Can this character survive?, Too much of a generalist? Options

[JonathanC]

The backstory is that Zafira grew up in Iraq or a similar Middle Eastern country. At an early age her parents, who were rather poor, had to sell her. She was fortunate enough that the crimelord who picked her up was a cousin, and somewhat fond of her; also fortunate was the fact that she was literate. She spent the next several years working as a combination secretary, accountant, and majordomo (well, minordomo would be more accurate, I guess). Her small stature also made her an ideal burglar, and she was trained to sneak into the compounds of her cousin's enemies to steal important documents. She also oversaw the books for gambling, weapon sales, and even human trafficking. It was the latter that would prove to be her undoing, in the end. As she saw more and more young children sold into the worst types of servitude, she always steeled herself with the thought 'better them than me'. That was, until the day that a childhood friend of her's, Umm Shayad, came through the office. She was to be re-sold to a wealthy prince who was rumored to engage in all manner of odd, cruel acts, including cannibalism. Shayad tried to escape, and was severely beaten in reprisal, nearly dying from her wounds.

That night, Zafira snuck Shayad out of the compound to get medical attention, telling herself that she was going to bring the girl back as soon as possible; her cousin would thank her, as he would be out of a lot of money if the girl died. Indeed, when he called her to find out what had happened, he sounded rather forgiving, and she could even hear him having the men who nearly killed his merchandise shot on the other end of the phone. "Just bring her back to me now...we'll take care of her privately" he said. "I'm sending the car. You've done a good thing." But Zafira couldn't bear to see her friend suffer any longer, and in a surprising act of bravado, she stole the car and drove the poor girl as far away as she could, escaping across northern Iraq to Turkey. It was during this trip that she lost her left hand, after a passing tribal policeman caught her siphoning fuel from his car. He would have done much worse afterward, but Zafira managed to escape. Now marked as a thief, it was much more difficult to travel, and her cousin's influence followed closely behind.

After a rough trip, the pair arrived in Turkey, where Zafira set upon the second part of her plan. She knew the details of her cousin's banking and money laundering schemes, and figured (correctly) that he didn't think enough of her to worry about her stealing the money in those accounts. She managed to drain a considerable sum of money, with the intent of escaping to America and establishing a new life. Sadly, this was not the case, as her cousin's men found the two girls in their safehouse. Shayad was still in poor shape, and Zafira did everything she could to shield her, distracting the men long enough for Shayad to escape with enough certified cred to escape the country. Zafira still has no idea where Shayad is. During the commotion, the police arrived and arrested everyone who remained, including Zafira. She tried to explain the situation, but with her missing hand she was dismissed as a liar and a thief, and possibly worse. Her cousin, through his contacts in the Iraqi police, arranged to have her extradited. Just prior to transferring her, however, the Turkish police severed her right hand during a public display intended to discourage a rising tide of youth crime. Luckily for her, the public dismembering came under attack and she was able to escape in the confusion. Bleeding badly, she managed to drag herself to a sympathetic street doc. With what remained of the money she'd stolen, Zafira managed to buy replacement hands, and a few more modifications to protect herself; she'd been bullied for long enough. She also got as far away from the Middle East as she could, working as a professional burglar in Israel, then moving briefly to Western Europe, and finally to Los Angeles, where she has begun taking shadow work as a Face and Infiltrator.

