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> 800 Point Characters...want to make one?, Pregens for a potential submission...
pbangarth
post Oct 27 2008, 07:37 AM
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So... I had to pick Shedim to be the spirits that don't like Uncle Zola, didn't I?

Uncle Zola is now edited to be able, well, to have a chance to deal with Shedim and spirits in a body he doesn't want to hurt. Basically, I added Banishing to level 4, dropped a spell, reduced Arcana Skill by 1, moved BP and Karma around and used Group costs to start the Conjuring Group.

Even the Attack of Will does P damage, so that too would harm the host. And touching a Shedim is bad news. Sucks to be Uncle Zola.

Question:

Shedim are described in SM, page 155. There it says they can be considered Free Spirits. On page 106, Free Spirits are all said to have the Banishing Resistance Power. Back on page 155, that power is specifically listed under Master Shedim, but not under normal Shedim. So do normal Shedim also have the Banishing Resistance Power?

As far as I can figure, they do, and the listing under Master Shedim was a redundant listing. Opinions?

Peter
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Bobson
post Oct 27 2008, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (Bobson @ Oct 20 2008, 01:18 PM) *
The other one is less well defined, but it's going to be an updated version of a SR3 edition character I played. A fairly typical rigger type, with two primary vehicles. A highly tricked out van and a walker drone that's loaded to the bolts. The version I had before had two arms with assault weapons, and had another chest mounted... The one time he fired all three off on full auto at once (unaimed), it took out the supports for half the building we were in. How well that'll translate over to SR4 I don't know, but I'm hoping it works out well.


Well, I'm both happy and frustrated with the SR4 vehicle customization rules. I forget exactly how customized the old van was (I still haven't managed to find the sheet), but I'm certain it was more so than the 16 slots of an Ares Roadmaster allow for now... I'm going to have to rethink what I can actually stuff in there...
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pbangarth
post Oct 27 2008, 07:50 PM
Post #128


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The Mana Static spell (SM p. 173) creates a background count of 1 per hit. Background count reduces the Force of spirits in the area of effect 1:1 (SM p.117). Any spirit whose Force is reduced to 0 in this manner is disrupted.

Disruption (SM p. 94) is described as having a spirit's damage track filled. It is specifically said that spirits joined to vessels, "...are only disrupted if they suffer sufficient Physical damage to kill them through damage overflow."

So, if Mana Static were cast in an area in which a spirit was possessing a living vessel, and disrupted it because its Force had been reduced to 0, would that by definition mean that the spirit received killing Physical damage, and by extension, the host as well?

My sense is 'yes', and so Uncle Zola's problem would not be solved by this spell. Any thoughts?

Peter
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ElFenrir
post Oct 27 2008, 08:17 PM
Post #129


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I can't help but think there are more ways to get a spirit out of something without harming it, besides Banishing.

Now, Stun has the benefit of...while ''harming'' the person, pulling enough hits will just leave them knocked out and with a nasty hangover when they wake up. It would suck if you needed them for the mission, though, as it takes time to recover.

I don't see how Mana Static would hurt the host. The host is just...a body. I could walk through an area with Mana Static and it wouldn't hurt me. Why would the spirit being hurt go to the body...unless they share a damage track, which I didn't think was the case, but I may have misread something about them.

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pbangarth
post Oct 27 2008, 08:51 PM
Post #130


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QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Oct 27 2008, 02:17 PM) *
I can't help but think there are more ways to get a spirit out of something without harming it, besides Banishing.

Now, Stun has the benefit of...while ''harming'' the person, pulling enough hits will just leave them knocked out and with a nasty hangover when they wake up. It would suck if you needed them for the mission, though, as it takes time to recover.


Yes, that is my main worry - disabling a teammate.

QUOTE
I don't see how Mana Static would hurt the host. The host is just...a body. I could walk through an area with Mana Static and it wouldn't hurt me. Why would the spirit being hurt go to the body...unless they share a damage track, which I didn't think was the case, but I may have misread something about them.


SM, p. 103, sidebar: "Physical damage inflicted during possession is tracked as a single entity. If the spirit and vessel separate, both retain the full amount of damage they've taken while joined..."

Now, I may have missed the most obvious thing: the above talks about Physical damage. Maybe a simple Stunbolt is all that is needed --IF-- the controlling persona (spirit or Channelling mage) is the only one of the two affected by Stun damage. If only the possessing spirit in control of a character would be hurt by Stun damage, then it would be simple to get rid of it. I can't find anything that specifically says Stun damage is shared as well.

