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Jul 30 2008, 12:53 PM
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#51
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
Bashful- when it comes to the gym, I think it is more of a guy thing. Whether you think it or not, guys seem to all be preening, like on some cave man level you are all watching each other to see who is the big cheese to get to pick among the females. I think this is something seriously hard wired into the male mindset. On your own you might be more reasonable but when there is more than one male there or a female to show off for. You are in competition. "Am I stronger than him? Is he doing better than me? Has she seen me?" and might push it more than you should. (At the gym Snow Fox and I go to there's one guy she calls Barney Rubble because he seems to be doing this sort of posing more than anyone else.)
Women do not have this. We are not hard wired to BE the toughest bitch in the herd but will want to attract the biggestest toughest male to provide strong children. So we can work more carefully about what we need than useless strutting. We can push each other a little but it is with the sense of helping a friend "You can do it! just a little more." instead of out doing a friend. |
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Jul 30 2008, 01:46 PM
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#52
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
If I am in doubt about the authenticity of a fellow "female" Shadowrunner I ask them to go shopping (if female myself) or start bragging with sex stories (if male). I'm curious, so you're thinking the other female isn't actually female and you either invite her out shopping or tell sex stories as a test. What is the 'appropriate' response to this? |
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Jul 30 2008, 05:44 PM
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#53
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Bashful- when it comes to the gym, I think it is more of a guy thing. Whether you think it or not, guys seem to all be preening, like on some cave man level you are all watching each other to see who is the big cheese to get to pick among the females. I think this is something seriously hard wired into the male mindset. On your own you might be more reasonable but when there is more than one male there or a female to show off for. You are in competition. "Am I stronger than him? Is he doing better than me? Has she seen me?" and might push it more than you should. (At the gym Snow Fox and I go to there's one guy she calls Barney Rubble because he seems to be doing this sort of posing more than anyone else.) Women do not have this. We are not hard wired to BE the toughest bitch in the herd but will want to attract the biggestest toughest male to provide strong children. So we can work more carefully about what we need than useless strutting. We can push each other a little but it is with the sense of helping a friend "You can do it! just a little more." instead of out doing a friend. A few thoughts on this post. Firstly, I believe that there is actually a big reigional difference in terms of how people behave at the gym. I grew up in New York City and the way people work out is very different than how they work out in Las Vegas where I am now. In NYC people usually don't work out as hard and there isn't as much heart going into it; it's so they can look OK for the job. In Las Vegas many people have serious athletic pursuits such as cycling or other outdoor activities and the people work out much harder and are developing functional levels of fitness more often than I've seen in NYC. Also, lots of people in Las Vegas are employed in some sort of sexy role (i.e. cocktail waitress, dancer, etc) so even to look OK for their job they have to be in better shape than a NYC yuppie who merely needs to not look fat in a suit. IMO reigionalism plays an enormous role in gym behavior that cannot be discounted. Secondly, I might be wrong, but I gather the "You can do it! just a little more" quote was in the context of encouraging a friend during exercise? With many men who are big into weightlifting and bodybuilding (I'm not) they will usually try to work out with the heaviest possible weights to build big muscles, and they will usually do the exercises to the point of muscle failure, meaning they do them until their arms or legs can't move any more having been totally exhausted. Usually this is done with a partner who acts as a "spot", meaning that when you literally can no longer move the weight, he physically helps you complete your set by applying just enough help to let you still barely move the weight. At the same time since it's mentally difficult to push yourself that hard in many cases your "spot" or some other friends might scream encouragement. My point is that's less showing off or preening, and more a specific activity designed for a specific type of workout result. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm wondering a little bit if perhaps you saw this sort of activity and figured it was strutting of some kind, when in fact it is not, since you mentioned both partner vocalization and "push it more than you should" in your paragraph. I could be wrong of course and just missed your point. It's worth noting that even though I'm not into bodybuilding, when I work out with weights I still try to get to the point of muscle failure each time I do weights. Even though the weights I use aren't really big enough for me to build enormous muscles (i.e. I'll use only ~22 pounds on a single bicep or tricep when I'm using free weights, or 50 pounds for both biceps or both triceps if I'm using a weight machine) I still try to get to the point near the end of my workout that I literally can't move the weights no matter how much I strain, and I'll try to do this at least twice a week. It's the same way with cardio, really. If you want to get stronger you have to push yourself. When I go running on a track I just run until I want to vomit, and then I stop. Not much point to doing it less than that because you wouldn't be strengthening yourself. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:20 PM
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#54
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I live in Pennslvania now. There are guys at the gym who are way over developed. Past sexy to creepy.
