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> Cyberzombies, In the waiting
Chrysalis
post Jul 29 2008, 04:46 PM
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Greets,

I was looking through Augmentation and it has rules and instructions on running on cyberzombies. Has anyone ever made a PC with the rules?

I was thinking it would be neat on using cyberware and nanotech to create a heavily Shadowpunk world, much more in line with the world of Ghost in the Shell than with SR.

-Chrysalis
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Ed_209a
post Jul 29 2008, 05:02 PM
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If you want GITS, look for the full-body cyborgs in Augmentation. You will need less (but not no) handwaving to get to the cybernetics of GITS.
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Sir_Psycho
post Jul 29 2008, 05:09 PM
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The problem with cyberzombies in SR4 is that they can't be subtle. They create monstrous background count wherever they go, so most people will see them coming. So cyberzombies really need quick insertion that only corps and the best runner teams can provide.

Personally I found them a lot scarier in previous editions. Now they're really only a combat "boss" type character.
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Isath
post Jul 29 2008, 05:23 PM
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Indeed, go cyborg there.

Cybermancy is definately not that well suited for PCs. Hell, I even find it way to over the top and somewhat crappy to use it as npcs / plotdevices. In my eyes the cybermancy stuff plainly sucks. To get in the way of one of those cyberzombies you'll need some artillery or something like that. They have immunity to normal weapons and somewhat cancelout magic to some extend (backgroundcount). They are also able to have attributes that go where no attribute has gone before... Unless you what some comic like Ultimate setting, that wouldn't be the way to go I guess.

Cyborgs are more mudane and have more in common with the "Ghost in the Shell" setting - also they are no "one man armies". They fit a hightech campain perfectly.
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Chrysalis
post Jul 29 2008, 05:23 PM
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I understood that cyberzombies are very much an end boss character. However what about a Shadowrun/Bubblegum Crisis crossover. I see cyberzombies as being combat dropped heavy weapons platforms like boomers with their equal subtlety.

I was actually going to ignore the MAGIIIC! portion with cyberzombies. So cybrogs would be the way to go? Any limits with them as they would be basically built as vehicles?

-Chrysalis
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Dumori
post Jul 29 2008, 06:12 PM
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Cyberzombies are cool but im unsure how ott you want to go. I wonder waht the damage is to be dropped form orbit. How needs just plan old thor shot when it can fight after it lands as well. High rating hydraulic legs the super damage soaking power and maybe a parachute. Gilding from orbit then drop on the target guns blazing. Off topic slightly but one fun idea.
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krakjen
post Jul 29 2008, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Dumori @ Jul 29 2008, 08:12 PM) *
Cyberzombies are cool but im unsure how ott you want to go. I wonder waht the damage is to be dropped form orbit. How needs just plan old thor shot when it can fight after it lands as well. High rating hydraulic legs the super damage soaking power and maybe a parachute. Gilding from orbit then drop on the target guns blazing. Off topic slightly but one fun idea.

While that idea is fun, I don't think orbital drop would be that interesting, you have to bring it up there first, satellite are rarely very fast/mobile and there is many inconvenience with atmosphere reentry. You'll need some kind of drop pod...
On the other hand, a prepared stealth bomber and high altitude parachuted cyberzombies can be equally neat.
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Lionhearted
post Jul 29 2008, 06:26 PM
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"The doors opened in front of me and the air was sucked out of the drop bay, scattering crystals of frozen vapor across my path. I can't describe what it feels like to look directly down at a world, falling continuously as you circle it, with barely fifteen centimeters of armor plate protecting you. When the magnetic locks disengaged on my droid I plunged out of the drop bay towards the battle that waited below."
Excerpt from Dialogue w. Canderous Ordo, describing the feeling of being dropped from high orbit towards a raging battle inside a Basilisk war droid..
Kotor... play it.. love it... play it again
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imperialus
post Jul 29 2008, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (krakjen @ Jul 29 2008, 12:22 PM) *
While that idea is fun, I don't think orbital drop would be that interesting, you have to bring it up there first, satellite are rarely very fast/mobile and there is many inconvenience with atmosphere reentry. You'll need some kind of drop pod...
On the other hand, a prepared stealth bomber and high altitude parachuted cyberzombies can be equally neat.


