What do you think of Technomancers? Options

[GreyBrother]

In what way are Technomancers better than Otaku?

I can't answer this. I don't see any sense in any possible answer, sorry. Maybe another user can provide a more useful information.

Thank for the Info, Cain and Not of this World. The more i rethink it, the more i tinker with the Idea how to rewrite Otakus for the 4th Edition.

Cain: In Unwired, Technomancers gain the possibilitie to learn an Echo called "Biowires", so they can have a Skillwires equivalent equal his Submersion Grade (capped at 4). Then they just have to buy the Skillsoft, thread it and can use the skillsoft. It's not that much of a gamebreaker, IMHO.

[Cain]

Cain: In Unwired, Technomancers gain the possibilitie to learn an Echo called "Biowires", so they can have a Skillwires equivalent equal his Submersion Grade (capped at 4). Then they just have to buy the Skillsoft, thread it and can use the skillsoft. It's not that much of a gamebreaker, IMHO.

It doesn't sound like a gamebreaker; but there are many other implants that could improve a TM's abilities. The problem is, they can't get them without taking a hit to their Resonance. I also don't have my books handy; so I'm wondering exactly how much karma they'd need to spend to have the equivalent of Rating 4 skillwires. If I did a BP comparison, would it even out?

Edit: I'm also wondering about another character type, the skillwire decker. Basically, he has the skills to program his own skillsofts, saving him lots of money. Using this Echo, do they use normal skillsofts? Because if so, they can't code their own skillsofts, as the TM computer skills are incompatible with normal commlinks.

[Icephisherman]

Keep in mind that the +2 dice that both hackers and technomancers can achieve from running hot sim is that technomancers can do this all the time and hackers do so at their own risk of BTL addiction. A hacker should not be allowed to run hot sim all of the time without serious consequences. Even limited use should require addiction tests.

And yes, while they are tremendous karma sinks they still tend to accumulate cash quite quickly. And when they start to submerge they are just able to do so many more things than a hacker could ever achieve.

[GreyBrother]

Cain: Yes, they use normal skillsofts. But can't they code regular programs with their own Software Skill?

[NightmareX]

The human mind interpreting machine code as a religious/spiritual experience.

Computer bits make a character code --> Character code makes a program --> Programs make a system --> Overlapping and connected systems make the Matrix --> Where bits of broken code (like junk DNA) join up with other bits of broken code and half-working programs and systems to make new and "alien" programs, systems and experiences you get the Resonance Realms. It's like a Mutant Internet where the beauty is in the chaos of it all.

Um, yeah, I design and code websites all day. *cough* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif)

Wes, that was unbelievably beautiful. You sir have just saved the lives of countless technos and AIs in my campaign world (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Cain]

And yes, while they are tremendous karma sinks they still tend to accumulate cash quite quickly. And when they start to submerge they are just able to do so many more things than a hacker could ever achieve.

The problem is this: What levels of Submersion are required for TM's to equal/exceed a normal decker? I think it was Frank Trollman who put it at several hundred karma or more for them to reach a point that deckers couldn't. That's outside the range of a normal campaign, and the game wasn't playtested at those levels. Also, a decker will be improving with karma as well; a 500 karma decker with equivalent cash will likely still be a formidable challenge for a 500 karma TM.

Cain: Yes, they use normal skillsofts. But can't they code regular programs with their own Software Skill?

Not if I recall correctly. I don't have my book on hand, so someone else will need to double-check me.

[Wesley Street]

Wes, that was unbelievably beautiful. You sir have just saved the lives of countless technos and AIs in my campaign world (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Just call me the Shadowrun Oscar Schindler. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Jaid]

Not if I recall correctly. I don't have my book on hand, so someone else will need to double-check me.

the skills are different, but mostly they are used for the same thing.

that is, your hacking skill is different, but when you use it to exploit a system, while you are using a 'different' skill with a CF instead of a program as a technomancer, the outcome is the same.

likewise, you can use the technomancer software skill to program normal stuff. most technomancers will probably consider that to be a slow, clumsy, distasteful thing to do, but it can be done. and of course, it's not as if they have a better use for their money anyways, whereas a technomancer can turn time into registered sprites, so don't expect to see most TM players wasting their time programming their own activesofts anyways when they could just use their money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Draco18s]

Hope I'm not digging up something too old here, but here's my opinion (from having built a technomancer that looked ok, then had it fail miserably; I'd played hackers before). Note: CF = Complex Form (I hate writing it out).

