What do you think of Technomancers? Options

[sunnyside]

thought?

[Stahlseele]

the indifferent option is missing.
i ain't playing no SR4, but even if i did, technomancers would only concern me peripherically . .
if someone wants to play one, fine, let them have their fun, as long as i get to have my fun too.

[PlatonicPimp]

I like technomancers once a few tweaks have been made. Unwired went a long way to increasing their cool in my mind.

Personally I hate the radio thing, and replace it with the skinlink echo for all technos for free. I also hate paragons. Other than that, awesome.

Also, apparently they can lick god in the matrix. I wonder what he tastes like.

[ElFenrir]

Hehehe, godlicking is always fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Option I'd like missing. ''Great if built with Karmagen. Otherwise, let the buyer beware.''

Nah, you can scratch 'em out in the RAW..but they really do have problems with about everything else. I like 'em, personally.

[sunnyside]

Alright I'll resist the urge to pretend that wasn't a typo and I was refering to Pulsar or something. I should really proof my posts more...

[Glyph]

They are fine as an option for players, but they are not really my personal cup of tea. Too hyper-specialized for a matrix role, too hard to put a decent one together, and you need to know a whole new set of rules, just for them, in addition to the already confusing Matrix rules.

[Oenone]

I haven't had chance to play the one I've made yet, but they seem interesting from an roleplaying point of view.

Rules wise they aren't perfect, but Unwired has done a lot to make them more playable.

[Ryu]

Most of the issues my group had don´t exist under the karma system. You don´t have to choose between min/maxing and inefficiency, with no real steps inbetween. Unwired added loads of style, drawing fantasy-loving players into the matrix. So they are ok. You just need yourself a group that accepts guidelines on character development, power-wise. The munchkin potential is there, like with mages and riggers. Cooperative gaming is good.

[NightmareX]

Option not found.

They are too indistinct from a form of magic (fluff and mechanically speaking) and that is highly annoying. I could handle mechanical similarity, but the fluff similarity is just too much. IMO magic should never be able to directly affect the Matrix. Otherwise I just don't care about them.

[hermit]

They're either brokenly good at a task or totally suck, and that makes for bad gameplay

If not built with care and good knowledge of the rules (and Karmagen), they tend to suck the first 100 Karma, otherwise, you can forget having mundane hackers as opposition, because they're just gonna get trampled by Neo, the unstoppable god of the Matrix.

Related to:

My TM tries to get sprite bonuses on absolutly everything, drives me nuts

Machine sprites are seriously and totally broken. They make the Enhanced Atriculation and mnemonic booster in 3 look balanced by comparison.

Theri godlike matrix abilities cause problems in game

Technomancers built with Unwired and RC are unstoppable (save for other mancers). Not only can they hack into any computer in existence anywhere (read up on resonance quests), they can also vastly outpower mundane hackers and even adept hackers in terms of raw power wielded in the Matrix. Also, with well chosene chos, they can (until an errata clarifies) use several rules loopholes to thread their CFs infinitly and not suffer any mali.

They're lousy to have in a game

Conclusion of the above.

I miss the "it's a blatant Matrix rip-off and I think that's lame" option, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[GreyBrother]

Wouldn't want to miss them and i like my Technomancer. He isn't a god in the Matrix, nice built after a fluff project i continued from 3rd Edition and i look forward to my first submerge.
Don't know why some people call them Neo Rip-offs. Why didn't anybody say something similar about Otaku in SR3?

[Sir_Psycho]

My option was missing. From a fluff standpoint, I like them. I like their place in the world and their public image as presented in Emergence. However, in game terms, I wouldn't allow them to be played. Partly because their rules are too wierd. Mainly the idea of resonance quests. I can't reconcile the fact that they can some-how manifest in a computer that is separated from the matrix, and that they can recover peranently deleted or corrupted files.

This is because my perception of technomancers is not that they are magical. They are an aberration caused by the evolution of ASIST protocols, and the matrix absorbtion of the collective unconsciousness of matrix users (at least maybe) and an amalgamation of the biocomputer research carried out by figures like Halberstam, Deus, and Aztechnology. That's about as far as I go, and even that is to be held as mysterious and uncertain. The idea of them being able to appear in a computer inside a faraday cage a mile underground? That's complete fantasy, and therefore ruins the mystery.