I dropped the weight I gained from my first child and so our work outs are for cardio and tone. More reps with less weight builds tone more than bulk. The 'you can do it" is more for another 10 reps than another 10 pounds. The cadio stuff is all that lovely programable high tech stuff with grips to meassure your heart rate and stuff. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:30 PM
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#55
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 640 Joined: 8-October 07 Member No.: 13,611 |
Bashful- when it comes to the gym, I think it is more of a guy thing. Whether you think it or not, guys seem to all be preening, like on some cave man level you are all watching each other to see who is the big cheese to get to pick among the females. I think this is something seriously hard wired into the male mindset. There was a study not too long ago where men and women were shown photos of men, specifically pro athletes, and they surreptitiously tracked their eye movements--specifically noting where they first looked. Men overwhelmingly, and without regard to sexuality, first noticed the athlete's genitals. BTW, there was an article in yesterday's NY Times about an economic study on the costs of revenge/vengeance/etc., and it turns out that after they studied a massive data set compiled from the UN, it turns out that as a group women are more vengeful than men. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:43 PM
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#56
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
There was a study not too long ago where men and women were shown photos of men, specifically pro athletes, and they surreptitiously tracked their eye movements--specifically noting where they first looked. Men overwhelmingly, and without regard to sexuality, first noticed the athlete's genitals. I don't believe that study was limited to pictures of athletes, but just people in general (and if memory serves, some animals too). |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:49 PM
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#57
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Bushido Cowgirl ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
BTW, there was an article in yesterday's NY Times about an economic study on the costs of revenge/vengeance/etc., and it turns out that after they studied a massive data set compiled from the UN, it turns out that as a group women are more vengeful than men. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ic.gif) ...forsaken daughter is watching you, daddy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) --KK [the character] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ooc.gif) |
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Jul 31 2008, 03:35 AM
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#58
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
The cadio stuff is all that lovely programable high tech stuff with grips to meassure your heart rate and stuff. And the challenge with that is figuring ahead of time how many minutes at what level will leave you wanting to puke once the time has elapsed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 1 2008, 01:57 PM
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#59
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
You type in your age, weight (both are subject to shading here i guess) and which course you want for how long, but the gym limits time to 30 minutes on a machine.
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Aug 1 2008, 11:09 PM
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#60
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Bushido Cowgirl ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
..hmmm possibly a cool way to do in a bloated senior corp exec by hacking his cardio workout machine:
Age_ 22 Weight_ 80kg Scenario_ Olympic Marathon |
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Aug 1 2008, 11:32 PM
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#61
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,336 Joined: 24-February 08 From: Albuquerque, New Mexico Member No.: 15,706 |
I would just like to say:
[Insert Random Noun] of DOOM!!! |
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Aug 5 2008, 12:54 AM
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#62
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
OK, after having read through this thread and thought about the contents over a few days, I have come up with a "sample" female character geared towards the idea of portraying a more "realistic" female character. Let me know if you think the character is plausible, or whacked. And, uh, SR3 partial statting because it's the only ruleset I know.
