Full-Body Augmentations and Cyberlimbs, There's less meat, but it costs the same? Options

[de4dmeta1]

There's a lot of full-body augmentations available to the discerning 'runner nowadays, and some of the better known examples - Orthoskin, Muscle Replacement, Bone Lacing, etc. - are damn near ubiquitous for many characters. Mainly because they boost stats across the board, without the need for specific upgrades like Cyberlimbs do. That right there being the kicker; as it states in the BBB, 'cyberlimbs cannot hold bioware, nor any cyber-implants that take up Essence rather than Capacity.'

Now, I've been bouncing around this idea for a bit, but that line made me wonder - how do you treat characters with both full-body mods and cyberlimbs? The best I've been able to come up with is a flat discount, dependant on number of cyberlimbs, for full-body modifications the character undergoes. Say, 15% for each limb, and 10% for each shell (torso/skull)?
That would just be a game I'd be running, mind you - but how would you treat such a character in your game? Have them pay full list price for everything, discount across the board, discount the nuyen aspect, or make it less invasive but just as costly in hard cred? This all assumes the cyberlimb is the first mod in the bod, of course - but how would you play it if character with a full-body aug got a cyberlimb mid-game? Have the limb cost less essence, to represent the 'hole' left by the augmented meat limb it's replacing?

I'm just going to halt the rambling there, and put the basic question of the thread - How do you handle, essence and cred-wise, a character getting both a full-body augmentation and one or more cyberlimbs?

[ElFenrir]

Well, I used the old rules in the SR3 companion. I don't have it in front of me, but it worked quite well. If I recall, things like bone lacing and muscle augmentation were discounted 5% per limb, in both Nuyen and Essence cost. It makes sense..because I really don't see how someone with 2 legs and an arm is still going to have to pay the full price in cost AND Essence for what amounts to only 2 more slots on their body(we count 2 arms, 2 legs, and the torso.)

So someone with 2 cyberarms getting Aluminum Bone Lacing in our games(1 essence, 15,000) would pay 10% less Essence(.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) , and 10% less nuyen(13,500). You can still Alpha grade this or whatnot(we calculated any alpha grade stuff after the first reduction, since that is now the base, essentially.)

Someone with 2 legs, an arm, and a torso getting Aluminum Bone lacing would have a 20% discount-netting them .6 essence for the last arm(i know, it sounds like a lot for one arm...but picture the head in there too and it feels better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), and 12,000 nuyen. (Hey, extra work, i guess.) It's not an uber-crapload of a discount, but it seems to work, and this way you aren't paying for crap that isn't there.

[Casper]

So if you have full body, Torso and limbs included, replaced and you want to buy things like muscle aug and orthoskin why wouldnt you just but strenth and armor mods for the limbs and torso.

[Platinum Dragon]

So if you have full body, Torso and limbs included, replaced and you want to buy things like muscle aug and orthoskin why wouldnt you just but strenth and armor mods for the limbs and torso.

I think he was more refering to full body bioware (muscle toner, orthoskin, etc...) when you don't have a full body (one cyberlimb).

And since it only matters when you have cyberlimbs and bioware, I'd say it's all but factored into the 50% essence reduction on the lower of the two totals (getting muscle toner in your one remaining non-cyberlimb would only cost half the essence, etc...). House-ruling the cost down is fine, but I don't see the need personally.

[de4dmeta1]

I think he was more refering to full body bioware (muscle toner, orthoskin, etc...) when you don't have a full body (one cyberlimb).

And since it only matters when you have cyberlimbs and bioware, I'd say it's all but factored into the 50% essence reduction on the lower of the two totals (getting muscle toner in your one remaining non-cyberlimb would only cost half the essence, etc...). House-ruling the cost down is fine, but I don't see the need personally.

I think that both of you mis-interpreted what I meant. I was simply referring to full-body augmentations in general, both cyber and bio. Things like Muscle Replacement, Bone Lacing and Dermal Plating, as well as Orthoskin and Muscle Toner. The common thread between them being that they modify the entirety of someone's meatbody, and the question being how one would handle them when not all of the meat is still there. Not so much of a question of cyber vs. bio, but more of metal vs. meat. Regardless of the source of the augmentation, if there's less to actually augment, what then?

[jago668]

Same cost. The implant procedure and specific hookups/tieins have to be modified to fit into a nonstandard setup. So any discount for using less material, etc would be offset by the increased difficulty. Now I'd be willing to give a very slight essence discount. Say maybe a 0.05 modifier per "limb" that isn't being modified. So 2 full cyber arms, and 2 full cyber legs would make cyber/bio implanted have an essence multiplier of 0.8. Obviously this would only apply to thing designed to hit the entire body. No discount for that datajack for having a cyber arm.

[Aaron]

Well, it occurs to me that the the owner of a Mini Cooper pays the same as the owner of a RAV 4x4 at the car wash.

[ElFenrir]

I could understand the same cost(again, we just use the SR3 Man and Machine rules for that, and like the discount), but less Essence just makes sense. Less of your body getting hammered with stuff=less invasive=less essence(again, from the M&M book). You're getting a hell of a lot less bone lacing in one arm than your whole body.

But whatever works at your table. None of the methods are wrong, really, you just have to figure out what works and makes the most sense to you.

[Stahlseele]

and if you don't like the essence discount, think about this: to GET the Essence-Discount, you first need to spend Essence on the Limbs, so in the end it more or less balances out again . .

[Aaron]

I could understand the same cost(again, we just use the SR3 Man and Machine rules for that, and like the discount), but less Essence just makes sense. Less of your body getting hammered with stuff=less invasive=less essence(again, from the M&M book). You're getting a hell of a lot less bone lacing in one arm than your whole body.

Er ... by that reasoning it seems that it might actually cost more Essence, as it's taking a greater percentage of what you've already lost.

[ElFenrir]

Perhaps. I guess logic aside, I just don't feel right charging full essence for a partial job. It existed in the old rules and worked fine, IMO. Again, I'd have an easier time charging the same amount of nuyen. Works fine at our table, and if it ain't broke, no need to fix it. The rule might not be for everyone, though.