800 Point Characters...want to make one?, Pregens for a potential submission... Options

[mog]

I have a question :

For this kind of character who are great Runners, they have to be over-specialized and be the one in their stuff or be generalist?

It's for my Technomancer i try to build......


( And excuse me for my poor english, I'm french (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Draco18s]

There are both types in this thread, I think. My character(s) are more generalists, that is, built with the same intentions that go into building a real playable character. Other's, such as Bobson's troll are highly specialized.

[Bobson]

[Name in Process]

Strictures:
Attendance, Belief (Practice of Martial Arts), Dues (500 newyen/mo.), Limited Membership (Adepts)

Resources:
Middle, Certified Martial Arts Instructors (at discount), training dojo (no distraction penalty to learning), transportation.

Group accepts any adept or mystic adept who practices martial arts or wishes to learn (the quality must be picked up following first initiation as they are accepted into the dojo and begin martial training immediately with one of the groups tutors). While the path of the warrior is common among the adepts, not all of them take it. Their martial arts skills are put to the use each member sees most fit. Some seek fighting, some use it for self defense, others teach it. Each member is expected to show up to the dojo at least once a month for practice showing that you still adhere to the group's ideals (those undergoing training at a new maneuver are expected to show up two or three times a week for training). Once a month the group holds a friendly tournament between members, which while not mandatory is the day that most members arrive for their monthly meeting, most of these also enter themselves into the tournament.

So how would this group feel about blade-based forms of martial arts? Sir Thomas could always use 14 karma back, and maybe even use them to buy a second rank of unarmed combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ElFenrir]

Basher is pretty focused on his martial arts. Any group that he would consider joining would have to be pretty focused on upper-tier martial artists working to help each other improve - sparring, comparing techniques, etc. Gladio is the closest thing in the books to something he would join, but I don't see him as a competitive fighter in the sports sense, more as a street fighter, and he wouldn't like being a celebrity, either. I could see him and Azael starting a no-nonsense, martial arts-oriented group.

I like the sound of this. I'd be up to figure out one. I could totally see those two starting one like this. I was a bit late coming; it seems that a few things were worked out already, but reading through, it sounds quite good to me.

If we can spend the Karma, I could work with this, easily. I could try to come up with a few things for the group as well, given some time. Hell, if we could do this, I might be willing to scrounge up a few BP(it will be very hard, but i can try (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) for Azael to get a point or two of Instruction. His Charisma is high enough as it is, and he could sort of function as a halfassed teacher.

Though for some reason, I'm getting the comical version in my head of a hugeass, Satyr legged elf punting neonates over the wall who don't block his attacks in a ''twinkle in the sky'' fashion, with Basher around the corner with a pile of other neonates who keep eating the Fist of Doom or something due to shoddy blocking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

On a more proper note, I think it could really work. Ill start trying to do a lil' BP juggling once we get the yes or no on this one, and again, think of a few other things. Middle dues might be ok, these guys don't seem uber-rich but not necessarily living under a dumpster, either. The ''dojo'' might be a recommanded, glorified gym of sorts(sort of Rocky-style place, perhaps.) The friendly monthly tournament is nice, as well. And I also don't see why blades wouldn't be welcome-martial arts that use blades, clubs, staves, or whatnot are just as much martial arts as boxing or kicking styles. The more styles, the better, IMO.

[Draco18s]

So how would this group feel about blade-based forms of martial arts? Sir Thomas could always use 14 karma back, and maybe even use them to buy a second rank of unarmed combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Blades and such are acceptable. Arnis De Mano or Sangre y Acero both focus on bladed combat.

Middle dues might be ok, these guys don't seem uber-rich but not necessarily living under a dumpster, either. The ''dojo'' might be a recommanded, glorified gym of sorts(sort of Rocky-style place, perhaps.) The friendly monthly tournament is nice, as well. And I also don't see why blades wouldn't be welcome-martial arts that use blades, clubs, staves, or whatnot are just as much martial arts as boxing or kicking styles. The more styles, the better, IMO.

You've got it pretty much nailed. The place I took lessons at started in a rented spot in a strip mall, though due to the rent increase it moved into gym and used one of the squash courts. I figure the place the group has is closer to the former with one wall covered in sheet-mirrors (the mirrors were nice).

