them be. No sense making enemies we don't have to.

[BlackHat]

As it is, we should probably be having our AR planning session IC. I think I'm out of questions, personally, but anyone else can feel free to ask some. After the meet, we can retire to the ship, in private, and really discuss how we're going to go about doing this.

[TheOneRonin]

I agree. We can work out the execution details once we've closed the deal. Des's only real concern here is the number of unknowns, and the fact that we won't have a lot of options in regards to when/where we strike. That's why he's asked for more money.

[BlackHat]

Going away for the weekend, and won't be able to post until Tuesday (probably). That'll at least give everyone else a change to weigh-in, then, if nobody else has stepped up to the plate, I'll have Carter bring up any unvoiced concerns. In terms of negotiation, don't expect much of a bump, though. Carter is more of a rigger than a face. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He certainly won't complain if someone else, who knows how to sweet-talk high-rollers like Kurita, wants to take the reigns on this conversation - but he'll suffice if we don't have someone like that in the crew. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Method]

Are you guys still out there? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If anyone (Blackhat?) wants to post a negotiation roll please do so, otherwise I'm going to wrap up the meet (finally) so we can move forward.

[BlackHat]

Going to post another OOC comment to go along with this negotiation. If anyone else jumps in with somethign to say IC, feel free to post teamwork rolls (and roll your own contribution to my roll). Otherwise, I am happy to move on.

http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/1665802/ (3 hits)

[pragma]

Also still here, Guy just hasn't had too much to add for a while.

[BlackHat]

Not really sure what Bart's comment about Ms Kitty, or thumb-motion means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Is he giving Carter a thumbs-down?

[Method]

I wasn't too clear on that either. I think he is describing the ol' hand = gun gesture?