So with the help of Emergence and my own imagination, I use them as a plot device. Something to intrigue the shadowrunners and contextualise them in the paranoid post-crash society they live in. I don't use them as magical matrix fairies.

[Wesley Street]

I like them just fine as NPCs. My players haven't chosen to create technomancers as PCs as of yet so I'll reserve judgment until I see them in action.

Godlicking. *slurp slurp*

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Option Missing: "I don't understand the rules AT ALL so they're NPC-only (if existant) and handwaved in my games."

[kzt]

Why didn't anybody say something similar about Otaku in SR3?

Because most people didn't run 10 year old characters? Or allow them in their game. Hence they didn't affect most games?

[Not of this Worl...]

Wouldn't want to miss them and i like my Technomancer. He isn't a god in the Matrix, nice built after a fluff projected i continued from 3rd Edition and i look forward to my first submerge.
Don't know why some people call them Neo Rip-offs. Why didn't anybody say something similar about Otaku in SR3?

Check the date on the first Matrix movie versus 2nd edition Otaku.

Otaku came first, so it is hard for Otaku to rip them off. It was also never specified in 2nd or 3rd edition for sure if they were magical or technological in nature. Plus while they were very powerful in the Matrix, there were many, many things far more powerful than them still (AIs for one, Ultraviolet hosts, SKs, and Psychotropic IC was always scary).

Plus most people just didn't play with one in the group.

P.S. - my vote was other - I play a different edition of SR.

[Cyntax]

I'd rather they just left the Otaku as they were.

[sunnyside]

Because most people didn't run 10 year old characters? Or allow them in their game. Hence they didn't affect most games?

Also I'm not so sure Otaku were all that potent in the matrix comparatively. I honestly don't remember, never had someone play one. They did make for fun fluff though.

[Fuchs]

I do not care about the stats, I hate the concept. Maybe I'll have one as an NPC for some creepy, "twilight zone" halloween special run, but not as a regular part of my SR world.

[GreyBrother]

Check the date on the first Matrix movie versus 2nd edition Otaku.

I see... VR 2.0 1995, Denver Sourcebook 1994 and Matrix 1999.

Doesn't explain the "Neo Rip-Off" for me, though. I can't see that much similarities except the Abilitie to "see" WiFi Signals.

[kzt]

I do not care about the stats, I hate the concept. Maybe I'll have one as an NPC for some creepy, "twilight zone" halloween special run, but not as a regular part of my SR world.

Indeed. They suck as a concept, as did Otaku.

[Fleinhoy]

option I'd like to pick missing:

Rules wise I don't know enough about them, but have to admit I don't like the concept: too similar to mages and hackers to suit the players who can't decide which one to play. They fall between the lines, and just feel like an unnesesary and artificial addition. Besides, I don't think magic (or something so similar) should be allowed to mess about with the matrix.


On the other hand, I have a certain soft-spot the idea that magic (let's call it that for simplicity’s sake) has evolved to fit the modern times, but this isn't outweighed by my initial and lasting dislike.

[DireRadiant]

Technomancers are nigh unto gods of the matrix. The matrix is almost everywhere. Repent!

[Cain]

Also I'm not so sure Otaku were all that potent in the matrix comparatively. I honestly don't remember, never had someone play one. They did make for fun fluff though.

An otaku under SR3 could start with a Computer skill of 8, and the karma costs for Submersion weren't nearly as steep as a Submersion + Resonance increase for technomancers. Also, otaku could benefit from cyber without harming their abilities. They were physically weak, so they were always limited in scope; but they were very good at running the matrix. A tricked-out otaku could run circles around all but the best deckers; they made up for this by being one-trick ponies, though.

[Particle_Beam]

I do not care about the stats, I hate the concept. Maybe I'll have one as an NPC for some creepy, "twilight zone" halloween special run, but not as a regular part of my SR world.

That's a pity. I like the idea of people who are inexplicably connected to the matrix somehow, without it being really magic. Rules-wise, they seem subpar (at least presented in the BBB).