[Draco18s]

*Thesis: - masterpiece work of art, Intuition + {artform skill} (8 + desired Initiate Grade, 1 week) Extended Test

-examples: musical composition, dance composition, stage play, painting, sculpture

- required as Material Link for group, preferred as Ordeal for initiations

Looking over the group, the second character I'm working on would fit in with two exceptions:

1) Magician and not an adept at all. I avoided it because Kingfisher is already an adept and I wanted them to be as dis-similar as possible.

2) I made her second initiation be the masterpiece, not her first. Not sure if the group would mind that she'd have her first initiation being a ritual geas (and if they'd object to the ritual itself or not). Done to match up with Kingfisher.

Her masterpiece will be interesting though. I have to work out exactly what it'll be, but it'll involve more than a little of the spell Trid Entertainment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[pbangarth]

Trid-entertainment could certainly be a viable artform for the Thesis.

The Children of Apollo as currently envisaged would admit adepts and mystic adepts that follow the Artist's Way. I'm concerned that including non-adept magicians would incur the negative dice modifier during founding the group that comes from admitting multiple traditions. This could deep-six the group right from the start.

Any viewpoints on this issue?

Peter

[Draco18s]

Let me hit up the rules on groups again, I thought the dice modifier was for previous initiates.

Edit: got it. Had to break open core and see what they defined a tradition as. She'd not be all that much help in founding a group anyway. 5 dice before modifiers.

Second edit:
Looking at the rules I don't see why you'd ever found a group with more than 2 members. Just found it with the best two people for the test (threshold of 2) and then let the rest join AFTER. It also saves those other people 5 Karma each (edit: actually, no, there's still 5 karma to join, but the join test is easier, threshold of 1 +1 per 5 members).

[pbangarth]

Let me hit up the rules on groups again, I thought the dice modifier was for previous initiates.

Edit: got it. Had to break open core and see what they defined a tradition as. She'd not be all that much help in founding a group anyway. 5 dice before modifiers.

Ouch. Well, hang on... Bongo has 4 dice before modifiers. I think the extra tradition thing makes broadening the membership base costly.

Second edit:
Looking at the rules I don't see why you'd ever found a group with more than 2 members. Just found it with the best two people for the test (threshold of 2) and then let the rest join AFTER. It also saves those other people 5 Karma each (edit: actually, no, there's still 5 karma to join, but the join test is easier, threshold of 1 +1 per 5 members).

I think that with the teamwork rule, extra founding members could add enough extra dice to make up for the higher threshold. I haven't checked the math formally, though.

Peter

[Draco18s]

I think that with the teamwork rule, extra founding members could add enough extra dice to make up for the higher threshold. I haven't checked the math formally, though.

Only if they get 3 successes. Otherwise they put a burden on the main roller.

Anyway, I looked over my sheets and realized that I'd be saving all of 1 BP by joining a group, 2 initiations just barely covers the cost of joining, and neither character really had a use for Arcana, so they'd only join a group, not (help) make one.

It's better in the long run, of course, but at this stage, only marginally worth it.

[Glyph]

I have a question :

For this kind of character who are great Runners, they have to be over-specialized and be the one in their stuff or be generalist?

It's for my Technomancer i try to build......


( And excuse me for my poor english, I'm french (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

These guys are supposed to be elite runners, so they should be a mix of both - very good at their main role, and not completely lost outside of that role. Being good at your main role actually means you shouldn't be over-specialized, since your main role will be more than one thing.

I will use Basher as an example. His specialty is unarmed combat. But he doesn't specialize in just hitting hard. He also has to roll a lot of dice to hit with, roll a lot of dice to defend with, have a high initiative, have lots of initiative passes, be able to resist damage when he is hit, have different martial arts maneuvers to use, and have a decent Edge. Outside of his combat role, he can still use small arms and heavier weapons, intimidate people, notice things, and be sneaky when he has to be.

A technomancer has a harder time being good in his main role, because technomancers have three skill groups of skills (the cracking, electronics, and tasking skill groups), complex forms, and submersion. Even with 800 build points, it costs a lot to be a decent technomancer. But you could still do more than simply be a technomancer. Maybe you could have the Chatty positive quality with decent etiquette and negotiation skills, and be a decent face when it is over the Matrix, or maybe you could have the first aid and medicine skills, and be able to be a medic for the group. Or even both.

