 Do mirrors grant line of sight?, Can you cast a spell at a target in one? |
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 Dec 20 2003, 09:08 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 23-April 03 Member No.: 4,489  |
Just wondering if a mage can cast a spell at a target he sees in a mirror.
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Dec 20 2003, 09:34 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Fiber optics work too.
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Dec 20 2003, 09:39 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 23-April 03 Member No.: 4,489 |
Thanks; just discovered it in the BBB too:
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Dec 20 2003, 09:56 AM
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#4
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Harlequin Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 331 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 861 |
Just remember that it might not work for elemental manipulation spells. Since they travel in a straight path between the caster and the target there can't be anything between the two of them.
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Dec 20 2003, 10:11 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
I still can't bring myself to accept optical implants allowing line of sight as anything more than a cheap gameplay balance.
Anyway, I'd imagine the fireball or suitable equivalent would just start traveling towards the target, and if a wall is between you and what's you're staring at through a light pipe, well, be prepared to get toasty. |
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Dec 20 2003, 10:39 AM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
why wouldn't optical implants work?
edit: er, why don't they make sense? |
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Dec 20 2003, 02:19 PM
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#7
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,547 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
By the by, in theory, with the right setup of mirrors and/or lenses, you could hit someone on another continent. The smart snipers are spell slingers ; )
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Dec 20 2003, 02:22 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Yeah, same question. You pay the essence for them, they're a part of you and your pattern. |
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Dec 20 2003, 04:11 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 26-July 03 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 5,029 |
I always thought that's what the difference was between Electronic Magnification and Optical Magnification: the latter allows spellcasters to use them for line-of-sight acquisition. Eletronic Magnification is cheaper but doesn't work for magic.
Am I out to lunch on this? |
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Dec 20 2003, 04:30 PM
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#10
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
The reason electronic mag is out is because they do not have LOS. optical mag is like wearing glasses
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Dec 20 2003, 05:03 PM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Electronic Mag does grant Line Of Sight, actually. But you still cant use it to zap someone w/ a manabolt. If I were to guess I'd say it samething to do w/ the difference between casting a manabolt at someone thru a pair of glasses (like, on your head) and zapping someone thru a close circut monitor. Then again, the mage did pay for even the E mag w/ essence. I dunno. I like the rule as it is. It adds flavor, I think. Logically, none of it should work. you can't wear glasses on the Astral... Oh, and for the mirror thing, I'd say it would work on everthing but damaging manipulations. As someone else said, if the macial effect starts at the caster and travels in a straight line...Besides that, Dam Manips work differently all together. If theres a bunch of goons hidding behind the next corner and you can smell 'em or whatever, lob a fireball against the far wall. WHOOSH. Crispy Goons.... |
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Dec 20 2003, 05:44 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
YAY! the good old "Why won't Electronic Vision Magnification grant LOS?" debait.
Shall I stir the pot by mentioning that thermographic and Low-Light vision cyber mods do grant LOS? This has been discussed several timeson these forums, I'd advise using the search function. I would look it up myself but I need to go soon. Mirrors do grant LOS, as do any purely optical systems (lenses ETC) but you can't shoot fireballs through glass or mirrors. I think that even putting a pinhole in the wall of a dark room and looking at the inverted image of the outside world on the far wall would work too. There's also the question of where a mage shoots fireballs from. Eyes? Hands? Feet? Arse? Can you choose any part of your body? Is it set by the spell formula you know? If hands, do gloves block it? |
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Dec 20 2003, 06:44 PM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You shoot it with your mind. Kill yaks from 300m with mind bullets.
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Dec 20 2003, 06:46 PM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
That's telekinesis, Kyle. Gotta make sure you're high above the mucky-muck when you try that, though.
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Dec 20 2003, 07:04 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 369 Joined: 1-September 03 From: New York State Member No.: 5,563 |
Fire ball appears where ever the mage decides it does. As long as he has line of sight he/she can make it show up where ever along that line. Just make sure your out side the blast radius.
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Dec 20 2003, 07:48 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 400 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 825 |
Not according to the "Elemenatal Manipulation Spells" section on p182. Glass and other obstructions will impede an elemental spell. The spell creates the effect, or part of it, and then directs it towards the target, just like any ranged attack. |
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Dec 20 2003, 08:08 PM
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#17
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
The difference in emag and optical is easy. Emag amplifies an image and then zooms in on it. Take your digital camera with zoom. It doesn't actually zoom in, it takes a sample of the image, blows it up, and reconstructs it digitally for a better image.
Optical mag uses lenses and mirrors to actually bring the light reflected from the target to your eyes. At least this is why I always have thought that emag didn't work for spellcasters. Your not really seeing the target, your seeing a digital recreation of the target. |
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Dec 20 2003, 09:47 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 26-July 03 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 5,029 |
Thanks Shadow, that's exactly how I imagined it too. That's why Low-Light works too: it amplifies exisiting light. What about Thermographic? That's a total reconstruction of the image... are you all sure that thermographic goggles / lenses / cybermods allow LOS for a mage?
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Dec 20 2003, 09:51 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Yup. I wouldn't make the spell not work however. So long as the spell in question can target objects as well, it will do all of its damage or effect to the view screen that the mage is using to 'snipe' with. Since technically, they'd be able to target what they're seeing (flat image of joe shadowrunner on a view screen)... just not what they think they're targetting (the real joe shadowrunner). That should make for a nice story when they think they're getting away with 1-mile sniping, only to find out that all they did was permanently singe all of the hair off their head and blow out their own eye. Maybe that's excessive, but in theory it seems to make sense to me. What do you guys think? |
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Dec 20 2003, 09:55 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 26-July 03 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 5,029 |
I think it's a great way to punish a PC who's been abusing LOS rules and unbalancing the game. Give 'im a warning and if that fails... hell yeah, blow out their cybereye / goggle / viewscreen next time. Serves 'im right.
However, I wouldn't just ambush a well-intentioned PC with this the first time: that strikes me as excessive. |
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Dec 20 2003, 10:07 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Or better yet, have an invincible hit team of grade 20 initiates and cyberzombies go after him. The sheer arrogance of using electronic magnification instead of optical is staggering. MAKE HIM PAY FOR HIS HUBRIS WITH DEATH.
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Dec 20 2003, 10:41 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
If you're looking at it with cybereyes, you're seeing a digital recreation of the target, regardless of what sort of magnification, if any, you're using. If cybereyes can be used for spell targetting in the first place, then any vision mod for which you paid Essence (that being the excuse used to allow cybereyes) should be usable for spell targetting. Allowing cybereyes with electronic magnification to be used for spell targetting makes sense. Disallowing cybereyes from being used for spell targetting at all makes sense. Allowing cybereyes but disallowing electronic magnification makes no sense. |
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Dec 20 2003, 11:17 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 348 Joined: 20-June 03 Member No.: 4,782 |
A rigger mage. Send out the mirror drones to aquire los on the target.
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Dec 21 2003, 05:13 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 26-July 03 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 5,029 |
Okay, what you're saying makes sense--but then why have two different kinds of Image Magnification technology? |
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Dec 21 2003, 05:25 AM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Bad game design that never got repaired? The same holds true for things like the Ares Viper Slivergun, too. (And no, let's not go there. I was just using it as an example.)
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