Accessories and Modifications and slots Options

[psychophipps]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Well my rating for "pat downs" is not in the league of LEO's but I would easily find a full sized pistol on your person, but like the LEO's your hands are in the open and in a exposed position, and the pat down is not finished until any dancing around on your part is done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

No small objects do not always have to be rectally inserted, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) IG I have "sneaked" two detonators past a pat down and a scan.

Cyberwear based/installed weapons are not with in the detection ability of a pat down, now various scanners give in one form or another to have a chance to detect same.

Weapons scanners generally are faster than pat downs. Weapons scanners can be "Sneaked" past by a properly configured/made/modded weapon.

Pat downs would have a good chance to detect a weapon that got past a scanner, but then again one small enough and configured/modded/made can get past a pat down.

WMS

As for hold-out pistols and no slots for laser sights, I give you this:

Ruger LCP laser sight

Pat downs are rather easy to get around as long as you can make the weapon feel like something normal. Many pocket holsters for snubbies and small-frame autos are designed to make the outline of the gun look like a wallet, as an example. Just put a wallet-shaped stiff bit of leather over the top of the weapon towards the outside of your pocket and any pat-down will think it's a wallet unless they also heft the "wallet" in the pocket to be sure.
Another trick is a Smart Carry-type holster where the weapon is behind your belt around your general crotch area. Just place the handle of the weapon behind your belt buckle and unless they really give you a good grope then you'll pass muster without much worry.
The main issue of the pat-down is how serious you are about it and the level of training of the searcher. They're going for a "plain feel" for contraband and such (in the example of police) and how thorough they are can vary widely based upon the threat level they're getting from you or from the job. You go to a concert, as an example, and that is barely anything. I could get a gun into a no-detector concert without any issue with a bit of planning. A police officer, in the interest of not getting dead, will hopefully give a much more thorough and systematic search that will come up with much more information.

+2 dice modifier for actual systematic search training would probably make sense in this regard. Public and corp-sec cops, bodyguards, and tactical units would be your most common examples for this.

[WearzManySkins]

As for hold-out pistols and no slots for laser sights, I give you this:

Ruger LCP laser sight

Pat downs are rather easy to get around as long as you can make the weapon feel like something normal. Many pocket holsters for snubbies and small-frame autos are designed to make the outline of the gun look like a wallet, as an example. Just put a wallet-shaped stiff bit of leather over the top of the weapon towards the outside of your pocket and any pat-down will think it's a wallet unless they also heft the "wallet" in the pocket to be sure.
Another trick is a Smart Carry-type holster where the weapon is behind your belt around your general crotch area. Just place the handle of the weapon behind your belt buckle and unless they really give you a good grope then you'll pass muster without much worry.
The main issue of the pat-down is how serious you are about it and the level of training of the searcher. They're going for a "plain feel" for contraband and such (in the example of police) and how thorough they are can vary widely based upon the threat level they're getting from you or from the job. You go to a concert, as an example, and that is barely anything. I could get a gun into a no-detector concert without any issue with a bit of planning. A police officer, in the interest of not getting dead, will hopefully give a much more thorough and systematic search that will come up with much more information.

+2 dice modifier for actual systematic search training would probably make sense in this regard. Public and corp-sec cops, bodyguards, and tactical units would be your most common examples for this.

The first weapon is smaller than a full sized pistol.

The second method is under properly configured/made/modded weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Shame I wear Braces rather than a Belt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Interesting note, what you listed in making the weapon feel like something else you listed/posted, no "palming" skill is needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) But shows what proper preparation can do. Kudos.

WMS

[psychophipps]

The first weapon is smaller than a full sized pistol.

The second method is under properly configured/made/modded weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Shame I wear Braces rather than a Belt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Interesting note, what you listed in making the weapon feel like something else you listed/posted, no "palming" skill is needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) But shows what proper preparation can do. Kudos.

WMS

I see the second as simply being a "Concealment Holster" rather than an actual weapon mod. Well made IWB (In the WaistBand) holsters and a well-made OWB (Out of WaistBand) holsters will also count for this specification with a cover garment used with the latter.
Special quick-draw type holsters are designed for quick access and easy draw more than concealment so I feel that SR4 did it just right in this regard. Kudos to the design team for this one.

Other good potential mods for weapons are tritium or similar glowing Night Sights (-1 dice to "Shooting in Darkness" penalties) and Collimating/Reflex Sights (treat the first simple action of aiming as two simple actions of aiming).

[Zaranthan]

Interesting note, what you listed in making the weapon feel like something else you listed/posted, no "palming" skill is needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) But shows what proper preparation can do. Kudos.

I'm fairly certain that even if somebody handed me that stuff, I couldn't sneak a saturday night special past a blind man with one arm. Heck, with my luck, even if I Edged the roll, the darn holster would probably shake loose as I walked because I don't know how to set the clasp by feel. Knowing how to arrange all that so somebody who knows what they're looking for won't find it isn't common knowledge.