In a far future SF game I roughed out using the Shadowrun (3rd ed) system that was actually the primary deployment method of the planetary assault units of the Terran Defence Force. Basically the entire Assault Unit's purpose was to establish beach heads and LZ's on planets and serve as a sort of forlorn hope. It was made up of convicted criminals who were sentenced to "military modification". They were kept in stasis on their troop ships and ejected onto the planet from orbit. They had a drop pod similar to the ones in Starship Troopers (the book) and would have the mission plan uploaded into their brain just prior to their drop. They'd be launched out of the assault ships and basically left alone to do their thing. They were really difficult to actually kill, and completely single minded once they did hit the ground. Suited up in power armour, pumped full of combat drugs, and with enough cybernetic modification that they weren't even human anymore they really were the ultimate warriors. Their big downside was that they were so aggressive and difficult to control that they needed to be knocked back into a comatose state before any regular troops could land or there was a very real possibility of a blue on blue situation. They also couldn't be used in anything but a full scale assault since although they were capable of distinguishing civilian targets from real threats they were simply so aggressive that they would target anything that moved if no other targets presented themselves.
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Stahlseele
post Jul 29 2008, 06:52 PM
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sounds like Warhammer 40k Dreadnaughts to me
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Lionhearted
post Jul 29 2008, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 29 2008, 08:52 PM) *
sounds like Warhammer 40k Dreadnaughts to me


In what way? Aint dreadnoughts supposed to be great heroes graced to serve the emperor even through death.. ?
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Stahlseele
post Jul 29 2008, 07:05 PM
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yeah, so? O.o
in the eyes of Eldar, Necron, Orks and Chaos they are not, it's all in the perception of your reality *g*
or Chaos Dreadnaught if you want
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krakjen
post Jul 29 2008, 07:10 PM
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Chaos Dreadnought indeed better match the description.
They are never asleep contrary to their loyalist counterpart and are, literally, insane.
When unleashed on the battlefield, they just attacks everything in sight...
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Dumori
post Jul 29 2008, 07:25 PM
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I want to make a melee zombie now monowhips vibroblades full heavy mill spec armor and a bucket load of armor plating. What fun it would be for one of these to drop in on a glider plus one missile launcher for high threat targets. I think I'll have my runner get recon and GPS for a stike team again a huge terrorist cell just drop him and a ranged buddy in and watch their faces as a small army is wiped out by two people falling from the sky.
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imperialus
post Jul 29 2008, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 29 2008, 12:52 PM) *
sounds like Warhammer 40k Dreadnaughts to me


If anything they're probably closer to Evisor(sp?) Assassins in power armour. They were also more adaptable than dreadnoughts however since there were a variety of 'cyborg' chassis' that could be deployed, everything from highly stealthed scouts, up to massive 15 foot tall war machines (based around trolls) that were much closer in spirit to Dreadnoughts. Most were still pretty much human sized though and equipped with the standard firearms and power armour of the TDF. They were simply much harder targets.
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krakjen
post Jul 29 2008, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 29 2008, 09:37 PM) *
If anything they're probably closer to Evisor(sp?) Assassins in power armour.

Eversor Assasins.
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Dumori
post Jul 30 2008, 10:42 PM
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Still cant beat the vindicator fluff wise or the shape changing one. For a fascist empire (rules by a comatose god in the public's eyes) that kills mutants on sight the elites are very FUBAR but cool.
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hyzmarca
post Jul 31 2008, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 29 2008, 12:09 PM) *
The problem with cyberzombies in SR4 is that they can't be subtle. They create monstrous background count wherever they go, so most people will see them coming. So cyberzombies really need quick insertion that only corps and the best runner teams can provide.

Personally I found them a lot scarier in previous editions. Now they're really only a combat "boss" type character.


If by 'most' you mean less than 1/100 then, yes, most people will see them coming. ''Most', however, usually indicated more than half.

Cyberzombies can be made to be subtle, up to a point. You can have face cyberzombies, stealth cyberzombies, detective cyberzombies, and all other sorts of cyberzombies in addition to the standard absurdly durable killing machine. There is really no requirement to get heavy combat 'ware as a cyberzombie, except for the fact that it must add up to more than 6 points of essence as Delta grade.

Real problem with the cyberzombie is their tendency to zone out and forget to live.
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Dumori
post Jul 31 2008, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE
Real problem with the cyberzombie is their tendency to zone out and forget to live.


Now they sound like a few people I know. Part of me wonder how you can get over a large amount of delta in some one as well cyber limb are waste full on a Cyberzombie it would be one ticked out beast to be huge and nigh on immortal.
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hyzmarca
post Jul 31 2008, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (Dumori @ Jul 30 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Now they sound like a few people I know. Part of me wonder how you can get over a large amount of delta in some one as well cyber limb are waste full on a Cyberzombie it would be one ticked out beast to be huge and nigh on immortal.