Zafira 400 points

Body 3
Agility 5
Reaction 3
Strength 3
Charisma 4
Logic 3
Intuition 3
Willpower 3
190
Essence 3.10
Edge 3

Negative Qualities
Enemy (connection 3/incidence 2) Ali Ben Saiyyid 5 points
Wanted 10 points

Contacts 10 points
Jorge Santiago, Dock foreman Connection 2 Loyalty 2
Jamal Tamir (Talent Agent) Connection 4 Loyalty 2

SKILLS
Stealth SKill Group 4 (40)
Disguise
Infiltration 5 (4 more points)
Palming
Shadowing
Athletics SKill Group 1 (10)
Climbing
Gymnastics
Running
Swimming
Influence Skill Group 3 (30)
Con
Etiquette
Leadership
Negotiation (bargaining) 3/5 2 points
Pistols (semi-automatics) 4/6 (14 points)
Exotic Melee Weapon - Monofilament Whip 4 (16 points)
Pilot Ground Craft (wheeled) 2 (4) [14]
Hardware (Maglocks) 4/6 [18]
Locksmith 4 [16]
Perception (hearing) 2/4 (10 points)
Electronic Warfare 3 [14 points]

Obvious Cyberhand (agility 5) 14250 total
Hermes Ikon Commlink implanted
Datajack
Fingertip Compartment

Obvious Cyberhand 5000 nuyen capacity 4
(customized agility 5 +3000 nuyen, modular cyberlimb [multiply by 1.1 for final cost]) Final cost 8,800 nuyen
Scanner System Rating 4 2000 nuyen, Holdout Pistol 800 nuyen
Plugins:
Welding Laser 3000 nuyen
Drone Hand 3500 nuyen

Wired Reflexes 2

Varshon Island Steampunk Line 2000 nuyen total
Overcoat 3/3 1000 nuyen
Corset 2/2 600 nuyen
Slacks 1/1 400 nuyen

Contact Lenses 375n
Vision Enhancement 3
Image Link

Goggles 1550n
Smartlink
Ultrasound

Lockpick Set 300

Grapple Gun 500

Microwire (100m) 50

Rappeling Gloves 70

Monofilament Whip 3000

Ares Predator 350
50 rounds of regular ammo 100
50 rounds of gel rounds 150
5 spare clips 25
Quick-Draw Holster 100

Actioneer Business Clothes 1,500

Novatech Navi OS 1500
Firewall 6 Upgrade 3000
Command 400
Scan 400
Encrypt 400
Sniffer 4 4000

Fake SIN Rating 4 4000
Fake Driver's License 400
Fake Gun License 400
Hardware Kit 500

Earbuds 10
Audio Enhancement 3 300
Spatial Recognizer 100


(18 points = 90,000) 89,830


Middle Lifestyle 5k 1BP

[BishopMcQ]

Pistols (semi-automatics) 4/6 (14 points)
Should be 18 pts

Otherwise, it feels like a balanced generalist and all-around criminal type. She can fit in with nearly any group and with some karma under her belt, adapt into any role needed except for Magic talent. There are a few optimizations that you could make, but those are based off of personal play-style and preferences.

[JonathanC]

She'll be the closest the group has to a face. And yeah, I think I made a note about the changed cost....geez, now I have to redo all of my math...

[sunnyside]

If the group needs a face this is good.

Also you'll tend to do better in a smaller group. But regardless they're plenty playable.

Also one thing that will make this character better in the long run is that you haven't done the typical thing of loading up on cyberware.

What that means is that this character has more room to grow as cash comes in.

However I always suggest getting the limit on negative qualities. If you don't know what to take ask your GM. They're often more than happy to come up with some fun stuff for you, and they shouldn't feel like your powergaming with a character like this.


Do what you will with the extra, but a solid choice would be putting edge to a respectable 5. Or increase one of your attributes. Perception is also an incredibly useful thing to have for an inflitrator or face. You're out in front. You need to see trouble or you'll take a hurting (depending on GM).

[Jackstand]

Stealth SKill Group 4 (40)
Disguise
Infiltration 5 (4 more points)
Palming
Shadowing

I guess it depends on your GM, but not everyone will let you split the group.

[Cain]

I don't have the time to completely dissect the character, but here's what I see:

You want a combination Face/Infiltrator. This is a good concept, but your dice pools are small.

