800 Point Characters...want to make one?, Pregens for a potential submission... Options

[Coldhand Jake]

Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, I have to read on the Echoes and Resonance Trodes a bit. Wait a minute...by the sound of that the blasted Complex Form itself has the ability of Critical Strike and Killing Hands, or else I can't figure out how you smack someone upside the head with Resonance Trodes and inject an IC into their brain. I need to dig into Unwired more.

Heh, posted just as I edited my dood. I think he's more prime now.

She does a nice blade-hand strike, doing as much damage as a Panther Cannon to your body, then, as the contact is made, she instantly assaults your mind with the complex form as well. She does this by running Black Hammer as a complex form, her own meatware as a commlink with hot sim, and her contact with your body as a set of trodes. Swat, splat, thank you twat. She's "The One". The Bitchy One.

[ElFenrir]

That could be nasty vs. a plain old hacker who might not be as well armored. But Hackers, then again, have the mind stuff to protect. It's sort of a double-edged sword; hackers might lack the damage resilience and combat skills vs. the regular attack, but their minds are much better to take the other. Our combat monkies have enough dodge, armor, and soak dice to eat an attack from an old SR3 Panther Cannon(If not reverse it...sheesh, Basher's running 40 dice on melee turnaround!) but the mind-thing is the weakness to them; even if converting it to stun if not outright soaking it isn't that hard, I have a feeling even a little contact causes black IC damage.

Solution: Assault with magic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Or just all three at once.

As for the toxic shaman and the mage...yeah, I'm glad we have a couple good mages on our team. Again, I can't shake it that those are the scariest somehow.

[Which makes me think about just how powered SR4 people can get. I mean, nowadays when I hear ''damage of a panther cannon unarmed'', I just think ''Ah, I made a little old Strength 2 man who was an adept with that and 400 BP under standard rules.'' Which...scares me how easy it is to get these days. It's almost like if you AREN'T doing Panther Cannon damage minimum unarmed, it's like ''Get with the times, man! Shotgun Unarmed damage is so last year! We got guys hitting for Thor Shots these days! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ]

[Coldhand Jake]

I'll tell you how it went the first time.

Yokozuna, the troll cybertank, rode out to investigate some defaced gang tags...and got plugged by the team sniper and the techno, putting machine sprites into the guidance systems of mini-missiles, and siccing them on him. This, of course, alerted Judas to the troll's death, and he issued a threat through Denver's dataweb...

Once he was riled, basically, the whole team sat around in a Hardee's, and the vouduni astral projected, leading an army of bound spirits against the outer defenses. Taking out the outer gun emplacements of this hardened compound, and bashing against the Olympian-aspected background count.

Then Mob Mind began being abused. Guardian spirits (Charon) and bound fire spirits (Greater Cyclops) were turned against Hekate, the greek neopagan, being retasked and sent in to attack her. This was done repeatedly until she dismissed her spirits to get them off the battlefield, and projected out to deal with the assault...and he Mob Minded her to return to her body, and murder Snowman in his plugseat. She failed the Willpower, not surprisingly, and Death Touched the guy at maximum force, then opened herself to the Drain, dying with him.

At the same time, the techno (Wasabi) went full VR, and rode a Kanmushi drone into the base's Signal overlap, and was assaulted by Belladonna, and he wasted her. Belladonna eventually reformed, and Jenna and Mange escaped...but Snowman was the target, so a 50% killrate with no PC losses was not bad.

[ElFenrir]

Oh, wow. So even though these guys are like, super; some really good ''super'' runners themselves can plan good stuff. That was a clever way of taking out the troll.

Death Palm=Death Touch Spell, I'm guessing? Overcast at an insane Force with insta-death drain if failed, it also looked like.

I wonder once our team is ''assembled'', what kind of tactics they would have? We do seem to have a team of well-rounded specialists so far.

[pbangarth]

Since the PCs have been around a long time, and successful, we would have to play them as cooperative, creative, implacable and ultra-cool.