Can anyone else point me to a definitve answer?

Peter
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ElFenrir
post Oct 27 2008, 09:25 PM
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Hmm...in a loophole bit, doesn't Mana Static reduce the Force of a spirit, possibly disrupting it...WITHOUT technically ''damaging'' it? It's a small discrepancy, but it could mean a big difference. So physical damage is shared if a spirit is possessing someone. We don't know about Stun. But Banishing doesn't hurt the host...and doesn't Mana Static technically disrupt/banish the spirit rather than damage it?
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pbangarth
post Oct 28 2008, 02:25 AM
Post #132


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Well, Uncle Zola now has Banishing, and talk in the Possession FAQ thread tends toward saying a mana effect such as Stunbolt that does Stun damage can be directed at either the spirit controlling the body, or the body. If that is the case, then U.Z. has at least one, possibly two or three ways to attack a spirit possessing someone he doesn't want to hurt.

Peter
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Glyph
post Oct 28 2008, 03:56 AM
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Here's the face. Kind of a femme fatale. After I was completely done with her, it occurred to me that a covert ops/disguise master type of face would probably have been better. Oh well, she'll fit in with the rest of the pink mohawk crew we've got going here, anyways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Stats:
[ Spoiler ]


Background:
[ Spoiler ]
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ElFenrir
post Oct 28 2008, 12:39 PM
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I like it. Excellent and face-ing and rounded to boot; plenty of stealth and perception, and Monowhip weapon focuses are always nice for if bad stuff happens. And yeah, I mean, we have a rather fun motley crew of prime runners anyway, so I think she'll fit in just fine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) She's still in almost Pornomancer range with the dice(up to 34), has plenty of contacts and will help the group out a lot, given their not too facey-ness otherwise.

I think Count Blacula is our only mundane so far. The dwarf drake is a mage, Zola's a mage, Syren, Basher, Azael are adepts with cyber, Sir Thomas is a Mystic Adept and we have a Technomancer; unknown about our Rigger yet. But, then again, Awakened and Techno-Awakened are just...awesome.

Also: Good to hear that it looks like Stun might be another answer to the Possession dilemma; well, half-dilemma. In the sense that the more ways you have to deal with it, the better.
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Bobson
post Oct 28 2008, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Oct 28 2008, 07:39 AM) *
I think Count Blacula is our only mundane so far. The dwarf drake is a mage, Zola's a mage, Syren, Basher, Azael are adepts with cyber, Sir Thomas is a Mystic Adept and we have a Technomancer; unknown about our Rigger yet. But, then again, Awakened and Techno-Awakened are just...awesome.

The rigger's going to be mundane.

QUOTE (Coldhand Jake @ Sep 9 2008, 12:01 AM) *
Up to 400 BP can be potentially spent on the base 8 Attributes...I wouldn't recommend it...but there you go.

For the record, it's impossible to spend 400 BP on core attributes. THe maximum is 355 if you have an exceptional attribute, 330 if you don't.

As a side project I'm throwing together some stats for a pure non-cybered mundane. He might have minimal cyber or bio, but he'll have at least 5 essence, and nothing to reduce the essence costs. I want to see what I can do with all that BP...


On first pass, he's a human with 7 reaction and edge, 6 agility and intuition (and essence!), and 5's in every other stat. He's got 30 active skills at 4, and another 10 at 1-3, lots of really nice positive qualities (speed reading & photographic memory, for instance), his negative qualities mostly relate to him having a record trail (and a day job, but I'm not sure doing what - "legal" mercenary, maybe?)... and I'm only 58 Karma over the 800 limit. 10 more points of negative qualities available, and 50k cash to spend right now. Back to the rigger for now, but I'll follow up on him later, if I get a chance.
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Bobson
post Oct 28 2008, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Bobson @ Oct 27 2008, 01:12 PM) *
Well, I'm both happy and frustrated with the SR4 vehicle customization rules. I forget exactly how customized the old van was (I still haven't managed to find the sheet), but I'm certain it was more so than the 16 slots of an Ares Roadmaster allow for now... I'm going to have to rethink what I can actually stuff in there...


Ok, the van's finished. It's not as uber as the SR3 van was, but it's what I was able to put together. It's an Ares Roadmaster stealth/detection/getaway transport. No weapons (but it has the two default gun ports) except for an anti-theft system and a ram plate (and the speed to use it). Even the troll I built will have problems by being rammed at 65 m/turn (which is a rather paltry 1.3 kph or .8 of a mph, and which I can easily reach from a standing start in one turn) - he'd have to resist 48P damage with his 50 dice to resist impact damage... Not happening.

