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> One word, cyberzombie, or "How to be a mad scientist"
Lionhearted
post Sep 9 2008, 07:08 AM
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Imagine yourself as a state of the art cybersurgeon, on the payroll of one of the biggest names in the business, we do not mention their name as your line of work is in the shady and morally questionable fields of this corperations agenda.
In search of a new subject you run into the perfect individual, his name is Johnny and his body is a paragon of the troll race, however he is lacking purpose with his life and you offer him some sanctuary telling him that he is a god amongst men (or trolls) and with your help under the scalpels blade, he can unlock his true potential.
Said and done you equip Johnny with his very first piece of ware. Your promise hold true as for the next weeks Johnny is in cloud9, the sudden sensation of having his body enhanced is enough to keep him in a constant state of euphoria. However as all things are bound to do, the sensation fades.. and your new friend Johnny once again feel that his life lack purpose.. only this time, he knows what can bring him out of his misery. You have him hooked.
As months or even years pass you gradually find yourself equipping your friend with yet another piece of SotA cyber,bio or even nanoware. Until one day you know the limit is reached.
Johnny isnt satisfied however, and all your attempts (however you do not really want to convince him do you?) to convince him that his body has reached the limit and cannot handle any more meddling is futile. So you bring him aside and tell him, there is a way.. one that is rather risky, but also will let him come within the grasp of immortality, you expain to him.. the graces of cybermancy.
Our dear chromehead Johnny doesnt give a second thought before insisting on the procedure that forever will change his life, and so it come to pass. The doors to the near endless resources of your company sway open at your disposal as your reveal the implemention of a new cyberzombie to the workforce, one that you intend to bring to the very edge of what have been done before you. Within a secret corperate deltaclinic you get down to business together with some of the best surgeons the sixth world can offer, along with a ring of highly impressive magicians, one of them a genuine former high priest of aztlan, extracted for this very purpose. The procedure is complete success, and whatever was left of Johnny, is nearly annihilated and encased in the horror that even the shadow community is afraid to mention. Here's Johnny.. and it's a really bad day to be on a run against his corp.

Essentially you have 12 points of essence (putting him at -6) to squeeze out of poor John, at your disposal is near endless resources, so assume that every piece of shady SotA ware is available to you in deltaware.
as for Johnny he is a simple troll with the following statistics
B 10 A 5 R 6 S 10 C 2 L 3 W 6 I 3 Edge 4 (Assume he burns a point of edge for the cybermancy test) before any modifications are made on his body, also feel free to equip him with whatever skills you feel appropriate for your new friend.. Johnny also happens to have that quality that allows you to squeeze even more ware into him (dont have augmentation here atm, so please fill me in on that)

in Short, this is essentially how to make the meanest cyberzombie ever conceived and what how much deltaware you can squeeze in a fellow before the augments start to feel absolete..
How would you make Johnny? and how would his stats look like in the end?

Btw.. Corperation, corperate? (sp?)
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 9 2008, 07:53 AM
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I don't think I could even fill up 12 points of Essence with those rules without just taking everything I could find in the book. I mean, the following only takes up about 5 Essence and would make a nigh-unstoppable cyberzombie. Considering it covers all the really expensive and plausible augmentations... yeah, not sure where else to go to fill in the other 7 points.

Assumed Positive Qualities: Biocompatibility, Changeline SURGE III (Arcane Arrester, Celerity; Berserker, Critter Spook), Quick Healer