Meaning we would have to step up our game a notch or two! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Peter

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, once everyone's got their characters together, we can think of how this team got together, just for some flavor or whatnot. If this thing is getting used for a story/con thing of sorts, it might be cool to find out how an orc tough thrash-metal listening dood with pistols, machineguns and a super-duper mean right hook, a New Orleans elf voodoo Cuban cigar smoking man who can by the look of things do very nasty things with magic, a Pimpass gunbunny with a Super Pimp ride, a manga-demon giant elf who can kick holes in skulls, tanks, or sneak around while kicking said holes, a Hawaiian Dwarf Eastern Dragon Drake Mage who seems to be very rich, a relatively normal at first glance Technomancer in this whole menagerie, and soon to be a Face, Rigger, and an ''Implacable Invincible Man-Tank'' actually DID get together.

Well, can't say we aren't balanced. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pbangarth]

... it might be cool to find out how ... actually DID get together.

Well, can't say we aren't balanced. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Kick-hoop, twisted-sense-of-humour fixers.

Peter

[Bobson]

Magic: 6
...
Adept Powers(8 Power Points-6 from magic and 2 from initation)

How do you get 8 power points, with a magic rating of 6? I don't think initiation gives any PP directly... if it does, I'm going to have to go spend more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Bobson]

She does a nice blade-hand strike, doing as much damage as a Panther Cannon to your body, then, as the contact is made, she instantly assaults your mind with the complex form as well. She does this by running Black Hammer as a complex form, her own meatware as a commlink with hot sim, and her contact with your body as a set of trodes. Swat, splat, thank you twat. She's "The One". The Bitchy One.

I think that's a call for me to post the troll tank. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Panther cannons tickle.

I will note that flavor is not my strong suit. I love crunching, but I'm not great at backstory. So my characters tend to be more of "this is what he is now" instead of "this is how he got there", and also kindof light on contacts and/or knowledge skills. Since I want to move on to the rigger already, this one's light on all three. Anyone else is free to make suggestions for breathing life into the statistics, or they could be left available as a "Customize the character's interests" bit in the final adventure. I'm also not quite happy with his name, but that's what popped into my head, after his theme did so.

Some notes:

• He needs one more minor negative quality, or some economy somewhere else, to have enough BP left over to actually be able to buy contacts. (I'm actually 7 BP in the red right now)
• I assumed that essence loss acted as a negative modifer to Magic, rather than an actual reduction, since that's what the spreadsheet does. If standard assumption is that it reduces then the cost to improve is calculated, let me know and I'll go spend those extra karma points
• I'm not entirely sure "Shields" is a valid category for Adept's Item Attunement, and I haven't yet spent the Karma to bind the shield. But if it works the way I'd assume it does, that'd be an extra 2 armor dice (not armor rating) that is not included anywhere below
• I didn't buy a lifestyle or any misc gear, but I did dedicate 12,550 nuyen towards all that. Probably not enough to secure a decent lifestyle along with everything else, but not bad.

The basics:

[ Spoiler ]

Name: Tom Alberts
Alias: Sir Thomas
Race: Troll(Changeling)
Sex: Male
Eyes: Entirely the same color as his skin.


Race: 40

+ Qualities: 70

Class I Surge (5)
Mentor Spirit (Bear) (5)
Mystic Adept (10)
Tough As Nails (10)
Toughness (10)
Type O System (30)

- Qualities: 50

Sensitive System (15)
Aspected Magical (Spell Category: Health) (10)
Distinctive Style (5): Speaks English with Elizabethan grammer (or what passes for it).
Oblivious (5)
Thrill Seeker (5)
Signature (10): Leaves books (actual paper books) of classic literature behind, preferably open to some passage relevant to the activity.