For example, you have a dice pool of 10 for Infiltration. That's not too bad, but it's opposed by Perception, and it's fairly easy to pump up a perception dice pool. I also don't see anything that'd help your Infiltration pool, like camo clothing. Your Shadowing dice pool is even smaller; it's 7 dice, because shadowing goes off Intuition. Given an average target (Intuition 3 and Perception 3, no other modifiers), you only have a 1 die advantage, which doesn't even translate to a single extra success. If he has anything to boost his dice pool (like Vision Enhancement), you're pretty much stuck.

The big catch here are your social skills. You only have a dice pool of 9 in your highest area: Negotiation/Bargaining. The Mr. Johnson in the book has a dice pool of 10. You're not going to be able to regularly get extra money or information out of a Johnson. And that, of course, assumes that he doesn't have anything else boosting his dice pool, such as emotoys or Tailored Phermones. The rest of your social skills cap out at 7, which also isn't enough to reliably succeed in many social tests.

Now, there's lots of ways of pumping a social dice pool, I already listed two. I'd definitely go back and see if you can afford to pick up any of them. You want at least a dice pool of 12 in anything opposed in order for your character to be truly effective in an average game. You've got reasonable skills for a secondary character; but to reliably take the lead, you're going to need more.

[CanRay]

Being a Generalist is never a bad thing. Sure you're not as good as a person that's dedicated a lot of time and effort into training just ONE thing, but you can do so much more.

If all you have are drivers and gunners, and the engine or transmission on the "Vehicle of Death" blows on you, you're screwed.

More importantly, in my mind at least, is that your character has an EXCELLENT backstory! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[masterofm]

Wired reflexes adds to your reaction by 2 I think it is nice to show that on your character sheet. There are other cyber/bioware combos that you can follow up on this character later to improve dice quickly, but it might be nice to try maybe skillwires for some of the more generalist skills to allow you to buff you main set of stats quicker?

[Cain]

Being a Generalist is never a bad thing. Sure you're not as good as a person that's dedicated a lot of time and effort into training just ONE thing, but you can do so much more.

If all you have are drivers and gunners, and the engine or transmission on the "Vehicle of Death" blows on you, you're screwed.

More importantly, in my mind at least, is that your character has an EXCELLENT backstory! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Sorry to disagree here, but being a generalist in Shadowrun is never a good idea.

Shadowrun has always been about teams of specialists, working together. People with special expertise form a team, each person handling a certain role. If you're a generalist, you really have nothing to offer to a team; for the same cut of the nuyen, they could get someone better than you for the role.

Having a generalized skill set never hurts; but unless you've got something to offer a team, you're not going to be useful. You have to have a focus. And whatever that focus is, it's got to have a dice pool big enough to back it up. If everyone else has a good variety of skills, they might be able to do everything almost as well as you can. Most generalist build I've seen only have a 1-2 dice pool advantage over a more specialized character, not enough to make a huge difference.

I do agree about the backstory, though. Kudos.

[Guru Nath Butter...]

Hi, GM for the game Zafira is created for (your basic Corporate Havens LA PITO story); I think she'll be great for it. I have the opposite experience you have with specialist groups--all the 12 dice purist groups I played with died, over and over, even with a great GM. Diversification, right off the bat, was what moved the groups that worked. When the Rigger got blasted, who could pick up the vehicle and throw chaff and get us the hell out of dodge? Who was holding those backup skillwires? What other character beside the Sam had the high rated comlink or sniping skills?

Being a dumpshocker and a fellow 1st Eder, I assume you base your view on horrible fates met out to the example chars you've seen. So I do hear you. But Zafira will do fine. The rest of her group consist of a Shapechanging Gunner, a Jedi wannabe Adept, a stock Eco Shaman and a homeless Mage. There are holes here you can drive a bus through, but the generalist isn't one of them.

[BishopMcQ]

Generalists can and do survive. Period.