Cyborg Cyberware Suite
-- Hardware/Software Improvements: System 6, Firewall 6, Drone Pilot for arm
-- Control Rig
-- Datajack w/ Hot-Sim Module
-- Nano-Biomonitor
-- Obvious Modular Cyberarms
-- -- Customized to Augmented Maximums, optimized for Heavy Weapons,
-- -- loaded with Cyberarm Gyromounts, Bulk Modification 4, Reusable
-- -- Auto-Injectors (6 doses) x10, and the rest of the capacity filled with Armor.
-- Obvious Modular Cyberlegs
-- -- Customized to Augmented Maximums, optimized for Dodging, Bulk
-- -- Modification 4, Nanohive 6 x2, remaining capacity filled with Armor.
-- Obvious Cyberskull
-- -- Customized to Augmented Maximums, Bulk Modification 4, remaining
-- -- capacity filled with Armor.
-- Obvious Cybertorso
-- -- Customized to Augmented Maximums, Bulk Modification 4, Articulated
-- -- Weapon Arm (with tricked-out custom LMG and underbarrel grenade
-- -- launcher), remaining capacity filled with Armor.
-- Move-By-Wires 3
-- Reaction Enhancers 3
-- Skillwire Expert System
-- Nanohives: Anti-Rad 6, Control Rig Booster 3, Implant Medics 6 x2, Limbic
-- Neural Amplifiers 3, Neocortical Neural Amplifiers 3, O-Cells 9, Oxyrush 5, Savior
-- Medkit Supplies, Trauma Control System, Universal Nantidotes 9, Universal
-- Nanite Hunters 6
Sensor Cyberware Suite
-- Hardware/Software Improvements: System 6, Firewall 6, Empathy 6
-- Attention Coprocessor 3
-- Cyberears 4
-- -- Audio Enhancement 3, Balance Augmenter, Damper, Select Sound Filter 6,
-- -- Spatial Recognizer
-- Cybereyes 4
-- -- Eye Light System, Flare Compensation, Low-Light Vision, Protective Covers,
-- -- Retinal Duplication 6, Smartlink, Thermo Vision, Vision Enhancement 3,
-- -- Vision Magnification
-- Olfactory Booster 6
-- Orientation System
-- Radar Sensor 4
Damage Compensators 12
Enhanced Pheromone Receptors 3
Pain Editor
Platelet Facotires
Reflex Recorder: Heavy Weapons
Sleep Regulator
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium 3
Trauma Damper

Edit: And it's "corporate" and "corporation." You're on the Internet, dude. Just look it up.
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Seraph Kast
post Sep 9 2008, 08:00 AM
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I did something similar a while back in some thread or another. Even without biocompatibility, it's hard to fill up a person. I think I made it to -3 essence before running out of space. Personally, though, I prefer not using cyberlimbs. For one, they save on essence, which you actually don't want to do, and second, it's sneakier. You can literally make a guy that wouldn't look too crazy without a serious scanner. I think the Dermal plating or sheathing or whatever it was was the most obvious part, and the guy had something like 16 body, and could wear close to another 24 points of armor. Maybe more, I forget. Plus the hardening they get.

Strength and Agility scores were through the roof as well. I'll see if I can dig it up.

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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 9 2008, 08:03 AM
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Cyberlimbs are worth it for the Armor alone, especially considering that it stacks with worn armor with limitations (unless some have been added that I'm aware of). You don't need to be sneaky when it takes a tactical nuke to slow you down.
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Lionhearted
post Sep 9 2008, 08:13 AM
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yeah but cyberlimbs dont draw upon the incredible attribute maximums a cyberzombie is entitled to.. mr Johnny would have augmented maximums on his str & body in the 30's

(Yes it is the internet, but dont be a twat cause I asked, it's better to admit your errors than being blissfully ignorant neh?)
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 9 2008, 08:19 AM
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I'm not even going to ask how you got to those numbers or, more importantly, why you think it stops a Customized Cyberlimb from matching it. If you raise your natural/augmented maximums (genetech, positive qualities, doesn't matter), that boosts how high you can customize your cyberlimbs, too. The only restriction is Cost and Availability, both of which you have unreasonably negated.
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Lionhearted
post Sep 9 2008, 08:33 AM
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There is an inherent limit on how much you can put into a limb.. or is capacity no longer an issue?
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BRodda
post Sep 9 2008, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Sep 9 2008, 03:53 AM) *
Assumed Positive Qualities: Biocompatibility, Changeline SURGE III (Arcane Arrester, Celerity; Berserker, Critter Spook), Quick Healer


Can an arcane arrester even become a cyberzombie? I'd assume that or astral hazing would put the kibosh on the magic quickly. Even under the best circumstances becoming a cyberzombie is dicey at best.
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Tarantula
post Sep 9 2008, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Sep 9 2008, 02:33 AM) *
There is an inherent limit on how much you can put into a limb.. or is capacity no longer an issue?


Customized limbs (see augmentation) just cost more, and are harder to get (+1 avail per point) than normal limbs. You can custom them up to your natural maxes.