Surge Qualities:

+: Dermal Deposits (10)
-: Extravagant Eyes (5)

The Numbers:

[ Spoiler ]

Attributes:
(All numbers are as BP unless marked with a kr or otherwise denoted as karma)

Core: 245
Magic: 70 + 50kr (Magic bought to 6 at start, lost 1 points due to bio, then bought another 4 with karma. Note that I'm assuming that all magic was bought, then the bioware was added. )
Edge: 30
Initiate 4 times: 58 karma

Body: 10 (+5 for dmg)
Agility: 4
Reaction: 6
Strength: 9 (12 with armor)
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 2
Logic: 2
Willpower: 5
Edge: 4
Magic: 10
Initative: 8/3
Essence: 5.13

Active Skills: 134

Athletics Group 4
Dodge 4 (Ranged Dodge +2)
Intimidation 4
Counterspelling 6 (+2 from focus for combat or illusion, +4 from shielding when resisting spells)
Spellcasting 4 (Health spells +4 (inc. Mentor spirit))
Blades 4 (Monofiliment Blade +2)
Unarmed Combat 1


Knowledge/Language Skills: (12 Free)

(Not entirely sure, but should involve literature)

English: N
Latin: 3



Contacts():

None specified yet

The Magic:

[ Spoiler ]

9 Magic rating

Adept Powers(8 Power Points):

Mystic Armor Lv. 9 (4.5) (+9 armor)
Improved Reflexes II (3) (+2 Reaction/+2 IP)
Spell Resistance 1 (.5)


Spellcasting Tradition: Christian Theurgy
Drain: Will + Charisma (10 dice + 4 when centering)

Spells (1 Magic rating):
Heal
Detox
Cure Disease
Antidote

Foci (all bound via BP, 8BP total):
Counterspelling 2 (Combat) (10,000)
Counterspelling 2 (Illusion) (10,000)
Sustaining 2 (Health) (20,000)
Weapon 2 (20,000)

Initiation (4 levels)
Meditation -> Adept Centering (Chanting in Latin) (reduce penalties by 4)
Deed -> Centering (Chanting in Latin) (4 dice to drain tests)
Asceticism -> Shielding (4 dice to counterspell to resist spells)
Meditation -> Attunement (Item) (Shields) (+2 dice to shields?)

The Gear:

[ Spoiler ]

Resources: 500,000

Implants:

Orthoskin 3 (90,000) (+3 armor)
Bone Desnity Augmentation 4 (80,000) (+4 Damage Resistance,

STR/2+3P unarmed)
Platelet Factories (25,000) (-1 damage taken, min 1)
Damage Compensators 12 (180,000) (Ignore 12 boxes of damage before

calculating modifiers)

Gear:

Monofilament Sword (750)

(More to come)


Armor:

Heavy Military-Grade Armor (16/14) (20,000 + 11,700), customized to look like a suit of platemail
--- Strength Upgrade III (4,500)
--- Foot Anchor (3,000)
--- Nonconductivity 6 (1,200)
--- Fire Resistant 6 (600)
--- Chemical Protection 6 (900)
--- Gel Packs (1,500)

Military Helmet (Ratings 6) (+2/+2) (18,500)
Ballistic Shield (+6/+4) (1,500)

Damage:

Unarmed: 7P (9P in armor), 1 reach (5 dice)
Monofilament Sword (foci): 7P (9P in armor), 2 reach (12 dice)


Naked Armor (Orthoskin, enhanced dermal plating, mystic armor): 14/14

Armor when suited up (above + armor, helmet, and shield): 39/35 (-1 for knockdown tests)

Dice to resist damage: 17 + Armor, ignore one point of damage

Dice to resist spells: (11 or 13) + resistance stat.



So, really tough. A 10P/-5AP weapon doesn't really phase him (52 dice to resist 10+hits damage, on average it'll take 3 net hits to even scratch him). When he spends a point of Edge to reroll all failed damage resistance dice, he practically gurantees that he won't get hurt. I could have made him tougher (SWAT gear + full PPP + full body armor has more armor ratings), but this is what fit the concept.