Build costs:
Technomancers: 1 BP = rating 1 Exploit CF. Hacker: 1 BP = $5000 = rating 5 Exploit program. Seriously, WTF.

TMs use more stats across the board than nearly any other build (I.E. all four mental stats mean something that if the technomancer has +1 of, he's just that much better; only exception is CHA, which you can buy to 4, then spend the same 10 points on Natural Hardening, then raise CHA to 5 later--Natrual Hardening is a little hard to justify getting after char gen). This is above and beyond the points needed for CFs (by the way, if you have Logic 5 (or 6), don't bother with a CF rating 3 (4) or lower, just default and get the same dice).

Hacking:
In general doesn't use Logic (unless you're defaulting because you don't have a program/CF, which hackers apparently have to do all the time (local games never took system response times into account, it was too messy to deal with), TM less so, but still to some extent). This has never made sense to me (a smart hacker is just as good as an idiot with money, which the idiot is more likely to have more of). Example: Google. Google is a powerful search program, but I still have to wade through the results and the higher my intelect the better search terms I can give and the more false positives I can skip over without needing to examine them with more than a glance.

Hacking on the Fly is made of failure, always. NO ALWAYS. Systems you're trying to get into nearly always has more dice against a lower threshhold than you do.

Effectiveness:
Compared to a hacker, they lose, hands down all the time. Hacker has more money to throw at programs at char gen and doesn't need as many attributes (willpower and intuition, some logic all others can be dumped for points if you're min-maxing to the extreme and has no Resonance attribute, those points can instead got to Edge or elsewhere if the TM bought edge).

I can not find a printed rules advantage to being a technomancer over a hacker except possibly being able to run more programs (one, maybe two unless the hacker spends a pile of money OH WAIT THEY HAVE IT TO SPARE UNLESS THEY BOUGHT FOUR DRONES WITH MINIGUNS, which by the way, own face against everything not in the matrix individually).

[Tsithlis]

Effectiveness:
Compared to a hacker, they lose, hands down all the time. Hacker has more money to throw at programs at char gen and doesn't need as many attributes (willpower and intuition, some logic all others can be dumped for points if you're min-maxing to the extreme and has no Resonance attribute, those points can instead got to Edge or elsewhere if the TM bought edge).

Okay I have to respectfully disagree here.

Hacker
Exploit program of 5 (restricted to 5 because of the response rating of commlink unless restricted gear is taken during char gen) but lets say 6.
Hacking skill of 5 (unless 8 more BP for 6 and then perhaps a specialty for 2 more) so lets say 6 (8)
Stealth program of 5 (again unless restricted gear) lets say 6 again.

Now Hacker rolls 8 hacking + 6 exploit + 2 for VR just for fun for a total of 16 dice
Node gets a Firewall + Analyze needs only 6 successes to detect the hacker

Technomancer
Charisma 7 elf (this is important later)
Exploit Program of 5 (not enough BP for higher because resonance would have to be bought to 6)
Hacking skill of 5 (7) (again BP is in short supply)
Compiling 5 (7)
Registering 5 (7)

Now here is the difference
Technomancer Threads his exploit program to 8 with 7 charisma and 5 resonance he can buy 3 dice for the drain and take no drain damage
Exploit now = 8
Technomancer has a Registered sprite add its 5 rating to exploit
Exploit now = 13
Technomancer repeats this process with stealth
Stealth = 13

Technomancer now rolls 13 exploit, + 7 Hacking, + 2 from paragon, +2 from VR for 24 dice (You could buy 6 successes with that many which is the highest firewall a system can have barring SOTA or Military Technology)
Node gets a Firewall + Analyze (usually max 12 dice) against a 13 stealth

With this analysis I can't see how they loose hands down "every time". You also have to remember they may only be able to buy a firearms skill of 1 at chargen but machine sprites go a long way to making them viable in the real world. Also remember that since Technomancer CF's are not restricted by their response ratings and whatnot their mental attributes don't have to be "maxxed" at chargen. This gives a bit of wiggle room for later on.

[Nigel]

Rules aside, I absolutely love technomancers. But I started in SR4 and haven't played older editions with Otaku. They just seem so amazing to me, the concept of them...reminds me if I were alive during that time (which was actually suggested to me by a friend, that I was a technomancer).

In the rules, I like threading a lot - it's unique, versatile, and relatively powerful. Sprites are an obvious ripoff of spirits, though they don't take karma to register, which makes them more powerful as a TM with nothing but time can make infinite sprites, theoretically. I don't like how implants reduce Resonance, and I don't like the internal commlink bit. I think they should have the benefits as they do now, but require hardware to connect to the matrix. I also think they shouldn't have to worry about augmentation in terms of reducing Resonance.

