 Where are they now: Belgium edition, or: Dude, where's my country? |
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 Jul 29 2008, 02:21 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 29-July 08 Member No.: 16,173  |
I was looking over the 6th world wiki, and I noticed my home country of Belgium apparently doesn't exist anymore in 2070. I only started reading the books from 4th edition, so I can't help but wonder what happened that made our country apparently a part of France (according to the map of Europe). Anyone care to enlighten me?
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Jul 29 2008, 02:25 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: 4-April 08 Member No.: 15,843 |
QUOTE (Boscrossos @ Jul 29 2008, 03:21 PM)  I was looking over the 6th world wiki, and I noticed my home country of Belgium apparently doesn't exist anymore in 2070. I only started reading the books from 4th edition, so I can't help but wonder what happened that made our country apparently a part of France (according to the map of Europe). Anyone care to enlighten me? Ooo. Interesting... Have any of the other Euro-nations been expunged/incorporated... Have Luxembourg and Lichtenstein survived, or been hegemonised? |
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Jul 29 2008, 02:33 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I think those two were eaten by the SOX.
I know how you feel man, I'm of Walloon stock meself. |
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Jul 29 2008, 02:39 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
I'm just glad my Country is still around.
Sort of. Well, we got Top Billing, at least... |
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Jul 29 2008, 03:56 PM
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#5
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 29 2008, 04:39 PM) I'm just glad my Country is still around. Sort of. Different country, same sentiment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) A dark future awaits. |
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Jul 29 2008, 04:39 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,851 Joined: 15-February 08 From: Indianapolis Member No.: 15,686 |
So what's considered to be the official UCAS flag? The one that looks like an American flag but with maple leaves where there were stars (from The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)? Or this one?
Anyone have a "No Prize" explanation as to the change? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Jul 29 2008, 04:39 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-November 07 From: Shadows of France Member No.: 14,312 |
OM NOMNOMNOMNOM
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Jul 29 2008, 06:21 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
QUOTE (Boscrossos @ Jul 29 2008, 04:21 PM) I only started reading the books from 4th edition, so I can't help but wonder what happened that made our country apparently a part of France (according to the map of Europe). Anyone care to enlighten me? Belgium eventually divided into two countries - Wallonia (later became part of France) and Flanders (later became part of the United Netherlands). I just looked it up in SoE: Wallonia and Flanders split in 2016. |
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Jul 29 2008, 06:25 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 29 2008, 06:39 PM) So what's considered to be the official UCAS flag? The one that looks like an American flag but with maple leaves where there were stars (from The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)? Or this one? Anyone have a "No Prize" explanation as to the change? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Both are flags of the UCAS. The modified Stars-and-Stripes one is the flag used from creation of the UCAS until 2057, the other the new UCAS flag used since 2057. As to the change - it happened by popular vote. The old design was considered "too USAish", lacking proper representation of the formerly Canadian part of the UCAS. |
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Jul 29 2008, 06:34 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
QUOTE (Shiloh @ Jul 29 2008, 04:25 PM) Have Luxembourg and Lichtenstein survived, or been hegemonised? QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jul 29 2008, 04:33 PM) I think those two were eaten by the SOX. Luxembourg is indeed part of the SOX (SOX is short for "Saar-Lorraine-Luxembourg"). Liechtenstein (which is located between Switzerland and Austria, hundreds of kilometers from SOX, AH!) seem to have been annexed into Switzerland (no border on the Switzerland map in SoE). |
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Jul 29 2008, 06:34 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
I go with the new one. There's a reason for the Red Stripes on the left and right of the Canadian Flag, and I'm happy they're re-represented on the top and bottom (Probably for the same reason.).
The Stars propbably represent the remaining States in the UCAS, while the Leaves represent the remaining Provinces. Combines the best of both flags. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 29 2008, 07:46 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
What is the original source of the wiki flag?
Is the 2057 flag change described in a previous post canon, or just explaining a fan created flag? Given that UCAS is much more United States than Canada (population, inhabited area, Senate representation, capital is Washington D.C., etc.) the flag that most looks like the current "stars and stripes" is much more likely politically speaking, and still canon AFAIK. |
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Jul 29 2008, 07:51 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
The original source is here, which, considering the source, I'm pretty sure we can bet it's Cannon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Jul 29 2008, 07:57 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
Thanks, I looked at the website before posting but missed the link to that page (my bad)
I do not have SONA handy, does it explain the change (as noted above), or just show a new UCAS flag with no back story? |
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Jul 29 2008, 08:15 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
SONA does not appear to explain the flag.