As far as style goes, he imagines himself to be a knight in the tradition of medieval England (at least, as popularly conceptualized). Hence the sword and shield, "plate" armor, latin chanting, etc. Bear's Berserk disadvantage serves as somewhat equivalent to a code of chivalry (at least as far as battle is concerned). He leaves the literature behind in an attempt to educate others (by preference Mallory, but anything up to and including Shakespeare qualifies). Feel free to rewrite any of this last paragraph (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[pbangarth]

How do you get 8 power points, with a magic rating of 6? I don't think initiation gives any PP directly... if it does, I'm going to have to go spend more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

There is an optional rule somewhere, though I can't find it at the moment, that allows adepts to acquire a PP instead of a Metamagic Technique at Initiation.

There is also an optional rule that allows the purchase of Metamagic Techniques without Initiation.

Speaking of optional rules, I avoided them, indoctrinated as I am by the stricture against them in SRM. Are optional rules available here? Not that I am going to bother changing anything, but just to know.

Peter

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, wasn't it in...Street Magic? I have to look again. I simply used it because I noticed Glyph used it without a problem, and figured it was an OK. But I have a feeling it's there since Adepts don't have a hell of a lot of metamagics they can aquire and actually do something with.

But nice tank. Not overly offensive(though with his sword he does very well...actually, his unarmed damage would be 8P, since you round up for that-his sword would grant him an extra reach and AP which is nice, however), but enough that he can lay down some punishment if necessary; making him enough of a threat that they just don't want to ''leave him alone, he can't hurt us.'' But moreso, TAKE the punishment. Wow, that's a lot of resistance dice. I mean, you'd need one of those missiles from Arsenal to even have a chance of scratching him physically; one edge point spend for rerolls can almost assure him just not even taking stun(and remember a weapon has to do OVER the armor to do more than stun; an Ares Predator vs. and Armor Jacket needs to have at least 3 net hits to do physical, for example...so for a panther cannon to actually do more than stun to him...it needs to have it's damage boosted to over his armor. Stun can take you out of a fight just as well, but of course, at least you have a shot of getting back from that.


And a nice touch with the Signature literature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Glyph]

One of the optional rules added to Street Magic in the errata (so it won't be in most people's books yet) gives adepts the option to get a Power Point instead of a metamagical technique when they initiate. I asked about it in my first post, on page one, and used it after it got greenlighted.

@Bobson: Your character has shielding - giving him a shielding focus would be a much better bargain for him, because it adds its dice to all counterspelling. For the cost of the two Force: 2 counterspelling foci, you could get a Force: 4 shielding focus, or get a Force: 2 shielding focus to get the same +2 to counterspelling but save 4 Build Points.

[Bobson]

But nice tank. Not overly offensive(though with his sword he does very well...actually, his unarmed damage would be 8P, since you round up for that-his sword would grant him an extra reach and AP which is nice, however), but enough that he can lay down some punishment if necessary; making him enough of a threat that they just don't want to ''leave him alone, he can't hurt us.''

Indeed. He certainly doesn't even compare to a 400bp physad I built for a one-shot that had something like 16 or 18 unarmed DV, but he's good enough to keep anyone who isn't him busy... and since the sword's also a weapon focus, he can whack on spirits and such too. Maybe I should give him astral perception so he can beat on things on the astral plane as well...

But moreso, TAKE the punishment. Wow, that's a lot of resistance dice. I mean, you'd need one of those missiles from Arsenal to even have a chance of scratching him physically; one edge point spend for rerolls can almost assure him just not even taking stun(and remember a weapon has to do OVER the armor to do more than stun; an Ares Predator vs. and Armor Jacket needs to have at least 3 net hits to do physical, for example...so for a panther cannon to actually do more than stun to him...it needs to have it's damage boosted to over his armor. Stun can take you out of a fight just as well, but of course, at least you have a shot of getting back from that.

True, it can, and he certainly can take less stun damage than physical damage. But a pain editor will take care of that. (I just managed to find that again. I remembered it, but I was thinking it was a drug, not more bioware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif) )

And a nice touch with the Signature literature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I admit that that wasn't my idea, but when it was suggested to me, I went "That's perfect". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

One of the optional rules added to Street Magic in the errata (so it won't be in most people's books yet) gives adepts the option to get a Power Point instead of a metamagical technique when they initiate. I asked about it in my first post, on page one, and used it after it got greenlighted.