[Rasumichin]

Besides the fact that i really enjoyed the TM fluff in UW, TMs aren't that bad ruleswise, really- when you make decent use of sprites and threading, possibly also widgets, they'll pwn most hackers in the matrix.
Totally.

Yes, they pay more for their CFs than a hacker pays for their programs- that's because they can boost them to levels no hacker could ever dream of.

Also, after submerging, they are able to pull of stunts nobody else can do, like resonance realm searches.
They can get nifty echos, eg completely blur their matrix signature or just mask as somebody else entirely without even having to bother about spoofing that.
And so on.

Plus, sprite bonds (even more than sprites in general) offer insane possiblities.
Just get a networking bond with a Edge1 sprite, constantly reassemble it during downtime and soon, you won't have to worry about your CFs any more, as you can access every complex form your spoon-fed supersprite has (it's not that hard to bring it up to Rating 8, high Edge, tons of powers and every CF and skill available to one of your sprites at 5 or greater - it's just a matter of time and countles registered sprites sacrificed to your new friend).
And even before that, you can spare a lot of CFs and even a lot of matrix skills because your sprites can do it for you.

As a downside to this, TMs are highly specialized, of course- building a hacker who is useful outside of the matrix is so much easier.
But it has to be, as otherwise, there'd mechanically be absolutely no point in playing a hacker (besides access to botnets, worms and malware).


Oh, and yes, the whole TM chapter in Unwired is, as far as i'm concerned, probably the most captivating and vibrant part in all of the book (besides matrix phenomena and sprites...you see where this leads).
I also liked the otaku in SR2, we had a technoshaman in our group for some time back then, but TMs offer so many more possibilities, both as far as as crunchy gameplay and roleplaying the interaction with their paragon and their subculture is concerned.

[Gast]

I argued a lot about that, and I don't like them fluff-wise because I think this spontaneous evolution is not only implausible, but tends to diminish the parts of Shadowrun that are Cyberpunk. If Man can evolve to fit new environments that fast, the cold Cybernetic dream of replacing yourself to upgrade to transhumanity is pointless.
Maybe there will be a totally convincing explanation for this in the future, but as it is, I don't like Technomancers because they're just another gimmick the world didn't really need.

[Ryu]

Plus, sprite bonds (even more than sprites in general) offer insane possiblities.
Just get a networking bond with a Edge1 sprite, constantly reassemble it during downtime and soon, you won't have to worry about your CFs any more, as you can access every complex form your spoon-fed supersprite has (it's not that hard to bring it up to Rating 8, high Edge, tons of powers and every CF and skill available to one of your sprites at 5 or greater - it's just a matter of time and countles registered sprites sacrificed to your new friend).

You so need to have an Aztlan culture-based Reality Filter for that TM...

[Cain]

Oh, gods, we have MECHA-BLOODZILLA!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Draco18s]

Okay I have to respectfully disagree here.

Hacker
Exploit program of 5 (restricted to 5 because of the response rating of commlink unless restricted gear is taken during char gen) but lets say 6.
Hacking skill of 5 (unless 8 more BP for 6 and then perhaps a specialty for 2 more) so lets say 6 ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Stealth program of 5 (again unless restricted gear) lets say 6 again.

Now Hacker rolls 8 hacking + 6 exploit + 2 for VR just for fun for a total of 16 dice
Node gets a Firewall + Analyze needs only 6 successes to detect the hacker

Falacy: You can't have a skill rank above 6 for a starting character and if you're a hacker you'll be buying the skill group which has a maximum rank of 4. Buying rating 6 programs at start isn't easy either, there are 7 or 8 that the hacker would want to buy at $6000 each. Every $1000 he saves (getting a 5 instead of 6) means he can buy something else.