[pbangarth]

Well, Jake appears to be giving us leeway for the moment, so I have updated the entry for Bongo Slade (post #137) to include Children of Apollo and to fix a few errors in skill modifiers.

Peter

[pbangarth]

You are functionally building the stars of Shadowrun...the runners so big that they take jobs in public view.

So, looking at the Reputation section in SR4, p. 257, if we count the second 400 points as 'Karma earned', though we were free to use either BP or Karma, then these characters have Street Cred of 40, and therefore Public Awareness enough to have their own trid and sim personalities. That could be what Jake is suggesting.

Even if we count only the actual Karma points we spent, then we still have Street Cred that has enormous effect in the right situations. Take Bongo Slade for example. He spent 197 Karma, which gives a Street Cred of 20. That's a +20 dice modifier for appropriate Social Skill Tests.

Scary.

Peter

[Glyph]

Actually, the character's Street Cred dice bonus can never exceed the character's Charisma.

Of course, Syren and Bongo both have fairly high Charisma. And Syren was pretty high to begin with (and the breakdown of her social skill ability doesn't include her empathy software, either), so adding street cred... yikes.

[pbangarth]

Ah, I missed that obvious last sentence in a paragraph all by itself. So the bonus is just hefty as opposed to obscene. Yeah, it will be fun seeing someone try to resist Syren's wishes.

Peter

[Draco18s]

I saw a character get up to Public Awarness of 10 (enough to get a movie made) during normal play. The GM did allow the player his final parting act (as the campaign ended) to star in said movie as himself (because Stray was the face and a believable liar).

My character, Jack, got shot by a space laser. You know...when Deus is firing bullets your way and you only have 1 box of health left, you'll do some pretty (ir)rational things.

But it was total worth it.

[Bobson]

I saw a character get up to Public Awarness of 10 (enough to get a movie made) during normal play. The GM did allow the player his final parting act (as the campaign ended) to star in said movie as himself (because Stray was the face and a believable liar).

Notably, he starred as himself without the movie producers realizing this fact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Draco18s]

Touche, I forgot to relay that fact.

[pbangarth]

I found some arithmetic errors in Uncle Zola's stats, so I've fixed those and fleshed out his gear. See post #58.

Peter

[pbangarth]

So after checking out my two PCs, I had a look at the rest with a calculator in hand, and there are quite a few who have either not fully used their 800 points, or who have slipped over the 800 point mark.

Near as I can tell, Bongo Slade, Uncle Zola and Basher are right on 800 pts. Do you think Jake is waiting for us to get the arithmetic correct?

Speaking of Jake waiting for us, I see we are spread out across Europe and North America. I guess having a face-to-face game is out of the question, huh? (Oh, sorry, in Canadian that should be "eh?")

Peter

[Coldhand Jake]

Actually, Jake has been dealing with unemployment, poor roommate relationships, and a wonderful long-distance girlfriend. Been a bit distracted.

Consider for a moment, Dog the Bounty Hunter, a recent fad. He's famous, his work is broadcast, and he's basically doing the work a runner team might be hired to do. Now insert targets who are, like I mentioned, toxic dragons, shedim, cyberzombies, free spirits... and imagine who can hunt them without the bullshit of hiding who they are. That's the point.

[Draco18s]

Care to say what each point total each character is at?

I mean, you did go through and do each of them...

[pbangarth]

Care to say what each point total each character is at?

I mean, you did go through and do each of them...

I thought someone might be sensitive about arithmetic. Of the ones that had category totals, I counted:

Syren: 840
Azael: 803
Count Blacula: 827
Sir Thomas: 743 (no contacts listed)

The rest were either clearly not fully formed or had complete entries but no subtotals. I didn't want to go through item lists and Qualities etc. one by one.

Peter

[Glyph]

Ah, I see. I wondered why you thought Syren was off. It probably is a bit confusing. When I put +20 for her Qualities, I meant that she gained 20 points back, not that it cost her 20 points. So she is at 800.

[pbangarth]

Ah...so ka.

Peter