Good idea. That might be a better idea than Attunement (Item)... After all, I didn't include the karma cost or the skills to bind to the shield... And an extra PP would be two more spell resistance dice... Thanks for finding it.

@Bobson: Your character has shielding - giving him a shielding focus would be a much better bargain for him, because it adds its dice to all counterspelling. For the cost of the two Force: 2 counterspelling foci, you could get a Force: 4 shielding focus, or get a Force: 2 shielding focus to get the same +2 to counterspelling but save 4 Build Points.

Ooh. I'd entirely missed advanced foci. I'd love an anchoring focus, but that's not really feasible, but I'll certainly swap in a shielding focus. Thanks!

[Bobson]

Ok, here's the new version. Stuff I removed is struck through, new stuff is bolded. He currently has 12,550 nuyen and 9 karma/bp left over for misc. gear, lifestyle, and contacts.

The basics:

[ Spoiler ]

Name: Tom Alberts
Alias: Sir Thomas
Race: Troll(Changeling)
Sex: Male
Eyes: Entirely the same color as his skin.


Race: 40

+ Qualities: 70

Biocompatability (Bioware) (10)
Class I Surge (5)
Mentor Spirit (Bear) (5)
Mystic Adept (10)
Tough As Nails (10)
Toughness (10)
Type O System (30)

- Qualities: 50 70

Aspected Magical (Spell Category: Health) (10)
Combat Monster (10)
Distinctive Style (5): Speaks English with Elizabethan grammer (or what passes for it).
Low Pain Tolerance (10)
Oblivious (5)
Thrill Seeker (5)
Sensitive System (15)
Signature (10): Leaves books (actual paper books) of classic literature behind, preferably open to some passage relevant to the activity.

Surge Qualities:

+: Dermal Deposits (10)
-: Extravagant Eyes (5)

The Numbers:

[ Spoiler ]

Attributes:
(All numbers are as BP unless marked with a kr or otherwise denoted as karma)

Core: 245
Magic: 70 + 50kr (Magic bought to 6 at start, lost 1 points due to bio, then bought another 4 with karma. Note that I'm assuming that all magic was bought, then the bioware was added. )
Edge: 30
Initiate 4 times: 58 karma

Body: 10 (+5 for dmg)
Agility: 4
Reaction: 6
Strength: 9 (12 with armor)
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 2 (1 when pain editing)
Logic: 2
Willpower: 5 (6 when pain editing)
Edge: 4
Magic: 10
Initative: 8/3
Essence: 5.13 5.08

Active Skills: 134 128 (Forgot to include the unarmed cost before)

Athletics Group 4 3
Dodge 4 (Ranged Dodge +2)
Intimidation 4
Counterspelling 6 (+2 from focus for combat or illusion, +4 from shielding when resisting spells) (+6 from shielding w/focus , can reflect spells, +3 spell resistance)
Spellcasting 4 (Health spells +4 (inc. Mentor spirit))
Blades 4 (Monofiliment Blade +2)
Unarmed Combat 1


Knowledge/Language Skills: (12 Free)

(Not entirely sure, but should involve literature)

English: N
Latin: 3



Contacts():

None specified yet

The Magic:

[ Spoiler ]

9 Magic rating

Adept Powers(8 9 Power Points):

Mystic Armor Lv. 9 (4.5) (+9 armor)
Improved Reflexes II (3) (+2 Reaction/+2 IP)
Spell Resistance 1 (.5) 3 (1.5)


Spellcasting Tradition: Christian Theurgy
Drain: Will + Charisma (10 dice + 4 when centering +1 when pain editing)

Spells (1 Magic rating):
Heal
Detox
Cure Disease
Antidote

Foci (all bound via BP, 8BP total 12 karma for the shielding focus, 4 BP for the other two):
Counterspelling 2 (Combat) (10,000)
Counterspelling 2 (Illusion) (10,000)
Shielding 2 (10,000)
Sustaining 2 (Health) (20,000)
Weapon 2 (20,000)