Yes, they have to think. Yes, occasionally they talk instead of fighting, run instead of dealing. There's nothing wrong with that. Each of us has our personal bias on how we would change the character, but honestly I'd say to let it play. Most of the changes that any of us DS'ers would recommend could be accomplished after the first few runs.

JonathanC--Play it smart and you'll make it through. The build you have is similar to one that I have been playing for awhile. You'll always be stronger with a team, but able to survive on your own. Remember to always have a back-up plan and when it matters, throw Edge. Best of luck!

[sunnyside]

On the social skills. While others may have higher skills, likely the GM has been letting them skate instead of turning the screws. But if not, or if players just avoid that sort of thing, than her and her dice pool will go over well.

As for the generalist I think most every character on a team should be somewhat generalist it's just a matter of how much. Everybody should be passable in combat and I strongly strongly suggest all my players have decent infiltration skills in case the team needs to move out stealthily as a group.

Once play starts if she can get some rating 4 agility boosters that'll put her pools for shooting and infiltration up to a solid level.

Though if I would boost something "out of the box" other than edge I'd suggest social skills.

Though as I said before using some negative qualities to buy edge up to 5 would give you a couple extra edge boosted rolls. For example with the Johnson.

Since the GMs in the thread, go on, think of some fun negative qualities. It'll be fun, and her char isn't going to be broken with a little boost. Plus it isn't like she couldn't be allergic to camel hair or some other cheesy stuff to get the points.

[JonathanC]

Well, I ran the math again to make sure everything added up. It turns out I kinda shorted myself, since I had Pilot Ground Craft (Wheeled) and Electronic Warfare costing 14 points each, instead of 10 and 12 points, respectively. My total adds up to 381 points...unless I'm missing something...

[Cain]

Generalists can and do survive. Period.

Yes, they have to think. Yes, occasionally they talk instead of fighting, run instead of dealing. There's nothing wrong with that. Each of us has our personal bias on how we would change the character, but honestly I'd say to let it play. Most of the changes that any of us DS'ers would recommend could be accomplished after the first few runs.

They can survive; but survival is often up to the GM. We've all heard the stories of "killer GM's", who delight in throwing disgustingly overpowered opposition at a party. In that environment, min/maxing is a survival trait.

At any event, even if the character survives, her ability to thrive is a different matter. She doesn't have any standout abilities, so if she ever has to go up against a specialist, she will be hard-pressed. This includes social situations as well as combat. For example, if she ever has to negotiate against a talented Johnson, her dice pool of 9 isn't going to be enough to reliably get extra information or money out of him. In fact, a maxed-out Johnson might even cause the team to lose money, as he reduces his offer.

Right now, she's not going to be an effective Face. She needs a higher social dice pool for that. And she may be decent as an infiltrator, but she's not going to have much margin for error.

[JonathanC]

I pushed some points around, mostly making use of the ones I'd apparently cheated myself out of:

Zafira 400 points

Body 3
Agility 5
Reaction 3
Strength 3
Charisma 5
Logic 3
Intuition 3
Willpower 3
200
Essence 3.10
Edge 3

Negative Qualities
Enemy (connection 3/incidence 2) Ali Ben Saiyyid 5 points
Wanted 10 points

Contacts 10 points
Jorge Santiago, Dock foreman Connection 2 Loyalty 2
Jamal Tamir (Talent Agent) Connection 4 Loyalty 2


SKILLS
Stealth SKill Group 4 (40)
Disguise
Infiltration
Palming
Shadowing
Athletics SKill Group 1 (10)
Climbing
Gymnastics
Running
Swimming
Influence Skill Group 4 (40)
Con
Etiquette
Leadership
Negotiation
Pistols (semi-automatics) 4/6 (18 points)
Exotic Melee Weapon - Monofilament Whip 4 (16 points)
Pilot Ground Craft (wheeled) 2 (4) [10]
Hardware (Maglocks) 5/7 [22]
Locksmith 4 [16]
Perception (hearing) 2/4 (10 points)
Electronic Warfare 3 [12 points]