Even with Stealth of 6, the node has Firewall (5) plus Analyze (5):
Hacker: 9 dice vs. 5
Node: 10 dice vs. 5

Technomancer
Charisma 7 elf (this is important later)
Exploit Program of 5 (not enough BP for higher because resonance would have to be bought to 6)
Hacking skill of 5 (7) (again BP is in short supply)
Compiling 5 (7)
Registering 5 (7)

Now here is the difference
Technomancer Threads his exploit program to 8 with 7 charisma and 5 resonance he can buy 3 dice for the drain and take no drain damage
Exploit now = 8
Technomancer has a Registered sprite add its 5 rating to exploit
Exploit now = 13
Technomancer repeats this process with stealth
Stealth = 13

Technomancer now rolls 13 exploit, + 7 Hacking, + 2 from paragon, +2 from VR for 24 dice (You could buy 6 successes with that many which is the highest firewall a system can have barring SOTA or Military Technology)
Node gets a Firewall + Analyze (usually max 12 dice) against a 13 stealth

With this analysis I can't see how they loose hands down "every time". You also have to remember they may only be able to buy a firearms skill of 1 at chargen but machine sprites go a long way to making them viable in the real world. Also remember that since Technomancer CF's are not restricted by their response ratings and whatnot their mental attributes don't have to be "maxxed" at chargen. This gives a bit of wiggle room for later on.

Build points to build your Hacker above: 45 points or less (buying the one skill instead of the group is cheaper).
Build points you spent on your TM: 130 points or more (did not calculate skill groups) and is good at ONE thing (breaking in), good luck Decrypting data, Encrypting it, Spoofing your trail, or Defusing data bombs, much less participating in Cybercombat.

Now, getting into the details.
First: Not everyone is going to play an elf, here you're just twinking. This is not an average build.
Second: Threading TWO programs at the same time subtracts 2 dice from the hacking attempt (sure, you're threading Hacking and that doesn't impinge your ability, but Threading Stealth will).
Third: Paragon, that's a Quality from a book I did not have until about 3am last night building a different character for a different game. I have no idea what this does due to the poor wording of the book.
Fourth: Firewall (6) is not the highest you can get non-military. You have a copy of Unwired (see third point above), check page 78 on the sample systems. I see a Firewall 9 on there.
Fifth: Your method here uses sprites, reading over them carefully they don't stick around for long--even if you register them--which means you'll be spending half your free time making more of them and registering them. Secondly to me the way sprites work for skills is broken (especially given your summation on how to use them).

[Tsithlis]

Falacy: You can't have a skill rank above 6 for a starting character and if you're a hacker you'll be buying the skill group which has a maximum rank of 4. Buying rating 6 programs at start isn't easy either, there are 7 or 8 that the hacker would want to buy at $6000 each. Every $1000 he saves (getting a 5 instead of 6) means he can buy something else.

Even with Stealth of 6, the node has Firewall (5) plus Analyze (5):
Hacker: 9 dice vs. 5
Node: 10 dice vs. 5

Build points to build your Hacker above: 45 points or less (buying the one skill instead of the group is cheaper).
Build points you spent on your TM: 130 points or more (did not calculate skill groups) and is good at ONE thing (breaking in), good luck Decrypting data, Encrypting it, Spoofing your trail, or Defusing data bombs, much less participating in Cybercombat.

Now, getting into the details.
First: Not everyone is going to play an elf, here you're just twinking. This is not an average build.
Second: Threading TWO programs at the same time subtracts 2 dice from the hacking attempt (sure, you're threading Hacking and that doesn't impinge your ability, but Threading Stealth will).
Third: Paragon, that's a Quality from a book I did not have until about 3am last night building a different character for a different game. I have no idea what this does due to the poor wording of the book.
Fourth: Firewall (6) is not the highest you can get non-military. You have a copy of Unwired (see third point above), check page 78 on the sample systems. I see a Firewall 9 on there.
Fifth: Your method here uses sprites, reading over them carefully they don't stick around for long--even if you register them--which means you'll be spending half your free time making more of them and registering them. Secondly to me the way sprites work for skills is broken (especially given your summation on how to use them).

I am not sure what you mean by fallacy, the 8 Dice the hacker was using for hacking was coming from a hacking 6 with a specialization in Exploit giving him 8 dice.

Sprites that are registered stick around forever until you ask them to do a task and it only takes 2 complex actions to compile and register one so in full VR thats less than 3 seconds meaning I will not be
using hardly any free time getting to my max.

Playing an elf is not twinking, thats like saying because you play a troll street sam your twinking. Certain races are good at certain things that has the added side effect of making them live longer in the shadows this dosen't make you a twink. Yes not everyone will play an elf but I do so that's what I was basing the comparison on since I was trying to use the max dice possible from each "class".

I did make the mistake on the threading stealth but even without it you have a stealth of 10 which is still considerably higher than the max of 6 for normal hackers and if you do still want to thread stealth you have a stealth 13 and a 22 hacking dice pool instead of 24.