Character Name: Sheila Sample Runner Handle: Appetizers (because you sample appetizers, see? Hur hur...) B 4 S 4 I 6 W 4 Q 4 C 5 R 5 Init 5 + 1d6 Edge: College Education Flaw: Hung Out To Dry Cyberware: Datajack Skills: Etiquette 5 Pistols 4 Rifles 4 Shotguns 4 Electronics 6 Electronics B/R 6 Computers 6 Computers B/R 6 Biotech 6 Lockpicking 4 Athletics 4 Unarmed Combat 4 Negotiation 5 Intimidation 5 Survival 4 Languages: English Spanish Japanese Mandarin Knowlege Skills: Electronic surveillance 6 Forensics 6 Anatomy 6 Corporate politics 6 Academic politics (feminist academic politics) 4 (6) Chemistry 6 Psychology 6 Corporate security procedures 6 Seattle neighborhoods 5 Military theory 4 Computer network hacking 6 Elven wines 6 UCAS Law 4 Clay sculpture 6 Musical performance (electric guitar) 5 (7) Singing 5 Dance (kata) 4 (6) Painting (impressionist style) 5 (7) EQ (abbreviated list) Browning Hi-Power Defiance T 250 shotty some decent cyerdeck or other Ranger Arms suitcase sniper rifle some designer armor clothing Electronics kit Biotech kit Background: Sheila Sample was originally raised by her well-off corporate parents. She inherited a strong natural intelligence and did well academically but she also had something of an artistic temperment and tended to act out physically on her emotions. She often got in trouble for fighting but had difficulty controlling this behavior due to the strength of her emotions. A contributing issue was her unusual personal moral code which was created by a combination of her eccentric artist's world view with a high degree of intellectual abstraction about principles and taking principles to logical extremes. Sheila felt that modern corporate urban living simultaneously changed vital and dangerous human animals into chattel, and without the exhiliration of the physical to balance the victories of the mind true happiness would be unattainable. Due to this view if she ever failed to beat someone up (i.e. she got beat up instead, or she got in trouble before the beatdown could be completed) she would also attempt to undermine the object of her wroth socially by whatever means necessary including social manipulation, public humiliation, or computer hacking. In college Sheila's personal ideology drove her to be a truly well rounded individual, seriously pursuing numerous academic pursuits including both humanities and sciences. She didn't feel she had the time to join an organized sports team but took extracirricular courses in various martial arts, firearms, camping and survival, and so forth. Being a highly motivated individual she spent nearly all her time engaged in learning and attempting to apply the information. Her official major was English because it was easy for her to meet the requirements of that major. Sheila did not feel very enthusiastic about joining the corporate world but she instead managed to become an English professor after completing a great deal of schooling. She gave as good as she got in the world of backstabbing academic politics, but her piece de resistance, an elaborate sexual harrassment accusation against the department head, was proven to be verifiably false and she was ostracized and kicked out of the academic world. In a rage, Sheila ambushed the department head when he was walking down the street in the evening and killed him silently with a knife, and after her red haze cleared Sheila realized she had to flee her previous life. Although it was difficult going at first Sheila was able to apply her multifaceted intelligent mind to become a shadowrunner. Her teammates appreciate her wide range of technical abilities and prodigious background knowledge (she keeps learning new things each day) which often can come in handy on a run. Sheila's attitude towards violence when she's not aroused is very pragmatic. In the abstract she does not like the idea of unnecessarily taking human life and usually plans to minimize carnage on runs for both ethical and practical reasons. However, once she feels threatened or gets angry she is likely to lash out with lethal force. Furthermore, she tends to look down on people who work for corporations, seeing them as underdeveloped and pathetic individuals. EDIT: Added artistic hobbies to knowledge skills |
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Aug 5 2008, 03:26 PM
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#63
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I imagine that as long as I've asked the above question, I should also ask the same question about the female protagonist portrayed in this story that was linked in the OP: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=13334
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Aug 6 2008, 09:21 PM
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#64
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 640 Joined: 8-October 07 Member No.: 13,611 |
Speaking of antisocial violence committed by women, there was an interesting piece in the paper on Sunday about female suicide bombers.
I'll just list the more interesting aspects gathered on events since 1981. All lines are quoted verbatim.
I find the author's study to be particularly interesting since it reflects one of the more common aspects of my major female characters. They are more likely to be nationalistic, and defined their martial experience and background within defense of nation or community at a macro-level. Combat and/or espionage backgrounds tend to be exclusively government-based (although that is also done in part because there is a measurable correlation to institutional age and quality/quantity of success, which I exploit) They tend to be very specific in their goals, and do not seek random violence for the sake of it simply because the effects tend to be less useful in a larger purpose. They have little problem engaging in any sort of action, but individually they have trended towards very specific acts of pre-meditated violence rarely based upon emotional impulse. |
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Aug 7 2008, 12:42 AM
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#65
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 17-April 07 Member No.: 11,473 |
Don't overthink it. That's all I can say. I've played a female a few times and every time I did so it was well recieved. I would get the roleplaying bonus when available. I never once put critical thought into what made my female char female. It helps a lot to do it over an IRC roleplaying session though, no faces to throw one off. Here's what I can say about pointers. Am I a spell slinger in real life? No. Am I a mercenary who constantly puts his life on the line for a little bit of nuyen living in the year 2070? No. yet I can play those facets well, female is just another minor detail. I mean supposing they had the demographics of a shadowrunner male wizard in denver, and the demographics of a 20something utterly mundane woman in NY in this day and age, I'm pretty sure male wizard shadowrunners are going to be far different in behavoir to me then the women my age in NY. Every aspect of your character seperates him or her from you on some level, you probably haven't given it as much thought. The gender issue always seems to inflate itself.