Obvious Cyberhand (agility 5) 14250 total
Hermes Ikon Commlink implanted
Datajack
Fingertip Compartment

Obvious Cyberhand 5000 nuyen capacity 4
(customized agility 5 +3000 nuyen, modular cyberlimb [multiply by 1.1 for final cost]) Final cost 8,800 nuyen
Scanner System Rating 4 2000 nuyen, Holdout Pistol 800 nuyen
Plugins:
Welding Laser 3000 nuyen
Drone Hand 3500 nuyen

Wired Reflexes 2

Varshon Island Steampunk Line 2000 nuyen total
Overcoat 3/3 1000 nuyen
Corset 2/2 600 nuyen
Slacks 1/1 400 nuyen

Contact Lenses 375n
Vision Enhancement 3
Image Link

Goggles 1550n
Smartlink
Ultrasound

Lockpick Set 300

Grapple Gun 500

Microwire (100m) 50

Rappeling Gloves 70

Monofilament Whip 3000

Ares Predator 350
50 rounds of regular ammo 100
50 rounds of gel rounds 150
5 spare clips 25
Quick-Draw Holster 100

Actioneer Business Clothes 1,500

Novatech Navi OS 1500
Firewall 6 Upgrade 3000
Command 400
Scan 400
Encrypt 400
Sniffer 4 4000

Fake SIN Rating 4 4000
Fake SIN Rating 4 or Basic DocWagon Service 1 year
Fake Driver's License 400
Fake Gun License 400
Hardware Kit 500

Earbuds 10
Audio Enhancement 3 300
Spatial Recognizer 100

170 nuyen worth of illicit drugs (she frequently supplies Jamal's clients)
(19 points = 95,000) 95,000


Middle Lifestyle 5k 1BP

[sunnyside]

Actually something else that's relevant.

Well, I'm not sure how to ask this. Probably no good way if your fellow players read the board. But are you smarter, more charismatic, or a better leader than the rest of the crew? Uh, maybe don't answer that, just think about it.

The reason being that a character that isn't min maxed or a specialist isn't for a wallflower.


But it can work great for a leader. This is because you can have a solid contribution at each stage of a run. Footwork, infiltrating for the actual job, and combat when it comes to it. However not having specialties ensures the others will get their chance to shine, and won't resent you.

[Ryu]

Some quick points:
- You need a Stealth Program, or hidden mode isn´t
- I´d take the Electronics group instead of Hardware, and buy Edit and Browse, too.

[BishopMcQ]

They can survive; but survival is often up to the GM. We've all heard the stories of "killer GM's", who delight in throwing disgustingly overpowered opposition at a party. In that environment, min/maxing is a survival trait.

Without derailing the thread too much, I think this line sums up your largest problem with SR4. Here and in the compromise thread, you have recently commented on how one character could never survive or another will take all the fun out of the game. I really think the problem is the GM style you are used to playing with. Yes there are "killer GMs" but most aren't out to kill characters. Some of them create difficult situations, and even I am known to occasionally create a situation where the characters cannot win in a straight fight. The trick is to recognize when fighting is not an option. (If the GM mentions heavy weapons and security armor, you may want to find a plan that doesn't involve shooting.)

Either way, the "survival trait" has clouded your perceptions of how everyone else plays the game. Take a look at half the threads in the Welcome to the Shadows section, or read through the Missions. (Don't play them, READ them.) You will see that the threats are commensurate to normal characters with dice pools in the 7-12 range. That means that a character who rolls in with 18 dice will win almost every time, but there are situations where winning isn't the answer. If you've never been in one of those situations in a game, I feel pity for you.

At any event, even if the character survives, her ability to thrive is a different matter. She doesn't have any standout abilities, so if she ever has to go up against a specialist, she will be hard-pressed. This includes social situations as well as combat. For example, if she ever has to negotiate against a talented Johnson, her dice pool of 9 isn't going to be enough to reliably get extra information or money out of him. In fact, a maxed-out Johnson might even cause the team to lose money, as he reduces his offer.