Technomancers don't need a ton of CF's because they can summon sprites that use those CF's for them. Really all they need is Armour, Shield, Attack, Analyze, Exploit, and Stealth everything else can be covered by sprites.

I was really only trying to say that starting with basic 400BP characters Hackers are not going to be able to come close to a technomancer inside the matrix. Now with all the BP that they save they can become dual classed and do soo much more in the meat world, but that dosen't make them better than technomancers just a different choice.

[Tsithlis]

Rules aside, I absolutely love technomancers. But I started in SR4 and haven't played older editions with Otaku. They just seem so amazing to me, the concept of them...reminds me if I were alive during that time (which was actually suggested to me by a friend, that I was a technomancer).

In the rules, I like threading a lot - it's unique, versatile, and relatively powerful. Sprites are an obvious ripoff of spirits, though they don't take karma to register, which makes them more powerful as a TM with nothing but time can make infinite sprites, theoretically. I don't like how implants reduce Resonance, and I don't like the internal commlink bit. I think they should have the benefits as they do now, but require hardware to connect to the matrix. I also think they shouldn't have to worry about augmentation in terms of reducing Resonance.

I agree with you here, and I played in SR3 with Otaku. I really enjoy the concept behind technomancers and I really don't care how its explained (biology or magic). The idea of the body evolving a nervous system and a neurological structure that can see and interact with radio frequencies dosen't seem like that far out there to me. I know that Sharks have a thing called electroreception that allows them to "see" electromagnetic fields produced by other creatures. So the idea that humans can evolve such a trait dosen't seem so far fetched to me. Besides all that though I just like the "Idea" of technomancers and they appeal to the way I enjoy the game. I don't agree on augmentation reducing resonance though I think it should reduce resonance. The idea behind the technomancers ability (be it magical or biological) is that his nervous system is the main antenna. Almost any change in the bodies structure will disrupt its nervous system and disrupt the ability to "see" using it creating blindspots and dead areas. This would make it very logical for augmentations to reduce resonance (resonance magical or mundane simply representing the strength of the technomancer's antenna). Ohh and actually bonding spirits dosen't take Karma either but it does cost a small amount of money.

[Draco18s]

I am not sure what you mean by fallacy, the 8 Dice the hacker was using for hacking was coming from a hacking 6 with a specialization in Exploit giving him 8 dice.

You can't HAVE Skill Rank 6 Hacking at char gen. You get one skill at 6 OR two at 5. Hacking is part of an extremely useful skill group, cough cough, max 4 ranks. Specialty gets you to 6.

Playing an elf is not twinking, thats like saying because you play a troll street sam your twinking.

Fine, but it doesn't make for a "here's an average example of a character someone might build." Instead you didn't care about BP or well roundedness and instead threw every point you could into Exploit/Hacking. That does not give a balanced idea of where one character stands in terms of another. It's like my building a troll to survive a fall from orbit and claiming he's a good tank because look at how much damage he can shrug off despite his inability to carry or use a gun of any kind.

Technomancers don't need a ton of CF's because they can summon sprites that use those CF's for them. Really all they need is Armour, Shield, Attack, Analyze, Exploit, and Stealth everything else can be covered by sprites.

Which seems strange to me, Logic 5 gives you 10 complex forms of which you don't use half of them.

I was really only trying to say that starting with basic 400BP characters Hackers are not going to be able to come close to a technomancer inside the matrix. Now with all the BP that they save they can become dual classed and do soo much more in the meat world, but that dosen't make them better than technomancers just a different choice.

My point was that to be as effective of a character you have to spend upwards of two or three times as many BP to be "as good as." Sure, min-maxing you can be retardedly good at one thing, but god help you if you need to do something else. Which you will if your GM isn't brain damaged.

My character was built with the idea that he hadn't been a technomancer long, and as such didn't compile sprites because he hadn't learned their usefulness yet, only to find out that in order to be competent he needed them only to find out here that using them moves you above "competent" to "game breaking."

[Ol' Scratch]

You can't HAVE Skill Rank 6 Hacking at char gen. You get one skill at 6 OR two at 5. Hacking is part of an extremely useful skill group, cough cough, max 4 ranks. Specialty gets you to 6.

Emphasis mine. It's kind of embarrassing when you prove yourself wrong in the same breath you used to scream out a completely and utterly wrong bit of information.

[Cain]

Sprites that are registered stick around forever until you ask them to do a task and it only takes 2 complex actions to compile and register one so in full VR thats less than 3 seconds meaning I will not be
using hardly any free time getting to my max.