Initiation (4 levels)
Meditation -> Adept Centering (Chanting in Latin) (reduce penalties by 4)
Asceticism -> Shielding (4 dice to counterspell to resist spells)
Deed -> Centering (Chanting in Latin) (4 dice to drain tests) Reflecting (counterspelled spells can be turned back on the caster)
Meditation -> Attunement (Item) (Shields) (+2 dice to shields?) Extra Power Point (as per Street Magic errata's optional rule)

The Gear:

[ Spoiler ]

Resources: 500,000 530,000

Implants:

Orthoskin 3 (90,000) (+3 armor)
Bone Desnity Augmentation 4 (80,000) (+4 Damage Resistance, STR/2+3P unarmed)
Platelet Factories (25,000) (-1 damage taken, min 1)
Damage Compensators 12 (180,000) (Ignore 12 boxes of damage before calculating modifiers)
Pain Editor (40,000) (When active: Ignore injury modifiers, don't pass out when stun track is filled, +1 willpower, -1 intuition)

Gear:

Monofilament Sword (750)

(More to come)


Damage:

Unarmed: 8P (9P in armor), 1 reach (5 dice)
Monofilament Sword (foci): 8P (9P in armor), 2 reach (12 dice)


Armor:

Heavy Military-Grade Armor (16/14) (20,000 + 11,700)
--- Strength Upgrade III (4,500)
--- Foot Anchor (3,000)
--- Nonconductivity 6 (1,200)
--- Fire Resistant 6 (600)
--- Chemical Protection 6 (900)
--- Gel Packs (1,500)

Military Helmet (Software Ratings 6) (+2/+2) (18,500)
Ballistic Shield (+6/+4) (1,500)

Naked Armor (Orthoskin, dual-layer dermal plating, mystic armor): 14/14

Armor when suited up (above + armor, helmet, and shield): 39/35

Dice to resist damage: 15 + Armor, ignore one point of damage

Dice to resist spells: (11 or 13) 15 + resistance stat, can reflect.



Major changes include:

• Added pain editor. No more being knocked out from minor points of stun damage in combat (biomonitor in his armor solves the "How damaged am I" question)
• Reflection Metamagic added, Centering removed (he's got enough dice to resist drain already)
• Added Biocompatability, Combat Monster (which stacks with the Bear Berserk, and synergizes with the Thrill Seeker), and Low Pain Tolerance (which he can ignore, because of his damage compensator. He takes penalties for every two boxes past 12 instead of every 3, but he only has 13 physical boxes). Removed Tough as nails.

[ElFenrir]

Whenever i see Combat Monster mixed with a tank, rather than seeing dishing out the attacks, I end up picturing them ''Hurt me! KEEP HURTING ME! Is that all you got?!?!'' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) But that's awesome defense; the magic defense will come in awesomely handy.

[pbangarth]

Of course, we could get REALLY twinky, and have Uncle Zola summon a Force 12 spirit (I limit the example to 12 'cause that is pretty safe for U.Z. to summon) to possess Sir Thomas (not that Sir Thomas would ever AGREE to this, but just for example), make it a Guardian Spirit with Skill in Sir Thomas' monofilament sword, and you would have a combined entity with :

BOD 22 ( 12 extra dice for damage resistance)
AGI 16
REA 18 ( 12 higher INIT)
STR 21 (+6 DV)

and a dice pool for the sword of Skill 12 and AGI 16 = 28 dice.

Peter

P.S. This is something to keep in mind when we come face to face with Sir Thomas' evil twin.

[ElFenrir]

Could one of those spirits possess any of us? For example, could Azael's 20P kick become...more?

*evil grin*

Hmm...so it's basically take the stats and add the Force on? So Azael, for example, would become:

Body: 18(6+12)
Agility: 22(10+12)
Reaction: 21(9+12)
Strength: 25(13+12) kicks are used as if 27 str

Wow. 22+1(reach)+11(unarmed + spec) dice to attack with(34 dice), with, in armor(+3 str), a damage code of...15 base, +2 martial arts, +3 bone lacing, and +6 Critical Strike for 26P. Well crap. Against barriers, it's a power of 52.