Also, packed with sensors and the best software money can buy. Total cost is about 155,000, which really isn't that bad.


I'm running into problems with the walker, though. THe old one was a centorid form, with four legs, two arms, and a torso. It was also the only drone he had, but it was loaded. Rebuilding it doesn't really seem to be viable in the SR4 rules, at least without GM approval (which is something to be avoided in these scenarios). So faced with the option of re-imagining his drone forces. I could make either a stealth or combat-ready anthroform, based on the two Arsenal models, or I can get a bunch of combat lynxs or the combat drones, or something else like that... Basically, do I want one or two uberdrones (and for combat or for espionage), or a series of lesser ones? I can certainly afford both, but it's a question of what I'm able to transport and still have room for the rest of the team. Roadmasters are big, but not that big (the old walker had braces on the floor in the center of the van, and the rest of the team braced against it along the sides). Thoughts?
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pbangarth
post Oct 28 2008, 06:36 PM
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Ok, gang, I've had a character kicking around since before Uncle Zola, and decided to see what would grow out of the vat if I threw him in with another 400 points beyond the base.

This character is probably dearer to me than Uncle Zola, and I really don't know how he would perform in a 'prime runner' environment. Please kick his tires and let me know what you think.

I present Bongo Slade, Mystic Drummer:

Background

[ Spoiler ]


Stats

[ Spoiler ]





Peter
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Glyph
post Oct 29 2008, 06:43 AM
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Hell with "prime runners", you got the ultimate singer/dancer and the ultimate drummer. Syren and Bongo could form a band. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I like the character. He doesn't quite fit the "make a superpowerful version of X to go against otherwise untouchable opposition." What I like about things like high BP and karmagen, though, is that you have enough points to explore concepts that wouldn't be nearly as feasible in a 400 BP game. With the standard 400 BP you can make effective characters, but points are tight. You usually don't have enough to really get a nice spread of things outside of your main specialty.
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ElFenrir
post Oct 29 2008, 11:43 AM
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That is the exact reason why we use the 750 Karma these days. You CAN make characters like that. My recent fellow, despite being a sam in build and implants, has a really high Armorer/Weaponsmithing skill and Artisan/Metalworking skill, along with Armorer Kit/Shop and everything; and Knowledge Skills that go with this. He can basically just make his, and his team's, own weapons once he gets a facility; but he more or less does it out of the love of doing it; he has some rather nice swords and knives that he makes, in a variety of styles. He prefers making melee weapons due to the basic qualities that go into them. While it does have *technically* more of a shadow-runny purpose, he would like to basically open his own specialty store one day and sell some of his ''masterpieces''.
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pbangarth
post Oct 29 2008, 04:29 PM
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I just took a look at Syren. Wow. Hyper-charismatic, double-jointed exotic dancer with a whip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

This is the kind of person inspiring Norah Jones' "I've Got to See You Again".

Peter
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pbangarth
post Oct 30 2008, 04:44 PM
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One combination tactic that Uncle Zola would have practiced and know cold, but which I would like feedback from the crew here to help me understand, involves combining spirit possession of a vehicle and the reinforce spell. This combination would have many uses, from enhancing our getaway vehicle to hardening a fuel tanker as it is hurled at high speed into a target we wish destroyed.

The thing I am not sure of is how fast could a vehicle go, aided by the spirit's movement power, before various physical forces tear it apart. For example:

1) Hack a tractor-trailer of jet fuel, then physically destroy the electronics that would allow re-hacking (the spirit will drive, and dispossess just before it hits, 'cause Uncle Zola doesn't want to piss off spirits any more than he already has)
- Body of 24, Armor of 8, Speed of 90 (Arsenal, page 193)

2) F12 spirit with the Movement and Guard powers possesses the vehicle.
- add 12 to Body, Armor, Acceleration and Speed of vehicle
- treat vehicle as if it has hardened armor of 24

3) Cast Reinforce on vehicle and sustain.
- on average for Uncle Zola, this will have 5 hits, so add 5 to Body and Armor

So, the possessed, reinforced tractor trailer would have:

Body 41
Armor 25 (plus hardened armor effect of 24)
Max speed of 90 X 12 = 1080 meters/ Combat Turn (over 1200 kmh!!)

