Free Spirit Rules Query, Conflicting data? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[The Jopp]

There is an oddity i would ask of someone responsible if possible.

In Runners Companion it says the following:

For spirits of possession traditions, the spirit’s Physical
attributes are added to the attributes of the vessel possessed by the
spirit.

In Street magic is says:

If the vessel is inanimate or dead, the spirit’s
Force is added to any appropriate Physical
ratings (at the gamemaster’s discretion). For
instance, a corpse’s attributes would be appropriate,
as would a jar’s Barrier rating, or a vehicle’s
Body, Armor, and Speed—though not it’s
Handling.

Now, i understand perfectly that the regular attributes on a living creature are boosted by the bought attributes the spirit have - but how does one handle unliving beings like posessed drones and armour ratings?

Normally Force would apply to both attributes and armour, how would one solve it now? And what attribute would be added to a drone? Or armour rating? Force?

It is both slightly conflicting and makes it more confusing.

Would a free spirit PC add Reaction to a drones handling and Force to armor unlike a regular possession spirit? Or dont they get a bonus at all? Since force is note used according to RC and there is no armor attribute...

[hyzmarca]

Simple, really, understand that the Free Spirit PC rules are wrong and house rule that PC Possession spirits don't have physical stats, just like NPC possession spirits don't, and add Force to all of a vessel's physical ratings just like NPC Possession spirits do.

[Tarantula]

Or just substitute the physical stats in place of the force based stats of nonPC spirits.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Simple, really, understand that the Free Spirit PC rules are wrong and house rule that PC Possession spirits don't have physical stats, just like NPC possession spirits don't, and add Force to all of a vessel's physical ratings just like NPC Possession spirits do.

???

Because the best way to balance two options is to give one of them an enormous discount?

[hyzmarca]

???

Because the best way to balance two options is to give one of them an enormous discount?

The best way to balance the two options is to use the original rules, which were balanced, instead of creating brand new rules which don't look anything like the original rules and which blatantly contradict them.

I understand that the idea was to avoid absurdly the overpowered Free Spirit characters that could be created with a 400BP chargen, but there are better ways to handle this. Increased BP costs for Force, or chargen force caps, for example.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

The original rules were that all attributes for both possesion and materialization spirits were based off of force.

You're changing it so 3 of 6 attributes for only possesion spirits are free.

See the difference?

[hyzmarca]

The original rules were that all attributes for both possesion and materialization spirits were based off of force.

You're changing it so 3 of 6 attributes for only possesion spirits are free.

See the difference?

Of course.


Make it so that all attributes are force Force + a purchased modifier, or simply Force + Vessel for Possession and Inhabitation.

[Tarantula]

That would be the best way hyz.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

That's better - it may even make the 250bp/500 karma cost of making a spirit pc too cheap. Though force should probably be more expensive then.

[Tarantula]

Maybe 6x cost because you're getting 6 attributes for it?

[hyzmarca]

Maybe 6x cost because you're getting 6 attributes for it?

You're getting 8 attributes for it, so 80 is appropriate. This is incredibly expensive, but given how powerful Force actually is, appropriate.

Personally, I'd redo the entirety of Free Spirit chargen to be more inline with fluff, but that is a decent start.

[Tarantula]

There ya go, less flexibility, but it follows how other spirits work (all attributes based off force).


What about different spirit types? Air/fire/etc that get modifiers to their stats based on type?

[hyzmarca]

There ya go, less flexibility, but it follows how other spirits work (all attributes based off force).


What about different spirit types? Air/fire/etc that get modifiers to their stats based on type?

In the Street Magic rules, they lose those modifiers when becoming Free. Essentially, those spirits lose their initial type and tradition, retaining nothing but there original powerset , skillset, and (possibly) appearance.

[raverbane]

We are trying to figure out something to use for our game that is closer to Free Spirits from Street Magic, as opposed to the puny little cousins from RC.

I am still playing with the numbers. We also are thinking something along the lines of 80 BP per point of force. And the rest of the free spirit is designed something along the lines of the Ally Spirit build system.

Still tweaking around the numbers

[Malicant]

RC Free Spirit rules remind me so much of Ghouls PC rules in SR3, it's not even funny.

[hyzmarca]

We are trying to figure out something to use for our game that is closer to Free Spirits from Street Magic, as opposed to the puny little cousins from RC.

I am still playing with the numbers. We also are thinking something along the lines of 80 BP per point of force. And the rest of the free spirit is designed something along the lines of the Ally Spirit build system.

Still tweaking around the numbers

If you're going with the Ally Spirit rules it would probably be best to use karma and simply limit the amount of karma that a free spirit can use.

[Aaron]

You're getting 8 attributes for it, so 80 is appropriate. This is incredibly expensive, but given how powerful Force actually is, appropriate.

Actually, you're getting nine attributes, since Force is also Magic for the spirit. Ten if you include Edge in that count.

[Aaron]

I understand that the idea was to avoid absurdly the overpowered Free Spirit characters that could be created with a 400BP chargen, but there are better ways to handle this. Increased BP costs for Force, or chargen force caps, for example.

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm sticking with the part that says that PC spirits are different from NPC spirits. I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't really believe that every Lone Star officer, vampire, and western dragon has exactly the same stats; why should spirits?

[Cthulhudreams]

The worst thing about the free spirit rules is that you have to pay like 80BP for something that a mage can buy his ally spirit with 8 karma.

Wtf?

If the ally spirit rules from street magic where better priced, you could just use those. I was seriously considering that.

[Aaron]

The worst thing about the free spirit rules is that you have to pay like 80BP for something that a mage can buy his ally spirit with 8 karma.

Could you elaborate on that?

[Muspellsheimr]

I like the idea of basing Free Spirit characters off Ally Spirit creation. I propose a Build Point/Karma cost for playing a Free Spirit to account for all the various advantages (Hardened Armor, Metaplanar Hop) & disadvantages (no Foci, no Matrix). Free Spirits begin at Force 1, and from there use the Ally Spirit creation rules. Granted, these rules will need a little modifications to function, & be converted to Build Points, but it is by far the best option I have seen so far without beginning again with nothing.

I believe I will work on these costs this week, and post the rules once I have them completed. No telling how long that will take, but hopefully soon.

[hyzmarca]

I have a simpler proposition.

For BP creation, the player chooses one of the 10 standard spirit types and pays 100BP per force point (minimim cost 200BP for a Force 2 spirit). For that price, the player gets all of that spirit type's standard powers and skills. Stats and Skills start at Force. Edge starts at Force-1 (minimum 1), representing a point of Edge burned on the test to go free.

Instead of Power Points, the new Free Spirit can choose a number of extra powers equal to his Edge from his type's optional powers or save those power slots for later. Learning powers not available to his original sprit type requires an Astral Quest, Initiation, or a Free spirit teacher. He can also learn metamagics as powers from a metahuman teacher.

Leftover build points can be used as normal.


This puts a softcap of 4 on the spirit's Force at chargen and limits his power choices while still following the Free Spirit rules.


For former Allies, a limited karma creation is required (I'm thinking 100-150, maybe I'll need to look at the Ally spirit costs again).