Wrong. It takes a number of hours equal to the Force of the sprite to bind it.

[faultline]

Option I'd like to pick missing: Unsure as of yet, Haven't seen one in action.

I've got someone in my soon to be starting game playing one. So far his build looks good (As do all the other PC builds) but we'll see how everything works out once the game is up and running.

[Tsithlis]

Wrong. It takes a number of hours equal to the Force of the sprite to bind it.

You right mate I completely missed that one thinking it was the same as compiling. Thanks for that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tsithlis]

You can't HAVE Skill Rank 6 Hacking at char gen. You get one skill at 6 OR two at 5. Hacking is part of an extremely useful skill group, cough cough, max 4 ranks. Specialty gets you to 6

Which seems strange to me, Logic 5 gives you 10 complex forms of which you don't use half of them.

My point was that to be as effective of a character you have to spend upwards of two or three times as many BP to be "as good as." Sure, min-maxing you can be retardedly good at one thing, but god help you if you need to do something else. Which you will if your GM isn't brain damaged.

First of all the skill group is called Cracking, you can't have cracking higher than 4, Hacking can be a 6 with a specialty in exploit

Second I rarely have a logic of 5 since complex forms are not limited by system rating as are programs SR4 (233). I usually have a 3 meaning I can have the 6 complex forms I mentioned as well as 20 more points to spend elsewhere.

Third yes my character is not maxxed in hacking I actually have a 4 cracking, 4 electronics, 1 Firearms, 1 influence and 4 dodge, With my level 4 emotitoy, machine sprites, and a 7 charisma I tend to be a good face, decent in combat and much better at matrix combat, hacking, and coding than any out of the box hacker. Yes you have to spend more karma than a hacker but that dosen't make you a 1 trick pony.

[knasser]

Technomancers. The cold pizza of Shadowrun archetypes.

I've never heard it put better.

But at the risk of seeming arbitrary, I'll give my reasons for not liking TMs (in fact, they don't exist in my campaign).

The first reason is personal taste: I like the strong distinction between magic and machine that has existed since 1st edition. TM's violate that and also bring in the problem of magic people being better than mundanes. Developers have posted here on Dumpshock that TM's are not magic, but despite their protestations, we have a number of heavy-duty reasons why people will believe that they are: the fluff, the mechanics, the ability to do things that cannot be justified by the laws of physics as we know it (most of SR tech is of a "we can't do it" nature rather than a "it can't be done" nature but TM's are squarely in the second category), their ability to do things that cannot be justified by the "laws" of the Matrix as we know it - quests to recover deleted data, etc., the ability to carry out actions that technically adept non-Technomancers cannot, e.g. perceive attributes of the software environment, contact software entities (e.g. sprites). Some of the things can be justified with the bio-computer nervous system explanation but only with effort and sometimes not at all. Quite simply, TM's come across as magic and I don't like magicians dominating magic and technology, both.

My second reason is one of the effect on different players. TM's negate a standard SR archetype - the Hacker - by their very existence. In the rules sense, no mundane hacker, no matter how much they may want to play the archetype of the brilliant programmer / genius / obsessive programmer, will ever be able to beat the TM at what the TM chooses they'll be good at. It doesn't matter as much what the karma costs are, as it does that the territory of "the best" is clearly the TM's. The Hacker is relegated to the jack of all trades. You can play that, but if your preference is to play someone who's good, bad luck - you've just been shown as always second best. Leaving aside the rules, they also make the Hacker less viable simply via fluff. You can be a character that studied programming all your life and knows the Matrix code inside and out, a six year old child can be a TM that will become one with the Matrix in a way that you are forbidden to ever come close to. Quite simply, the existence of TM's makes the Hacker, regardless of game balance, the also ran. I really don't like that.

That's pretty much it for me. It's never been an issue as no-one has ever wanted to play one. Which is also a tangential problem because Synner is dropping hints that TM's and Resonance is going to be one of the big metaplots of 4e. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) You only have to look at the adventure framework Emergence to see how irritating it is when an entire campaign revolves around how special a particular type of person is. TMs = X-Men, non-TM's = Bobby's Parents. Either you don't have any TM's in your group in which case everything is slightly remote, or you have one in the party and they get to be the central character thematically (which is bad whether the player is a glory-hog or a wall-flower).

Technomancers. Bleh! I think the Devs are too in love with their child to see how ugly it really is.

My personal opinions of course. I recognize not everyone feels that way, but at least they are derived logically from the facts of the matter.

-K.