Somewhere between standing still and going at max speed the wheels would fall off. Any guidelines, maybe based on Body/Armor, on how fast the vehicle could be made to go and still hang together?

For a getaway vehicle, handling would be a big issue, so keep that in mind. For a 'possessed missile', probably going pretty much in a straight line, handling may not be so difficult. But the spirit would have REA of 12, and also would have the Guard power to help prevent accidents.

Peter
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Bobson
post Oct 30 2008, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Oct 30 2008, 12:44 PM) *
Max speed of 90 X 12 = 1080 meters/ Combat Turn (over 1200 kmh!!)


Why are you multiplying here? I thought it was add 12, which would mean only 102 m/turn.
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pbangarth
post Oct 30 2008, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (Bobson @ Oct 30 2008, 10:29 AM) *
Why are you multiplying here? I thought it was add 12, which would mean only 102 m/turn.


Possession adds the Force of the spirit. I forgot to do that! The Movement Power multiplies. SR4, page 289:

QUOTE
Movement
Type:P â—? Action: Complex â—? Range: LOS â—? Duration: Sustained
The critter may increase or decrease the subject's movement rate within the terrain it controls. Mulitiply or divide the target's movement rate by the critter's Magic.


Peter
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pbangarth
post Nov 3 2008, 10:19 PM
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So, where do things stand with this idea, Jake? Is there more that you would like from us?

Peter

P.S. Man, I sure know how to kill topics! Including this one, in which I posted last, 5 days ago, the last time I checked I had posted in 29 topics, some going way back, and in 8 of them I was the last poster.
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Bobson
post Nov 4 2008, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (Bobson @ Oct 28 2008, 01:29 PM) *
I'm running into problems with the walker, though. THe old one was a centorid form, with four legs, two arms, and a torso. It was also the only drone he had, but it was loaded. Rebuilding it doesn't really seem to be viable in the SR4 rules, at least without GM approval (which is something to be avoided in these scenarios). So faced with the option of re-imagining his drone forces. I could make either a stealth or combat-ready anthroform, based on the two Arsenal models, or I can get a bunch of combat lynxs or the combat drones, or something else like that... Basically, do I want one or two uberdrones (and for combat or for espionage), or a series of lesser ones? I can certainly afford both, but it's a question of what I'm able to transport and still have room for the rest of the team. Roadmasters are big, but not that big (the old walker had braces on the floor in the center of the van, and the rest of the team braced against it along the sides). Thoughts?


Given the lack of other people's thoughts, I've decided to do a series of mission-specific anthroforms, of which he'll probably only use one at a time. This rigger (as yet unnamed) refers to his actual body as the "soft body" and his other drones/vehicles as the "mobile body", "heavy body", etc, or something like that. When you have .27 essence left, and almost all of that is due to headware, it kindof messes with your concept of self...
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pbangarth
post Nov 4 2008, 09:39 PM
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Sorry Bobson, I missed that question. If it matters now, I tend to think small and flexible is better.

Peter
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Cthulhudreams
post Nov 4 2008, 10:25 PM
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I'm slightly disappointed not to see an ally spirit merged with a vampire. That would be the most powerful character you could make with 800BP.

Not clear how you'd pay for the vampire though haha.
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Glyph
post Nov 10 2008, 12:08 AM
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You know, I've been following the Divine Comedy game thread, and it's just struck me that Syren and Portia have a similar trauma in their backgrounds. Both of their lives were turned upside-down when they found out their families were involved in gruesome business practices. Interesting.
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Bobson
post Nov 12 2008, 07:56 PM
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First pass at the rigger:
The basics:

[ Spoiler ]


The Numbers:

[ Spoiler ]



The Gear:

[ Spoiler ]


The Van:
[ Spoiler ]


The van's basically a mobile command center, although it's not armed (other than the anti-theft system, the camera neutralizer, the ECM, and the ram plate). It's packed with sensors, camouflage, and speed, and the pilot's smart enough to basically run it itself. It only takes two turns to get up to maximum speed (which sadly didn't get boosted), and nothing's going to survive being rammed by it once it's had one turn to "run" (or two to "walk") and passes the 60 speed line... because then it's doing 48P+hits damage to whatever it hits, and resisting 16P+hits (with 32 dice). Even the troll I built before can't survive that without getting really lucky.

His personality (what there is of it) amuses me too. Clearly he spends too much time communing with his pilot programs.
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Glyph
post Nov 15 2008, 05:11 AM
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Cool character. Very good at his role, good fit with the team, and even the dry stats for him and the van have "personality". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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