I'd say this falls under needing both the skills and the gear to do the job. 14 dice for rappelling won't get you far without a rope, and a 10k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) climber's kit won't operate the pulleys without a skilled operator.

[psychophipps]

I'm fairly certain that even if somebody handed me that stuff, I couldn't sneak a saturday night special past a blind man with one arm. Heck, with my luck, even if I Edged the roll, the darn holster would probably shake loose as I walked because I don't know how to set the clasp by feel. Knowing how to arrange all that so somebody who knows what they're looking for won't find it isn't common knowledge.

I'd say this falls under needing both the skills and the gear to do the job. 14 dice for rappelling won't get you far without a rope, and a 10k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) climber's kit won't operate the pulleys without a skilled operator.

And you would be quite wrong, my friend. A decent holster/belt setup will allow just about anyone to effectively carry a concealed firearm or knife without 99% of people noticing.
There are two reasons for this. First, a good holster with a good belt will keep the weapon close to your body which will decrease it's outline in relation to your own silhouette. Second, most people are little bliss-ninnies that have no real clue what is going on around them. I open carry on a regular basis and maybe one person in twenty seems to notice my full-size Glock on my right hip or my two 17-round magazines on my left hip even when I'm wearing a white t-shirt and tan shorts that contrast quite well against my black pistol and holster/magazine carrier. To further give you an idea, I regularly see pictures of people carrying full-size pistols well concealed with nothing more complex than a good holster/belt and a t-shirt. Add to this that a good holster can't help but be correctly fitted, there is only one way to snap a leather loop around your belt or slide the belt through the belt holes after all, and you're good to go.
The biggest issue, and this is where most criminals screw up, is that people new to carrying weapons will give tells about their carrying status. They will touch the weapon frequently. Pull their shirt bottoms down over a holster. Walk funny because one hip weighs more than the other (which is why you should balance your weapon with an opposite-hip magazine or two). Hike up their pants because they have a sucky Wal-Mart belt. Let the grip get shifted between the weapon and your side. Not use a holster at all so it's always wiggling around on them. Etc. Etc. Cops and other security-types are trained to look for these tells along with other dress and body language clues to separate the sheep from the wolves.

[Zaranthan]

Wow, good answer. My security checkpoints just got a lot more realistic. Thanks.

To keep banging my head against the wall, though, would you say that being aware of such tells and having the discipline to restrain them might fall under the purview of Palming, given that that's the context it's purported to cover? (Although, perhaps it should be linked to Intuition or Charisma in that usage.)

[psychophipps]

Wow, good answer. My security checkpoints just got a lot more realistic. Thanks.

To keep banging my head against the wall, though, would you say that being aware of such tells and having the discipline to restrain them might fall under the purview of Palming, given that that's the context it's purported to cover? (Although, perhaps it should be linked to Intuition or Charisma in that usage.)

The other thing to keep track off is that fact that it's a security checkpoint. Yeah, it's obvious but you have to think the way that a bored, typically-underpaid guard thinks. Your station has has a big "NO WEAPONS, BITCHES!" sign up. A big ol' nasty-looking scanner gateway that is obvious to everyone. "Who would really give it a go when it's so obvious it's a bad idea?", you're thinking as another blue hair with a fancy silver hand mirror sets off the alarm...again. You then get some yahoo looking like every other yahoo walking through with some Hugh Jass rodeo belt buckle and a harried look on his face. You run the wand after the gate goes off and it only beeps at the belt buckle so you just might let it slide this time...

Palming would only count if the guard got "hands on", IMO.

[Rad]

I appreciate having my question answered, but I think people are getting a little confused about what the palming skill actually means.

IRL, "palming" doesn't just mean "hiding things in your palm", it is also a general term for various "slight of hand" maneuvers. Again, the term "hand" is used, but it doesn't mean just hiding things in your hands. Ever hear the phrase "nothing up my sleeve"?

Palming is about using subtle muscle control to distract or disguise movement. Remember, when you palm that datachip off the counter, you aren't just grabbing it and making it disappear into your fist, you're also controlling your entire arm and body movements so it looks like you just walked by. Hiding the object in your palm wouldn't do much good if everybody saw you reach for it.

As an example: Say you're in a corporate lobby. Your inside guy has left a keycard laying on the table next to some magazines, but on the other side of the room is the security desk and the guard's already giving you the eye. You don't want to take the time to sit down and pretend you're reading a magazine, especially since that would mean turning your back on Mr. Corpsec, so you casually stroll by, with the table on your left and the guard on your right.

As you pass by the table, you reach out with your left hand, using your body to block the guard's view and carefully eliminating any tell-tale changes in body movement, snatch the keycard off the desk, and keep moving.

Then you stop a few feet later, and casually put your left hand into your pocket (depositing the card) while with your right you pull out your commlink to check the time. Swearing under your breath like you've just been stood up, you turn around and walk out the door. Whatever suspicions the guard may have had, he's relieved to see you go without pulling anything on his shift. And he knows you didn't do anything besides stand in the lobby and pace, because he was watching you the entire time... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)