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Jul 29 2008, 08:22 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jul 29 2008, 09:57 PM) I do not have SONA handy, does it explain the change (as noted above), or just show a new UCAS flag with no back story? Actually, the first depiction of the new flag is older than SoNA (2057 was in the SR2 era) - I think I saw it in Super Tuesday or maybe Target: UCAS? (I own neither so I can't look it up.) |
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Jul 29 2008, 08:58 PM
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#17
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
QUOTE (MYST1C @ Jul 29 2008, 10:22 PM) Actually, the first depiction of the new flag is older than SoNA (2057 was in the SR2 era) - I think I saw it in Super Tuesday or maybe Target: UCAS? (I own neither so I can't look it up.) Super Tuesday has the old flag. Oddly enough I can´t seem to find a single flag in Target:UCAS. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:29 AM
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#18
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
QUOTE (Boscrossos @ Jul 29 2008, 04:21 PM) I was looking over the 6th world wiki, and I noticed my home country of Belgium apparently doesn't exist anymore in 2070. I only started reading the books from 4th edition, so I can't help but wonder what happened that made our country apparently a part of France (according to the map of Europe). Anyone care to enlighten me? Belgium broke into two, Wallonia was assimilated into France, and Flanders was assimilated into the Netherlands - who were happy because they regained about as much land as the Black Tide had cost them. SR central Europa has a much different coastline. Brussels is an enclave run by the NEEC, SR's version of the EU. Sadly, that's not quite as far out there as other balcanisations the SR setting is propagating. From the state the country is in now, 2016 sounds kind of optimistic. However, better this way than having your country turned into something ridiculous because the authors felt they had to cram everything there was in North America into something the size of Georgia, and then some more, truely batshit insane stuff, cause it's cool. QUOTE Luxembourg is indeed part of the SOX (SOX is short for "Saar-Lorraine-Luxembourg"). Liechtenstein (which is located between Switzerland and Austria, hundreds of kilometers from SOX, AH!) seem to have been annexed into Switzerland (no border on the Switzerland map in SoE). In Chrom&Dioxin, the german SB from where the switzerland of SoE was mainly imported, Liechtenstein does exist. I suppose it was overseen in the SoE map because it's half the size of Manhattan. Of course, the map of switzerland in C&D was a cutout from a 90s Shell roadmap, so that might aly play into the fact of Liechtenstein being mentioned there. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:30 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 29-July 08 Member No.: 16,173 |
QUOTE (MYST1C @ Jul 29 2008, 08:21 PM) Belgium eventually divided into two countries - Wallonia (later became part of France) and Flanders (later became part of the United Netherlands). I just looked it up in SoE: Wallonia and Flanders split in 2016. That's strangely prophetic, seeing as the current political crisis in Belgium is centered entirely around people fearing this will happen. Anyhoo, thanks for clearing that up for me. |
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Jul 30 2008, 08:42 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
QUOTE (Boscrossos @ Jul 30 2008, 09:30 AM) That's strangely prophetic, seeing as the current political crisis in Belgium is centered entirely around people fearing this will happen. We aim to please. Shadows of Europe was written by Europeans who were/are aware of the political and social issues of our continent. Though we were constrained to a certain extent by existing canon, we tried to adjust as much as possible to make things believable and relevant (hence the changes to Switzerland and Austria vs the original German material, France vs. the Descartes material, UK vs. London SB, etc). Still my favorite project after all these years. |
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Jul 30 2008, 10:51 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-November 07 From: Shadows of France Member No.: 14,312 |
QUOTE (Synner @ Jul 30 2008, 10:42 AM) France vs. the Descartes material Yeah, never been a fan of this. Too much "LOOK AT US WE ARE MORE SPECIAL" (the fuckhuge dragon, the mist (okay, the mist was pretty cool), etc) But what I really have issue with, is the come back of royalty/church. We beheaded our king after the revolution of 1789 damnit and we are a secular state (not really sure of the term: separation of church and state) since 1905. It just can't happen. Sorry about the rant. |
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Jul 30 2008, 11:30 AM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 2,048 |
QUOTE (krakjen @ Jul 29 2008, 07:39 PM) OM NOMNOMNOMNOM Hun, close your mouth when you are eating or else we will enroll you in a catholic all girls school in Bruge. |
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Jul 30 2008, 11:30 AM
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#23
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
@krakjen: I so understand your frustration. Same with the German setting.
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Jul 30 2008, 11:35 AM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 2,048 |
Uups, double post
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Jul 30 2008, 11:47 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
QUOTE (krakjen @ Jul 30 2008, 05:51 AM) the fuckhuge dragon Fuckhuge dragon in France, says I, what the heck are they talking about? QUOTE (Some Wikipedia Article) The Dragon of Auvergne After the eruption of the Auvergne volcanoes in 2011, a dragon was discovered lying in the crater of the Puy de Sancy. It is "certainly the largest Great Western Dragons" ever seen, 30 or 40 meters long, with a wingspan of 50 meters. That...that sounds like something out of a squealing twenty-six year old fangirl's wildest dreams. QUOTE Sorry about the rant. So no, I think you're entirely justified in ranting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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