I have not seen a woman play a man poorly yet actually I've seen a woman play a man only 2 or 3 times. I have however seen men play women poorly. And in situations like that the problem was either. A.) He wasn't trying to be a character he was trying to be a gender, and he reaked of ham in the process by overdoing it. B.) He never really roleplayed in the first place he was always playing himself. ANd now he's roleplaying himself yet agian, as female. So now, instead of getting mental iamges of him dressed as a commando I"m now seeing him dressed as sailor moon and it's disturbing me. C.) He's enacting sexual fantasies and that also disturbs me. Here's how you address it. A.) Create a personality that just happens to be female. If the personality is believable when you look at it from the outside then the character should be viable. B.) Examine your past characters, if they all seem to be similar in retrospect, try making more divergent characters and building up a personality library. It will help you in future games, not just with playing other genders. C.) If you feel sexual touched on any level when thinking about your character, stop. For the love of God and all that is holy, stop. A key and crucial thing is to not overthink genders and to not try to quantify them. Everyone I know is different, therefore it is impossible to quantify and predict perfectly people's traits on something as simple as gender. So many things make up a person, gender is just one of them. On the topic of men and chocolate: I eat chocolate, my brother does, my other brother does, if all 3 of us are in the same house there is no chocolate because it has been eaten. One of my roomies kept stealing my chocolate too. I thought lust for chocolate was a universal trait. Also, a gal I know has suggested for added fun try playing someone who is dressed in drag as the opposite gender. Such as being a girl playing a man playing a girl. Or perhaps a man playing a man playing a girl, or any combination thereof. |
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Aug 8 2008, 02:18 AM
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#66
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 533 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In a hot tub, with lots of bubbles and champagne waiting for you. Member No.: 1,972 |
she sounds pretty hot woundy, but a word of catuion, delve too deeply into the female mind can lead to severe pyschosis as even women themselves don't know what makes them tick half the time. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you...
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Aug 8 2008, 04:18 PM
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#67
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
she sounds pretty hot woundy, but a word of catuion, delve too deeply into the female mind can lead to severe pyschosis as even women themselves don't know what makes them tick half the time. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you... I appreciate the comment, but were you referring to Sheila Sample, or the protagonist in that fiction I linked to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 8 2008, 04:20 PM
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#68
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 30-October 07 From: Sadly, NE Member No.: 13,962 |
I think he's referring to his intense misogyny. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
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Aug 10 2008, 04:51 PM
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#69
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
Wounded, when I look at the character, we're number crunching, the same stuff could almost verbatim be a guy. It all comes to how you play her once boots hit the ground.
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Aug 11 2008, 02:57 AM
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#70
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Wounded, when I look at the character, we're number crunching, the same stuff could almost verbatim be a guy. It all comes to how you play her once boots hit the ground. Ha ha, I was trying to emphasize the social networking/social awareness thing with the backstory, figuring that based on this discussion that might be more female. (Consider our mascluine example Lone Wolf McQuade, who is basically has negative social skills, like many archetypal male heroic figures.) But I guess I'd need more than just social networking and awarness, huh? Hmm, I guess I have to think about this some more... |
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Aug 11 2008, 05:03 AM
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#71
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
I think the best thing is to create a shadowrunner, as your main focus, with her being female as one of the things that affects the background, which in turn tweaks the skills. But it is only one aspect of the character. Think of more specific things than just her gender.