He wouldn't be as damage-soaky as Sir Thomas but the offensive capabilities of this is insane. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[pbangarth]

Could one of those spirits possess any of us? For example, could Azael's 20P kick become...more?

*evil grin*

Hmm...so it's basically take the stats and add the Force on? So Azael, for example, would become:

Body: 18(6+12)
Agility: 22(10+12)
Reaction: 21(9+12)
Strength: 25(13+12) kicks are used as if 27 str

Wow. 22+1(reach)+11(unarmed + spec) dice to attack with(34 dice), with, in armor(+3 str), a damage code of...15 base, +2 martial arts, +3 bone lacing, and +6 Critical Strike for 26P. Well crap. Against barriers, it's a power of 52.

He wouldn't be as damage-soaky as Sir Thomas but the offensive capabilities of this is insane. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Yes. The thing is, it wouldn't be Azael in charge (nor would Sir Thomas) -- the spirit would be in control, subject to the command of the magician who summoned it. Azael would be along for the ride, only. But yes, the stats would be improved as you indicated.

If a character would have the Channelling Metamagic Technique, then he would retain control of his body. Possession tradition magicians can have that Technique -- as does Uncle Zola, for example. So he can control his actions, or command the spirit to do something.

The hyper-powerful and armoured type of character would tend to be susceptible to forced possession, as the Opposed Test for possession pits the spirit's Force X 2 against the target's INT + WIL. In the case of Sir Thomas and the Force 12 spirit for example, this would pit the spirit with 24 dice against Sir Thomas with 7 dice. That's why Sir Thomas wants magicians with Counterspelling and/or Banishing on his side.

This discussion reminds me that I made a small oversight in Uncle Zola's creation. He does not have the Banishing skill, which is fine but I forgot to give him the Slay (Spirit) spell, so he could deal with possessed teammates without harming them. There is that old military truism, "Always have a way to defeat your own weapons." He can still deal with such a spirit, but the damage will affect the host, too. Well, I know where the next 5 Karma will go.

Peter

[EDIT] Hmmm... I don't think Counterspelling helps against possession attempts.

[ElFenrir]

So in Zola's case, when he commands a force 12 spirit to possess him and such, does the spirit get a ''Resistance Roll'' to try to do its own thing against Zola and get control over his body, or does Zola automatically ''win'' because of his Channeling metamagic? (we never did have anyone in SR4 every try any kind of possession or such thing, so I admit I'm funny on the rules there, too. So far our folks have been a bit more ''basic'' with the metamagic techniques.) Does a body possessed(without the Channeling metamagic) black out and possibly not remember anything that happened, or is it like they are watching, but can't control themselves?

And sheesh, Fx2 against Int and Will...anyone without the technique would want someone on their side(a normal human with no Exceptional Attributes would have a max of 12 dice to resist...a Dwarf could get up to 13..but vs. 24, the little guy would probably still get possessed anyway.)

[pbangarth]

So in Zola's case, when he commands a force 12 spirit to possess him and such, does the spirit get a ''Resistance Roll'' to try to do its own thing against Zola and get control over his body, or does Zola automatically ''win'' because of his Channeling metamagic? (we never did have anyone in SR4 every try any kind of possession or such thing, so I admit I'm funny on the rules there, too. So far our folks have been a bit more ''basic'' with the metamagic techniques.) Does a body possessed(without the Channeling metamagic) black out and possibly not remember anything that happened, or is it like they are watching, but can't control themselves?

And sheesh, Fx2 against Int and Will...anyone without the technique would want someone on their side(a normal human with no Exceptional Attributes would have a max of 12 dice to resist...a Dwarf could get up to 13..but vs. 24, the little guy would probably still get possessed anyway.)

A possessed character without Channelling is aware of what is going on, but unable to do anything about it. Very horror show.