Here you are letting that preconceived notion cloud your thinking. By playing the generalist well, and using the strengths of the entire team, you never show up with just Skill+Attrib. There are always modifiers to the test. The Face can coordinate with the hacker to get some information, have the Sam posture enough to show that they mean business without brooking violence. If the mage has it, how about some Increase Charisma? The point behind the generalist is synergy--their combined strength is greater than the sum of the parts.

Right now, she's not going to be an effective Face. She needs a higher social dice pool for that. And she may be decent as an infiltrator, but she's not going to have much margin for error.

Perhaps not effective against mega-corporate negotiators whom she hasn't prepped for, but as a starting runner she doesn't have to be. She can go through the first few jobs, earning the money and building rapport. The opportunity cost of not squeezing the Johnson for everything he's worth on the first few jobs can pay off in aces when the face earns him as a contact and her street rep goes up as a fair and honest runner.

[Cain]

Without derailing the thread too much, I think this line sums up your largest problem with SR4. Here and in the compromise thread, you have recently commented on how one character could never survive or another will take all the fun out of the game. I really think the problem is the GM style you are used to playing with. Yes there are "killer GMs" but most aren't out to kill characters. Some of them create difficult situations, and even I am known to occasionally create a situation where the characters cannot win in a straight fight. The trick is to recognize when fighting is not an option. (If the GM mentions heavy weapons and security armor, you may want to find a plan that doesn't involve shooting.)

Either way, the "survival trait" has clouded your perceptions of how everyone else plays the game. Take a look at half the threads in the Welcome to the Shadows section, or read through the Missions. (Don't play them, READ them.) You will see that the threats are commensurate to normal characters with dice pools in the 7-12 range. That means that a character who rolls in with 18 dice will win almost every time, but there are situations where winning isn't the answer. If you've never been in one of those situations in a game, I feel pity for you.

Character imbalance is a real issue. When you have two characters occupying the same niche, it's very hard to ensure quality spotlight time for both of them; adding in a mathematical imbalance makes things even worse.

However, I have played, read, and ran a number of Missions games. I've also played under a number of different GMs. You do need a minimum dice pool in a given area before you can be considered "good" at it. If you expect to compete with the NPC's, you need a dice pool to match what they have; and if it's your specialty, you should exceed that. Now, you might think the range should be 7-10, and i think it should be 12+. That *is* a matter to be decided on in individual games. However, assuming that JonC is playing a by-the-book game, his dice pools should be at least a match for the examples in the book.

This is really an issue for the GM mantra thread, where I've already gone over some of these topics in detail. I'll refer you there for further discussion. But for now, let's just say that the larger your dice pool is, the more effective you will be. I will also say that in every single game I've ever played in, having a character with no central focus was no fun. Being mediocre in a lot of areas means not only do you never get to show off your strengths, you can't roleplay out your weaknesses as well. Good characters will have high and low points, which add dimension to the character.

Here you are letting that preconceived notion cloud your thinking. By playing the generalist well, and using the strengths of the entire team, you never show up with just Skill+Attrib. There are always modifiers to the test. The Face can coordinate with the hacker to get some information, have the Sam posture enough to show that they mean business without brooking violence. If the mage has it, how about some Increase Charisma? The point behind the generalist is synergy--their combined strength is greater than the sum of the parts.

Perhaps not effective against mega-corporate negotiators whom she hasn't prepped for, but as a starting runner she doesn't have to be. She can go through the first few jobs, earning the money and building rapport. The opportunity cost of not squeezing the Johnson for everything he's worth on the first few jobs can pay off in aces when the face earns him as a contact and her street rep goes up as a fair and honest runner.