You start out with Move By Wire 3 and grow from there. Use big stuff, like dual coaxial fire-linked grenade launchers in each arm, or a great deal of little stuff. It is actually possibly to create a cyberzombie using nothing but senseware. Its not easy, mind you, and requires putting eyeballs in some very odd places, but it is possible.
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Moon-Hawk
post Jul 31 2008, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Dumori @ Jul 30 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Now they sound like a few people I know. Part of me wonder how you can get over a large amount of delta in some one as well cyber limb are waste full on a Cyberzombie it would be one ticked out beast to be huge and nigh on immortal.

I knew this one guy who had a tendency to forget to breathe if he thought about anything too hard. Once he passed out he wouldn't be concentrating on anything, obviously, so he'd start breathing again and he'd wake up pretty quickly.
As I understand it, he had at least one massive overdose in his younger life that was believed to be responsible.
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Rasumichin
post Jul 31 2008, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (Dumori @ Jul 31 2008, 01:13 AM) *
Part of me wonder how you can get over a large amount of delta in some one as well cyber limb are waste full on a Cyberzombie it would be one ticked out beast to be huge and nigh on immortal.


P. 156, AUG mentions that all cyberware is likely to be delta grade.
It is not required to.
Actually, it would theoretically be possible to build a CZ using used standard ware only.

However, at least the new 'ware implanted during the cybermantic surgery will usually be delta grade.
In many cases, the subjects will also already have their previously installed ware replaced by delta-grade implants, as such a high risk operation is considered partially as an option for patients who cannot by implanted with even more 'ware without going below zero essence, but still feel the need for additional modification.

There are other examples, though, cases in which the cybermantic process is a means of life extension (if the term "life" is even remotely appropriate here).
Hatchetman was one of those cases (and also one of the first officially known test subjects for the whole procedure).

Furthermore, some rather derelict individuals might also consider cybermancy's side effects, such as background count, dual nature or unnatural vigor, be an end in itself, undergoing cybermancy to benefit from them.
Note that many of the positive side effects increase with greater essence reduction below zero (as well as the negative ones...better be prepared).

In such cases (or cases where someone else decides that the two abovementioned factors alone validate cybermancy), not resorting to deltaware might actually be considered a feasible option.

Even then, one might argue that the extreme costs asociated with the whole procedure, both monetary and otherwise, make the use of anything less than maximum implant quality redundant, but theoretically, CZ with non-delta-grade 'ware are possible.

Moreover, there might also be cybermantic research where scientists attempt to reach new levels of negative essence (some passages of AUG suggest this).
Depending on who is the subject of this research, cheaper 'ware might appear as an adequate solution to those financing such projects.
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sunnyside
post Aug 1 2008, 04:47 AM
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Actually Rasumichin raises an interesting point for creating a PC type cyberzombie.

It sounds like things have moved past where there is significant risk to the caster, but they also mention that something is learned every time with the procedure.

Therefore there could be research groups making cyberzombies out of second hand cyberware (possibly shifting it from one failed experiment directly to the next). It would be fairly trivial to make a character like that who managed to slip out of the facility even using a standard 400BP build. Just make them take maybe a 30 point "cyberzombie" quality.

Alternatively some corp might be interested in squads of them as an anti magic force. Even just throwing one -5 essence zombie on a chopper that fits within it's field would pretty well mask it an the guys inside from remote detection magic and make it a witch to attack via spirits and most spells. UCAS might be interested in that if they want to try and get some NAN land back.

A note on their immunity to normal weapons. How does that combine with the rest of their armor?

Lets say they have 15 points of regular armor on and have 5 points of immunity. Would they have:

effectively 20 points of hardened armor (I really don't think so).

15 points of armor. If the attack can't even generate a DV of 5 it is ignored
20 points of armor If the attack can't even generate a DV of 5 it is ignored.

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Blade
post Aug 1 2008, 08:34 AM
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I've completely changed my view of cyberzombies the day I realized that cyberzombification raises the maximum modified limit for mental attributes as well. Since then, I've been thinking of the cyberzombie CEO : more charismatic than a pornomancer, as intelligent as a dragon... I just need to check if there are enough charisma and logic boosting ware to make it possible.
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Shiloh
post Aug 1 2008, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 1 2008, 09:34 AM) *
...cyberzombie CEO : more charismatic than a pornomancer, as intelligent as a dragon... I just need to check if there are enough charisma and logic boosting ware to make it possible.

And if there isn't, just load it up with really sneaky lethalware... No need to make it a one-trick pony...
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