HELP! (cant find the relevant section anywhere), Max cyber atm str and a must to have cyber torso.. ? Options

[Nkari]

Was it in 3rd or in 4rth that beoynd your natural stat you needed a cyber torso for a full cyber arm ?? I cant find the relevant section in augmentation or in the Core.. help ?


Incoherent and tons of spelling errors.. I know.. but Im having a brainfart atm..

[Stahlseele]

there's rules for both versions, but in SR4 you need a cybertorso if you wanna boost ANY attribute of your arm ABOVE a +3 . . but with augmentation you can get a human arm with all 6's in the attributes and NOT need a Torso to use that one and THEN up the attributes to 9 without needing a torso . . to go to STR 10 you would need a torso again . . at least, that's how i understood that particular ruling . . i ain't all that sure about NEEDING the Torso in SR3, but there was the point of the upgrades costing less essence and money with the torso . .

[Nkari]

So I was not dreaming then.. could I get a page reference, cause Im blind atm.. =)

And dont bother about 3rd edition.. I was just bring that up to see if I had my editions mixed up or not.. =)

thanx tho for confirming my suspisions.. =)

[Stahlseele]

[ Spoiler ]

Aug Page 44 says:

Customized Cyberlimbs
Standard cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility
attributes of 3 (see Cyberlimbs, p. 335, SR4). While these basic
attributes are adequate for the average human or elf, they are underpowered
for the natural physiques of many dwarfs, orks, and
trolls—as well as exceptionally large and physical fit humans and
elves. Customization allow cyberlimb attribute ratings to be increased
by tailoring the limb to user’s overall size and musculature.
Since these customized cyberlimbs need to be designed to fit their
user’s body, they are more expensive than the basic models and are
not covered by medical insurances.
Customized cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and
Agility attributes that may exceed the standard cyberlimb attribute
rating of 3. Each customized cyberlimb may have a starting
Body, Strength, and Agility attribute of up to the character’s
natural attribute maximum (see pp. 62 and 73, SR4). Each point
of increment to an attribute above 3 raises the limb’s Availability
rating by 1 point and adds 1,500¥ to the final cost, but does not
take up any Capacity. Further increases above the natural attribute
maximum and up to the augmented maximum must be handled as
cyberlimb enhancements, with the standard Capacity and nuyen
costs (see Cyberlimb Enhancements, p. 335, SR4).
All other stats of customized cyberlimbs are the same as for
standard cyberlimbs (see Cyberlimbs table, p. 336, SR4).

SR4 CoreBook Page 335 says:

Cyberlimb Enhancements: All cyberlimbs come with
Body, Strength, and Agility attributes of 3. These values can
only be augmented by cyberlimb enhancements—enhancements
from other cyber- or bioware systems have no effect.
Cyberlimb enhancements use up the Capacity of the cyberlimb
they enhance. The bonus to the enhanced value equals the rating
of the enhancement. Only characters with a cybertorso can
have cyberlimb enhancements with a rating higher than 3.

and i read that as meaning you can get a human arm with all 9's across the board without needing a torso . . .
maybe there's somehwere another hint at me being wrong, it has happened before, but at least now you know
(and knowing is half the battle) where to look for your interpretation of this very issue *snickers*

[Drogos]

Not having my main book handy, I don't have the page number. I know it's in the section on cyberlimbs in the BBB. I'm not sure how that applies to the customizeable cyberlimb rules from Arsenal though.

[Nkari]

Geez.. ive been reading those sections but not finding torso anywhere.. brainfart ftw..

Thanks mates.. and yeah stahl it does look like you can have aug max without cyber torso.. but somehow I would like to have the arm not go above 1.5 over the stats of the body without the torso..

I mean you can have a 3 str/bod human with str 9 arm.. lifting anything that requires str 9 will put a humungus stress on the body and will probably break it.. But with say muscle augmentation on the same lvls, you agument the whole body.. not one isolated part of it..

So Im leaning towards over natural maximum you need torso for arms or the 1.5 as a houserule .. legs Im not so sure tho..

[Stahlseele]

depends on how you're lifting . . the arm includes the shoulder-joint which is then attached to the torso, be the torso natural or not with strong bonds . . if you're trying to bench-press something, str9-arms would be pretty much okay . . if you're trying to lift something heavy from the ground up? yeah no, averaged str of natural and augmented body-parts . . because lifting like that is a whole body torture and not simple arm . . for punching? again, STR9 Arm . . form usual close-combat? averaged again . . for holding onto something? STR9 and able to lock your arm/hand in a certain position, so you can just grab onto the helicopter and tell your arm to stay like that and won't need to do anything to make sure you don't fall off . . no losing grip there O.o

[Tarantula]

Gotta agree with Stahlseele here. If you find them having one str 9 arm is problematic, make sure that you use their averaged strength for all limbs (head, torso, both arms, both legs), so in your case, (3+3+3+3+3+9)/6=4 for things like lifting overall.

For just a punch or whatever, go ahead and use their single limb if they state they want to attack with just that limb. (As the BBB says.)