How often do you wear camo? Options

[O'Donnell Heir]

True - but that was a highly specific suit for a very specific purpose. For that matter, he could have sprawled out under a tarp with the same color pattern and nobody overhead would have been able to distinguish the man-shaped outline beneath.

If he'd been stopped in the street and searched, he'd have had a helluva time explaining the suit versus, say, a gray painter's dropcloth.

-Siege

Well, isn't that what a ghillie suit is? Highly specialized for a specific area? After all, you use local foliage and items from the immediate area of your roost to make it.

*snort* Another complaint about ACUs - what, in the hell, do they blend with? The digital pattern is supposed to defeat electronic sensors, but the projected hostiles for the near future aren't going to be using that kind of technology for a while.

As you say, too much politics and not enough honest assessment and implementation.

-Siege

Funny you should mention that as the latest cammo produced, ironically the ABUs used by the airforce and not the army, have resistance to detection from infrared as well as their normal optics protection. Of course, the trade off is that it's a bit of a pain to wear.

[O'Donnell Heir]

Hrm. can't seem to find the delete button for my double post... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

This post has been edited by O'Donnell Heir: Jul 27 2008, 08:07 PM

[Siege]

Well, isn't that what a ghillie suit is? Highly specialized for a specific area? After all, you use local foliage and items from the immediate area of your roost to make it.

Yes - but the catch is, with a traditional ghillie suit, you're out in the woods (so to speak) and away from casual human contact. Any human contact you encounter will likely shoot first and ask questions later. So it really doesn't matter if you have an obvious pink elephant under one arm. And your suit is effective over a wide geographic area, versus just a rooftop.

By comparison, if you're trying to infiltrate and exfiltrate (I don't even know if that's a word) an urban area with lots of potential witnesses, you want to avoid anything that draws attention leading to your detainment and interrogation.

The "urban ghillie" from the show was highly specialized - but absurdly so, in my opinion. It would be like making a ghillie suit to blend into an oasis - mind you, there's only one oasis in a hundred miles in any direction. Sure, you're camouflaged in that oasis, but once you leave the highly localized area, you stand out like...well...a pink elephant.

-Siege

[Siege]

Actually, I remember being told the ACUs were supposed to be IR resistant or somesuch in Basic - hence the issues with cleaning, but let me find an official quote on that point.

-Siege

Edit: http://www.armedforcesmcss.us/cart.php?tar...;category_id=48

Look at the blurb about NIR.

I'll poke around and see if I can find anything a tad more definitive.

[VagabondStar]

Exfiltrate is a word. It is the opposite of infiltrate.

Hence the "Exfiltration Point" in a planned assault on a building, (usually located in or around the marshaling area).

[VagabondStar]

. It doesn't make much sense for Shadowrunners to wear Cammo except in neighbourhoods where it'll blend in with the crowd, not the street scenes.

Agreed. The best urban cammo for a shadowrunner is whatever matches the crowd; be it street, tres, or corporate chic.

---
Para's a Canadian Company? Wow.

[Siege]

Exfiltrate is a word. It is the opposite of infiltrate.

Hence the "Exfiltration Point" in a planned assault on a building, (usually located in or around the marshaling area).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exfiltrate

I know that's how the word is used, but it isn't an actual word by Webster.

-Siege

[Shiloh]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exfiltrate

I know that's how the word is used, but it isn't an actual word by Webster.

-Siege

Webster needs to catch up with the times. "Exfil" has been in military usage for several decades, if the military nonfiction I've read is anything to go by.

[Siege]

Honestly, that's the only place I've seen it - I've yet to see it any of the FMs and similar doctrinal material I've read or heard it used by any of the more experienced troops in my unit.

I'm not saying you're wrong - I just can't say you're right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege

[psychophipps]

Honestly, that's the only place I've seen it - I've yet to see it any of the FMs and similar doctrinal material I've read or heard it used by any of the more experienced troops in my unit.

I'm not saying you're wrong - I just can't say you're right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege

Probably because it's more for a high-speed/low-drag tactical shorthand than an actual strict military term. Is it easier to yell "Exfil to RP!" or "Proceed along the previously planned exfiltration route to our previously designated rallying point!" while your nine-man SOG team is running for their lives and getting converged upon by 1000+ NVA regulars in the jungles of Laos/Cambodia?