Modifiers can work both ways. Using just the Johnson in the BBB, and adding no modifiers whatsoever, she still comes up short in the dice pool comparison. And that's in her high strength, of Bargaining. If she's negotiating for anything else, her dice pool is going to be even smaller.

My last character had a social pool of 6 for most situations. That was enough to occasionally talk her way out of a corner, but not enough to really accomplish much else, like bargaining down the price on a new piece of gear. This character has a normal social dice pool of 7. That's simply not enough to pull off a lot of the Face's roles. Since my last character was a mage, why should she bother casting Increase Charisma on someone else? She could do it on herself, and do just as good.

What reason would a team have for this character? If they've got someone with an average social pool of 6, they're going to be doing almost as well as this character. If they also have a ninja-type with a better Infiltration dice pool, exactly what does she have to offer?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Given an average target (Intuition 3 and Perception 3, no other modifiers)

The normale CorpSec Grunt has no perception at all, though a LoneStar Grunt has Intuition 4 and Perception 2.

They can survive; but survival is often up to the GM. We've all heard the stories of "killer GM's", who delight in throwing disgustingly overpowered opposition at a party. In that environment, min/maxing is a survival trait.

Then don't play with "killer GM's".

For example, if she ever has to negotiate against a talented Johnson, her dice pool of 9 isn't going to be enough to reliably get extra information or money out of him.

Given the Social Skill Modifiers (which drastically reduce the 'attackers' dice pool, but not the 'defenders'), no dice pool short of a Pornomancer is.
The important thing is Availability and Negotiation/Con Resistance, which 9 dice do quite well.

So while she won't be able to get much more out of a J than offered, he won't talk her into doing the job for less, either.

[masterofm]

Donde esta intimidation? Might want to get intimidation if you are going to be the face.

[JonathanC]

Some quick points:
- You need a Stealth Program, or hidden mode isn´t
- I´d take the Electronics group instead of Hardware, and buy Edit and Browse, too.

I've no intent of doing any hacking. I actually think that the Electronic Warfare might be a bit of a waste...I really only bought those things for use with the drone hand. I'm not going to get an effective rigger/shooter/face on 400BP.

Regarding the questions about Mr. Johnson negotiations...I don't know about your games, but I think of Johnson negotiation as being a rather small part of what a Face really does. I figure most social encounters with someone who has a larger dice pool will be occasions for using an Edge point.

To answer the question about the other players...I'm the most experienced with Shadowrun, so I suppose it'll be useful if I'm active. I usually tend to play investigator types in games, so this will be interesting as I'm trying something different.

As for intimidation...I might have picked a little up if I had the extra points, but I don't see it fitting the background. I also usually figure on giving that to gunbunnies and street sams.

I think Sam/Face is much easier to do than Infiltrator/Face, since there are so many more skills required for Infiltrators. Were I going for a more min/maxed approach, I probably would have coughed up 30BP for an elf, and bought a Sequencer and a card copier instead of bothering with the Hardware skill.

What I like about this build is that most of what she has is built into her. MAD detectors aside, she can walk into most places "unarmed" and still feel about as safe as she would anywhere, which is what I expect from a socially-adept former burglar.

[Cain]

Given the Social Skill Modifiers (which drastically reduce the 'attackers' dice pool, but not the 'defenders'), no dice pool short of a Pornomancer is.
The important thing is Availability and Negotiation/Con Resistance, which 9 dice do quite well.

So while she won't be able to get much more out of a J than offered, he won't talk her into doing the job for less, either.

9 dice is enough for a non-face character; you can get by with that.

But if you're really going to be using those social skills, 9 dice isn't enough to accomplish much. It's slightly less than an average Johnson, so you're going to almost be a match; but against higher-powered negotiators, it's just not enough. And this assumes that the Johnson doesn't have any gear that increases his dice pool.

Remember, that 9 dice is for bargaining only. To resist a Con, she has two less dice. We're talking 7 dice for most social tests, which averages out to 2.33 successes. That's really not much at all.