Was she one of the popular girls, or one of the wannabes who seethed with jealousy, or someone who found that whole scene silly? Did she have a loving family? Was she raised by a single mom, loving her mom but vowing never to let someone put her into a similar situation? Was she raised by a single father, becoming a daddy's girl and a bit of a tomboy? Was she born rich? Was she born in the barrens? Did she run away as a teen? Is she shy and insecure? Does she make friends easily? Is she a fearless eco-activist? Is she spoiled brat who is a coward whenever someone stands up to her bullying? Does she find sword fighting to be an art form? Does she consider her gun an ugly implement of killing, but one that she can use ruthlessly when she has to? Does she relish confrontation? Does she like to negotiate, even when it's a lost cause? Saying "This character is female" is like saying "This character is a street samurai". It's only a basic description, and the details all need to be worked out. Basically, once you have decided to make a character female, you still need to go through all of the questions that you would ask for a male character - what their family was like, where they got their skills, how they became shadowrunners, who their friends are, what they believe in, and so on. |
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Aug 11 2008, 04:54 PM
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#72
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I think the best thing is to create a shadowrunner, as your main focus, with her being female as one of the things that affects the background, which in turn tweaks the skills. But it is only one aspect of the character. Think of more specific things than just her gender. Was she one of the popular girls, or one of the wannabes who seethed with jealousy, or someone who found that whole scene silly? Did she have a loving family? Was she raised by a single mom, loving her mom but vowing never to let someone put her into a similar situation? Was she raised by a single father, becoming a daddy's girl and a bit of a tomboy? Was she born rich? Was she born in the barrens? Did she run away as a teen? Is she shy and insecure? Does she make friends easily? Is she a fearless eco-activist? Is she spoiled brat who is a coward whenever someone stands up to her bullying? Does she find sword fighting to be an art form? Does she consider her gun an ugly implement of killing, but one that she can use ruthlessly when she has to? Does she relish confrontation? Does she like to negotiate, even when it's a lost cause? Saying "This character is female" is like saying "This character is a street samurai". It's only a basic description, and the details all need to be worked out. Basically, once you have decided to make a character female, you still need to go through all of the questions that you would ask for a male character - what their family was like, where they got their skills, how they became shadowrunners, who their friends are, what they believe in, and so on. Wow, man, those were very evocative questions. I don't think I ever thought about that stuff for my characters period. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now, is it just me, or are those female-centric background questions? A lot of those are dealing with interpersonal relations, which is why I ask. Whereas if you look at male background stories in fiction and movies a lot of it has less to do with interpersonal relations of that type, and more to do with adverserial relations, revenge, that kind of thing. Just some examples: In "The Street Fighter", Sonny Chiba's character does have personal backstory about his father being executed by the Japanese Imperial Army, which explains his motivation to be able to defeat everyone in hand to hand combat and be the "hardest" man on the block. In "The Best of the Best", James Earl Jones' character is motivated by a sense of guilt over a death on the US TKD team during the last contest with Korea, and Phillip Rhee's character is motivated by a conflicting desire to avenge his brother but also his idealistic sense of restraint applied towards martial arts/physical force; you see revenge, guilt, and death as being the foundations of characer developments. In "Conan the Barbarian" against Conan's original motivation stems from the genocidal slaughter and enslavement of his people, although he eventually understands the bigger picture (i.e. the riddle of steel, and the fragility and preciousness of life) after his near-death experience on the Tree of Woe, and finally his motivation becomes philosophical (at the end of the film the princess bows down to Conan but Conan refuses to play the role of a god like Thulsa Doom had done). So we start with revenge but progress to the philosophical and highly personal motivation of the Nietzchian ubermensch including a rejection of deification and reverence. "Lone Wolf McQuade" is interesting because you do have the revenge motive come into play (J. J. McQuade must avenge Dakota, and the dead coyote) but you also have interpersonal relations working their way into the plot. This includes a romantic relationship, a nurturing relationship (teaching the rookie cop the rudiments of being a rugged ass-kicking powerhouse), and relationships of camraderie (the partnership with the black FBI man). So this is closer to the questions you've posed but again the underlying motivation is revenge and perhaps rage against society which has grown soft and out-of-touch with the realities faced by J. J. McQuade; perhaps this symbolism is driven home a little more by the fact that McQuade wears a Vietnam-era combat jacket during the film, identifying him as a misunderstood Vietnam veteran. So I guess my point is that a lot of background stories I see that are dealing with male protagonists tend to emphasize interpersonal relationships (i.e. relations with parents, from your example) less, but your questions are dealing with these things more. As such, would you consider your questions to be more geared towards female characters? If you were going to ask background questions of male characters, would they be more centered around revenge, deaths of friends/relatives, personal anger, and so on? Or, alternately, do you feel that your sample questions are best treated as universal questions? |
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Aug 12 2008, 06:07 PM
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#73
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I think what SF was trying to say is that guys can have social skills too and it is probably sexist to say that just because she is female she has social skills. As for playing 'female' like it was a characteristic I am not sure that would work. I do not think of myself as female, I just am. I can also be samurai. Do you think of yourself as 'male?'