Uncle Zola is in charge and doesn't have to compete for control of his body, because of the Channelling Metamagic. If he commands the spirit to do something, then for the period of time that the spirit is acting, it is in control and Uncle Zola can only watch, or re-exert control whenever he wants to, even if the spirit is not done yet in which case the spirits action is aborted. Now, say one of the two initiates something (spell or power) that is to be sustained, as I understand it the sustaining bit can go on, even if the other 'inhabitant' of the body is doing something actively. Sustaining a power or spell can be accomplished even from one plane to the other. So, for example, Uncle Zola may choose to have a Detection spell ongoing, and instruct the spirit to stick with the party and engage in gunbattle if necessary.

Yes, a Force 12 spirit is scarily powerful and can possess just about anyone it wants to. Fortunately they don't usually want to unless instructed to do so. Even Uncle Zola would resist an opponent's spirit with only 13 dice to the spirit's 24. That's another reason Uncle Zola likes to already have a spirit in there with him. (Think Dr. Venkman conversing with the Gatekeeper in "Ghostbusters".) Remember, Uncle Zola has made a career of fighting the Shedim around New Orleans, and they hate him (Spirit Bane). It would be sweet for such an entity not to kill him, but to possess his body, say after he has been knocked unconscious or projected into the astral plane. Having a spirit already possessing him prevents that from happening. When 'swapping out' a spirit, say at sunset, he will be extra vigilant astrally. Can't be too careful.

Ironically, this opposed test must be made even for his own spirits, and the possibility exists that he, subconsciously and automatically, could resist the possession by his own spirit. Fortunately, for his own spirit Uncle Zola's body is considered to be a 'prepared' vessel, so the spirit gets 6 more dice. This is why Uncle Zola may on occasion use a lower Force spirit, especially a Bound spirit -- but not too low as it probably would fail.

But hey, Force 12 spirits are NOT common. Uncle Zola has focussed on being able to Summon and Bind spirits, and particularly to survive the pernicious Drain of doing so -- physical drain for anything higher than Force 8. This is his version of being a 'tank'.

Peter

[pbangarth]

OK, this is silly. Of course Uncle Zola would have learned Slay Spirit. It is integral to his story. I have swapped Slay Spirit in and Makeover out. He will just have to wash his face and brush his teeth like the rest of us.

Peter

[Bobson]

And sheesh, Fx2 against Int and Will...anyone without the technique would want someone on their side(a normal human with no Exceptional Attributes would have a max of 12 dice to resist...a Dwarf could get up to 13..but vs. 24, the little guy would probably still get possessed anyway.)

Yeah, there's some things it's just not possible to prepare for...

[pbangarth]

This is true for all characters -- everybody has weaknesses that can be exploited, and which need to be covered by other team members.

Peter

[Ryu]

OK, this is silly. Of course Uncle Zola would have learned Slay Spirit. It is integral to his story. I have swapped Slay Spirit in and Makeover out. He will just have to wash his face and brush his teeth like the rest of us.

Peter

The possessed and the spirit share one monitor, and each "gets to keep" the accumulated damage at the time of separation (IIRC). So "Slay Spirit" would IMO not help, too.

[pbangarth]

The possessed and the spirit share one monitor, and each "gets to keep" the accumulated damage at the time of separation (IIRC). So "Slay Spirit" would IMO not help, too.

The sidebar on page 103 of SM supports your point clearly. Damn. These PCs have been around and are supposedly some of the best in the biz. Silly me. What Uncle Zola really needs is a Slay Spirit type spell that does S damage, not P. Stunball would affect both host and spirit. It would appear that the only way Uncle Zola could drive a spirit out of a body he wants to save is by using Banishment. Finally I see more value to that Skill for him. I avoided that Skill because I saw Stunbolt and Slay Spirit as sufficient. Silly me.

In battling Shedim, Uncle Zola would have encountered many instances in which the body was already dead, so no problem. But the last thing he would want to do is blast away the street sam beside him to get at the possessing spirit inside. Yet once more back to the drawing board. I hope the revisits to the drawing board end before Jake closes the submissions.

Thanks, Ryu. Humour me, Jake.

Peter