I've no intent of doing any hacking. I actually think that the Electronic Warfare might be a bit of a waste...I really only bought those things for use with the drone hand. I'm not going to get an effective rigger/shooter/face on 400BP.

Even so, if you want your commlink to remain in hidden mode, apparently the Stealth program helps. Even as a non-decker, certain programs are going to be very useful to you. Electronic Warfare might be a bit of a waste, though.

Regarding the questions about Mr. Johnson negotiations...I don't know about your games, but I think of Johnson negotiation as being a rather small part of what a Face really does. I figure most social encounters with someone who has a larger dice pool will be occasions for using an Edge point.

If that's the case, you really should put your specialization somewhere other than Bargaining. I'd also consider a Fast Talk specialization in Con, and boost your dice pool with Tailored Pheromones, emotoys, and things like that.

If you're going to be relying on Edge to boost your dice pool, you may want to consider raising that as well. Right now, you can only use it 3 times per game. Considering how often a social test against a dice pool higher than 7 is likely to come up, you might end up running yourself out of Edge very quickly. Besides which, it's generally a bad idea to rely on Edge for regular dice rolls; it should be saved for more extreme situations.

What I like about this build is that most of what she has is built into her. MAD detectors aside, she can walk into most places "unarmed" and still feel about as safe as she would anywhere, which is what I expect from a socially-adept former burglar.

You're character's already set up for this trick, so I don't know if you've planned it out or not-- but have you considered hiding your monowhip in your fingertip compartment? You can get past chemsniffers and MAD detectors that way.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

But if you're really going to be using those social skills, 9 dice isn't enough to accomplish much. It's slightly less than an average Johnson, so you're going to almost be a match; but against higher-powered negotiators, it's just not enough. And this assumes that the Johnson doesn't have any gear that increases his dice pool.

Actually, an Average Johnson has a Negotiation Skill of 3 per Skill Rating table. The Johnson Contact already is 'higher-powered'.

[JonathanC]

9 dice is enough for a non-face character; you can get by with that.

But if you're really going to be using those social skills, 9 dice isn't enough to accomplish much. It's slightly less than an average Johnson, so you're going to almost be a match; but against higher-powered negotiators, it's just not enough. And this assumes that the Johnson doesn't have any gear that increases his dice pool.

Remember, that 9 dice is for bargaining only. To resist a Con, she has two less dice. We're talking 7 dice for most social tests, which averages out to 2.33 successes. That's really not much at all.


Even so, if you want your commlink to remain in hidden mode, apparently the Stealth program helps. Even as a non-decker, certain programs are going to be very useful to you. Electronic Warfare might be a bit of a waste, though.

If that's the case, you really should put your specialization somewhere other than Bargaining. I'd also consider a Fast Talk specialization in Con, and boost your dice pool with Tailored Pheromones, emotoys, and things like that.

If you're going to be relying on Edge to boost your dice pool, you may want to consider raising that as well. Right now, you can only use it 3 times per game. Considering how often a social test against a dice pool higher than 7 is likely to come up, you might end up running yourself out of Edge very quickly. Besides which, it's generally a bad idea to rely on Edge for regular dice rolls; it should be saved for more extreme situations.


You're character's already set up for this trick, so I don't know if you've planned it out or not-- but have you considered hiding your monowhip in your fingertip compartment? You can get past chemsniffers and MAD detectors that way.

Yes, I had planned for the monowhip finger thing...it's the only reason I got a fingertip compartment. The idea is that she can walk into nightclubs, nice restaurants, etc and still be somewhat prepared if things go south.

Also, if you look at the revised sheet, I removed the specialization...there's an overall improvement of the social dice. I suppose I could go for a stealth program instead of the extra SIN, but that seems like a lot of cash to basically just avoid spam ads, or the vague possibility of someone trying to hack my drone crawler hand. It's not like that's the hand I'll usually be wearing.