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> Cyborgs, In the waiting, part II
FlashbackJon
post Aug 1 2008, 12:23 AM
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The Cyberzombie thread got me to thinking about Cyborgs.

Has anyone, successfully or unsuccessfully, included a cyborg in a campaign as a PC? Were they a clonal/child cyborg, or a character who later became a cyborg? If started as a cyborg, did they fit in the 400 BP limits? How did you justify their presence, storyline-wise?

Stories, please! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Moon-Hawk
post Aug 1 2008, 06:35 PM
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No, I haven't. (this is certainly not, in any way, a charitable bump (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )
I would allow it though.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 1 2008, 07:40 PM
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cyborgs sound even more like WH40K Dreadnaughts O.o
or Daleks . . one can do so many differend flavours of awesome with the 4th edition toys right now . . but i still hate what they did to the rules system so i probably won't get to ever play something like that unless i get my act together and (do a barrel roll) translate it back to SR3 to make SR3.5 . .
i would probably be the one trying to play one of those monstrosities, but the things i do within the rules are bad enough ^^
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imperialus
post Aug 1 2008, 08:13 PM
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Well justifying one in game is pretty easy. The PC is an escaped prototype, mad scientist creation, whatever. Gives the PC to play up the Frankenstein's Monster aspect of a Cyborg.

Fitting one in mechanics wise? Tougher. They're more powerful than just about any starting runner. One possibility might be to introduce one as a replacement PC for a team that has a fair bit of Karma under their belts.
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Ryu
post Aug 1 2008, 09:09 PM
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The issue is not in the jarhead, the issue is in the drone body. If you can ensure that the drone body will stay reasonable, allowing a cyborg will cause little problems. It is the military platform that could get the samurai envious, and your campaign broken.

I had a minor cyborg request for the new campaign, and only denied it because it might serve as a possible character evolution later. So definitly an adult brain if it comes to happen. At chargen I would handle the CCU as a 30-BP advantage, and suggest clonal brains for sanity reasons.
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Squinky
post Aug 1 2008, 11:57 PM
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As a guy who loves cyborgs, of both varieties, I've done the math.

You are actually better off making a full limb replacement character if you are going for mechanics and not fluff and you are combat and not hacking oriented.

You can get much higher armor out the gate (2 on each limb that stacks, for a total of 10 since cyberskulls aren't available at chargen) and your stats will be much higher. The Otomo is the only drone body that you can wear human armor with, and it starts with no armor, and will only allow up to 6 points of modding, so max armor of 6....kinda falls behind, even if it is kinda hardened.

Unless I am misunderstanding the rules for them, you base your strength and body off your drone body, and you can never get a walker drone above 10 body, so you are pretty much hard capped there for both those attributes.

There are some cool-ass things drone borgs can do, but for most samuari, you are better off as a limb replacer.
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Rasumichin
post Aug 2 2008, 12:39 AM
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Yeah, a fully twinked troll CZ might be able to soak more damage.


But Borgs can, with the right drone body and skillset, get AGI DPs that are just absurd.
I mean beyond CZ-level absurd.
Somewhere around 17 or 18, i think.
NOT including the respective Firearms/Infiltration/Whatever skill.
Someone else did the math in another thread on this board, one of the devs stating that the rules where intended exactly this way.

Plus, a jarhead's brain is almost immune to magic, as the aura is completely hidden within the drone body.
This also makes them an optimal choice for stealth missions, as they will be practically invisible in the astral, but unlike drones, do not neccessarily have to be tied into a wifi-network.

From a mechanical standpoint, they are a highly interesting option.
If you want to build the ultimate sniper, go Cyborg.

Now, just imagine a whole platoon of those monsters blasting through the next desert wars tournament...


Besides that, i haven't tried them as PCs.
I would allow them, but not as 400 BP starting characters, as a CCU is to expensive to be bought under standard chargen rules.
Augmentation rightly suggests only to introduce jarheads in campaigns with higher starting BP.
To provide them as alternative characters later in a campaign or to allow a PC to be transformed into a jarhead later in the brain would be other possibilities, of course.
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Squinky
post Aug 2 2008, 01:33 AM
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Yeah, I guess my biggest issue is their low body, and the fact that all the cool toys they can get are tied to that low body. From a purely mechanical viewpoint.

Other than that, if you can somehow figure out the maintenance routine on your own, or have a GM who dosen't enforce it much, it could be a cool way to make a unique and fun character.
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hyzmarca
post Aug 2 2008, 03:23 AM
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QUOTE (imperialus @ Aug 1 2008, 04:13 PM) *
Well justifying one in game is pretty easy. The PC is an escaped prototype, mad scientist creation, whatever. Gives the PC to play up the Frankenstein's Monster aspect of a Cyborg.



I prefer the more mundane origin.

"The job ad said 'Hazardous Enviroment Forklift'. I assumed it meant forklift operator. I was wrong."
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Ryu
post Aug 2 2008, 09:43 AM
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The armor modification does take up one slot for (rating) armor points. The Otomo can take 18 points of normal armor, or 10 points of still hardened stealth armor. On top of worn armor. Lets choose stealth armor (2 slots).

Then you can carry an improved sensor array (1 slot) and upgrade the sensors to rating 6. Senseware? Taken care of.

You have the priviledge of using other skills than Gunnery. Which just won´t happen for a clonal brain. Gunnery 5 (ballistics +2) + Response 6+ VCR 2 +Hot-SIM 2 = 17 dice base, missing either smartlink or active targeting bonus, all that with recoil compensation 6 (drone body), possibly on a hands-free weapon system...