So, in reality, you're both right.

[Ed_209a]

Agreed. The best urban cammo for a shadowrunner is whatever matches the crowd; be it street, tres, or corporate chic.

Reminds me of a scene from Rogue Warrior where the characters infiltrated a US Navy base wearing... wait for it...

Navy blue sweatsuits with "NAVY" in big white letters.

They hopped the fence near sundown, then just formed up and started jogging on the first road they came to.

By becoming just another group of sailors jogging after work, they became invisible.

When it turned dark, they turned the sweatsuits inside out, and blended into the darkness.

Many admirals were embarrassed that night.

[Shiloh]

Honestly, that's the only place I've seen it - I've yet to see it any of the FMs and similar doctrinal material I've read or heard it used by any of the more experienced troops in my unit.

I'm not saying you're wrong - I just can't say you're right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege

Heh. Obviously I respect your currency in military circles... It's entirely possible that it's a UK thing; I can't give an accurate citation, but my most recent reading in the area was about the SAS, so maybe it's just them that have adopted it. No reason jargon has to be universal across the world, or even between regiments... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[psychophipps]

Heh. Obviously I respect your currency in military circles... It's entirely possible that it's a UK thing; I can't give an accurate citation, but my most recent reading in the area was about the SAS, so maybe it's just them that have adopted it. No reason jargon has to be universal across the world, or even between regiments... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"Exfil" is a common term in US SpecWar circles as well. "Recce", however, is pretty much a Brit thing.

[CanRay]

Para's a Canadian Company? Wow.

It's out of Toronto, Ontario.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm, Recce, it's what's for breakfast!

[VagabondStar]

So has anyone ever constructed a "Hide" to accomplish a shadowrun?

[Drogos]

I tried. We ended up deaded.

[psychophipps]

So has anyone ever constructed a "Hide" to accomplish a shadowrun?

Not really. If the sniper is smart, they'll just use a suppressor anyways which means that muzzle flash and noise is largely a non-issue anyway.

[CanRay]

More than sniping as a reason to set up a "Hide". Stakeout is another reason.

Put up a Hide, get a stack of self-heating MREs, bottles of water, and a bulk bottle of Long Haul.

Or a place to stash emergency supplies. Put the "Hide" someplace that gets little, if any, travel (Like old and forgotten Maintence Rooms), and there you go.

[psychophipps]

More than sniping as a reason to set up a "Hide". Stakeout is another reason.

Put up a Hide, get a stack of self-heating MREs, bottles of water, and a bulk bottle of Long Haul.

Or a place to stash emergency supplies. Put the "Hide" someplace that gets little, if any, travel (Like old and forgotten Maintence Rooms), and there you go.

A "Stakeout" is short-term police surveillance waiting for a crime to happen. If you need a big bottle of Long Haul, are setting up a hide, and loading it with water and MREs than you're in for long-term surveillance.

That said, it really is better to just get another office, house, or apartment in the area to do this type of stuff (even sniper hides) from. This way walking in and out of the place, getting "delivery" of supplies, and your crew cycling around as shifts change will raise a lot less suspicion.

[Sir_Psycho]

Well sure, but when else do Shadowrunner's get time to go on a swell camping trip.

[CanRay]

When poaching in the NAN for Talismonger-Specialist Fixers to pay off their debts?

[VagabondStar]

I wonder if future infiltration tactics and spooky stealth teams will be taught or equipped to deal with astral surveillance - and I mean the mundane members.

[CanRay]

Depends on how disposable the group is.

[VagabondStar]

friendly bacteria laden camo-netting?

[Siege]

friendly bacteria laden camo-netting?

Actually, that's not an inherently bad idea. Liquid nutrients and a synthetic creeping ivy vine woven together might work as well. However, a blob of organic material in a deserted concrete parking lot would still merit a curious inspection by a patrolling mage, so it's a fine line.

The hard core spec ops folks probably would engage in simsense training designed to portray what astral appears like to the Awakened so they could practice and appreciate what areas of focus they need to be concerned with.

Certain environments are almost certainly easier to hide in than others.

-Siege