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Aug 12 2008, 06:22 PM
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#74
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Do you think of yourself as 'male?' Well, yeah, I kind of do think of myself as male. I think it was a combination of developing gender identity during puberty, and also over the course of my life the odd friend/acquaintance mentioning that I behaved in a masculine manner, at least in terms of self-referential identity. Tied in with that also was the "male gamers repel females" sterotype that worked its way into my mind over years of gaming and which served to create a mental distinction between myself as a male gamer and females in general. And IIRC there was a least one dude I played Shadowrun with for years who usually made female characters who seemed to be expressing some aspect of his personality through those characters; he was one of the people who once commented on my being masculine. Besides for just self-referential stuff, I notice certain characteristics about females versus males that seem to hold pretty broadly. Like most females don't like physical fighting i.e. combative sports, full contact sparring. The people who do like that stuff are usually male. This explains the market for "women's self defense" as a watered down, sanitized, and condensed version of learning how to fight. This came up earlier in the thread, i.e. discussions about male and female relationships to physical combativeness. And with those rare, awesome, and precious females who do like combative sports and seriously participate the thread has covered how they tend to be extremely technical fighters compared to the male counterparts. So although it would be a little abstracted, somewhat exaggerated, and poetic, I might even classify deft bobbing and counter-punching in close quarters as a feminine way of fighting whereas I might classify alternating overhand power shots as a masculine way of fighting. There are also shared characteristics. Like both men and women like fast cars. I see lot of mustangs here in Las Vegas and usually they seem to be driven by women. I think that crappy Knight Rider TV movie did their demographic research when they made the male lead a gay-looking effeminite guy as they were in fact marketing expensive custom mustangs to females. I personally am not really into cars so much but I prefer the more blocky designs of the 70s and 80s than the more spherical designs of today and so I find that mustangs don't appeal to me visually. Of course, I actually have no clue if that preference holds true for males in general, as I very well could be the odd person out on this count. I guess the point of this paragraph was more that both men and women like fast cars. That's another difference, actually. If marketing research is to be trusted it seems that women like to see foppish girly men. I prefer to see powerful looking beefy dudes like Ahnold, Dolph Lundgren, or indeed Brock Lesnar. So I am guessing just based on empirical observation that there seems to be a gender divide in terms of preference for male body types and so forth. I feel like this also comes up in fantasy fiction. In fantasy or historical fiction written by women a lot of the heroic or sympathetic male leads are basically kind of gay-acting. If anyone is a Sonny Chiba style powerhouse in these works of fiction they're usually a dumb bad guy. On the other hand in lots of fiction written by male authors the heroic male leads are more likely to be ubermensch heroic. One last thing I noticed that seems to hold up as well. I noticed (again empirically just in my own experience) that while lots of males love to just sip hard liquor straight, women are much more likely to sip hard liquor only while making exaggerated comical grimaces and having a chaser handy. I don't know if that's socialization, or what, but just something I observed that seems to apply very broadly. Not trying to be sexist, and I know there must be awesome females who exist who can drink a pint of Johnny Walker Red like it's a beer, but just reporting my observations on what appears to be consistient gender difference. So, I dunno, now that I think about it, there do seem to be pretty well articulated gender preferences on various miscellaneous issues manifested in society as a whole. Based on my emperical observations. |
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Aug 12 2008, 06:43 PM
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#75
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Ain Soph Aur ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
People define themselves by the differences between them and others. In a room full of women, being a women is not a characteristic that would mean anything. In the shadows, a mostly male environment (or not, depends on the GM), being an exception (a female), is a defining characteristic. YOU can choose to ignore that in your view of what defines you, but odds are a number of people you meet will not ignore it, and that will have an impact (to varying degree) to how they interact with you. Thus, a person that wishes to understand life would do well to take into consideration how other people consider them, or they will be unable to complete cause/effect reasoning.
You can limit sex to only the physiological aspects, but IMO it is not sexist saying men and women think and act differently in ways that can be attributed not just to the fact everyone is an individual, but due to the fact they ARE women or men. Now perhaps that is anot an axiom, perhaps men and women thing differently merely as a product of their upbringing and acting how they believe people expect them to. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th November 2025 - 07:52 AM |
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