Now there are several nice options for the 3 remaining modification slots. Chameleon Coating (2 slots) and maybe ECM (1 slot)?
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Rasumichin
post Aug 2 2008, 10:55 AM
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Nano repair unit, probably?
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Ryu
post Aug 2 2008, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Aug 2 2008, 12:55 PM) *
Nano repair unit, probably?


Good alternative to the ECM if one is going for the stealth armor. Superior even. If you take standard armor, any penetrating DV will be too large to make the option worthwhile.
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sunnyside
post Aug 2 2008, 02:48 PM
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Hey where did all this new drone stuff come from? I thought Arsenal only had a little? The new companion?
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Rasumichin
post Aug 2 2008, 02:58 PM
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No, it's from Arsenal.
They don't have tanks and aircraft carriers anymore, but they did include 3 drones specifically designed as cyborg bodies, an assasin model (the Akiyama), one that looks like a normal metahuman (the Otomo) and a heavy combat walker, the Tomino.

There's also a bunch of other drones, including the one that can be used to build Dalek-style cyborgs, even though there are, all in all, less vehicles than in SR3.
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FlashbackJon
post Sep 12 2008, 03:47 PM
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Resurrection, since I'm actually getting around to making a cyborg character now.

How do you picture cyborgs fitting into society? I mean, as far as the average joe knows, they're just drones right? Would anyone think twice about the Otomo (assuming they managed to realize it wasn't a metahuman) at the local electronics store? Or in a bar? What about an unarmed Tomino? Do most people even know cyborgs are possible - or is that strictly the domain of the megas and government programs?

Anyone have an recommendations for clever drawbacks to "used" drone bodies? Someone in another thread mentioned buying used drone bodies to make a starting 400BP cyborg more feasible, but the used vehicle section essentially says "work it out with your GM" - I'm okay with that solution, I just want to have some clever options for him to peruse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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hyzmarca
post Sep 12 2008, 07:47 PM
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Some ideas

Faulty Wiring (Levels 1-4): The used drone doesn't work quite right. It may have a manufacturing defect or it may have simply worn out with use, whatever the cause, subtract the level of this flaw from the number of 1s required to glich a test.
At GMs discretion a test may be required to perform certain actions that don't normally require tests.

Hot Body (Levels 1-3): Your drone was either stolen from its original owner or the original owner fair to complete his payments on it, either way there is a problem with your drone's title and some agency is on the lookout for it. Your drone in liable to be impounded or repossessed if it is discovered by the authorities. The value of this flaw is depends on whether or not someone is actively searching for the drone and whether or not a person possessing the drone is subject to arrest.

Annoying Presets: Just as a car radio has preset stations, a drone has preset actions that it can take is response to certain stimuli. The previous owner had many presets and didn't erase any of them. You tried to scrub the system but aren't sure if you've gotten them all. Drones with this flaw may take actions on their own initiative, without regard to operator input, at the GM's discretion, in response to specific sensory data. The GM shall make a list of sensory input that will prompt actions and which actions these specific situations will prompt and shall keep this list hidden from the player. These situations should not be common. Once a preset has been discovered (usually by witnessing it), it can be deleted with a Software (2, 10 minutes) test.

Rustbucket (Levels 1-2): The drone is an older model which was not well maintained. Reduce all of its stats by 1 or 2 (stats cannot be reduced below 1).

Problem [Stat] (Levels 1-4): Like Rustbucket, but only affects one stat.

Ticking Time Bomb: Like Borrowed Time, but for drones. Some unidentified vital part of this drone is very close to failure. When it finally does break, the drone will be totally shut down, dumping anyone jacked in and leaving a cyborg pilot totally helpless.

Cosmetic Battle Damage: Your combat drone has actually been in combat, and it shows. The drone is full functional, but it has obvious scortch marks, bullet holes, and other signs of combat. Anyone looking at the drone will be aware of the fact that it has been in a firefight or three. -2 dice to social tests with strangers, +1 to intimidation tests, possible police scrutiny.

Bad Aim (Levels 1-3): A sensor or camera is misaligned -(level) to all ranged attack tests.

Robby the Robot (Levels 1-3): Your drone is not sleek, streamlined, or SOTA. It, in fact, looks kind of like Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet. Due to its ugly, awkward, and totally inhuman appearance ad speech, it suffers a -(Level) penalty to all social tests. Stacks with Cosmetic Battle Damage.

Broken Mount: This flaw is available only to drones with weapon mounts. One of the weapon mounts is broken.

Fuel Guzzler: Operation Time is reduced to 4 hours per fuel tank instead of the standard 6.

Gaudy Appearance (levels 1-2): The drone has the Pimped Ride option for free, but it is pimped in a way that the PC hates, or at least that does not fit his character. Instead of adding its level to Intimidation and Reputations tests, subtracts its level from those tests.

Just don't try to [Skill] (Levels 1-4): This drone is particularly unsuited to the use of a particular skill. Apply a -(level) modifier to all uses of that skill with the drone body. Does not apply to Pilot (drone type) unless you are using the drone body to physically pilot of vehicle of the same type.

Criminal Drone: The drone was used in a crime, and there is evidence of this. Possession of the drone may implicate you in that crime.

Leaks: The drone leaks in places where water should not go. Apply a -2 penalty to all actions when the drone is submerged or exposed to a large amount of water untill it can be dried which requires a B/R (2, 3 hours) test.

Fragile: Double all ramming and falling damage that the drone takes.
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Gast
post Sep 12 2008, 07:52 PM
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As far as they give us real Cyberbrains and allow us to forego the magic mumbo jumbo that is obviously not needed, first thing I'll do is to play a human ascending.

In the neolithic revolution humanity made clear that this level of existence is not what we finally want.

And after the cybernetic revolution, we shall have another.
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