Since theres no availibility cap, and no money cap, then all the limbs are tricked out.
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Lionhearted
post Sep 9 2008, 04:23 PM
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Right.. what limitations would be reasonable for the "meanest cyberzombie a DM ever would pit against his players"
yes I realise this is a relative matter, so let say 400bp characters with X karma, the more experienced GM's can fill that X in what they think is reasonable for experienced runners, the kind who has been running for a couple of years, no real veterans
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Rasumichin
post Sep 9 2008, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Sep 9 2008, 07:53 AM) *
I don't think I could even fill up 12 points of Essence with those rules without just taking everything I could find in the book. I mean, the following only takes up about 5 Essence and would make a nigh-unstoppable cyberzombie. Considering it covers all the really expensive and plausible augmentations... yeah, not sure where else to go to fill in the other 7 points.


It gets tricky after a while.
You can already build absolutely horrifying soldiers without going below 0 Essence and using only bioware if your budget is high enough.

I'd bring in some geneware, though.
For starters, I'd use Genetic Optimization for all physical attributes.
Synch, Reakt and Neo-Epo are also highly recommended.
One could also consider the suggestion from RC to copy the effects of some of the SURGE qualities as geneware.

While we're at it, we might also consider Tailored Pheromones and Cerebral Booster at maximum level, just in case.
A balance tail is also never a bad idea when the subject is completely covered in chrome anyway.
Yes,this is the point where you just throw in everything that's in the book.

As far as the cyberlimbs are concerned, armor can't go higher than 4 per limb, so there's still plenty of room left.
One should really consider bringing at least the AGI in the arms up to augmented maximum.
If you're lucky enough to be able to zombify an adept, spurs enchanted as weapon foci are also an obvious choice.

The best thing you can do, though :
Use a specimen with more than 4 limbs.
The stacking armor makes this a really interesting option.

_______________________________________________________

@ Lionhearted :

As far as limitations are concerned, one can approach this from two different angles.

Viewing it from an outgame or ingame perspective.

Outgame, one might use the prime runners method to construct this thing or use previous opponents his group went up against as a guideline.


Ingame, there are factors like available subjects, a likely budget, how long the corp will want to wait for customized cyberlimbs and how good the cybermancers involved in the procedure are, as well as considering what the CZ was built for.

Results can vary widely based upon wether the CZ was intended for field use as a one-man army, as a way to prolong the life of a valuable asset suffering from a terminal condition or as a cruel experiment to push the limits of cybermancy one step further.
This will also help to decide wether the CZ had previous, non-delta grade implants and wether they where replaced, or if the surgeons even used lower grades, probably even used 'ware, to just push the negative Essence down as far as possible with minimal costs.

The lower the negative Essence, the higher the chances that the CZ will end up as an unusable, nervous wreck.
Going to -6 is extremely risky.
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Lionhearted
post Sep 10 2008, 09:33 AM
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Seem like I lack a frame of reference, Currently we have no SR campaign running.. As this was intended as a pure theoretic challenge, I guess I have to put the idea on ice for a while.. I was mostly curious how far it was possible to push the limit
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darthmord
post Sep 10 2008, 03:36 PM
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If you go the route of used 'ware and no Essence Reduction options (high grade, qualities, treatments, etc), you can get fairly low Essence (think around -12 or so). Good luck with it though. Things get dicey at -4 and less.

If you use the best possible stuff, you can cram pretty much anything you want and still have something that resembles a positive Essence value.
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WeaverMount
post Sep 10 2008, 04:54 PM
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When is it ever practical to make a cyber-zombie from an in-game prospective? You'd think those millions of nuyen could have bought something much more profitable; that the delta clinic would have been better off cybering awakened, and the ritual magic team would have been better off doing almost anything else
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BRodda
post Sep 10 2008, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Sep 10 2008, 12:54 PM) *
When is it ever practical to make a cyber-zombie from an in-game prospective? You'd think those millions of nuyen could have bought something much more profitable; that the delta clinic would have been better off cybering awakened, and the ritual magic team would have been better off doing almost anything else


I'd have to agree with that. I tend to think of Cyberzombies as being built out of scrap parts in the Barrens by mad scientist types to some sinister purpose.

"They said my theories on man machine metamagic were flawed and unworkable!!! I'll show them! Arise my minion and show my ex-coworkers the error of their ways!"

"MWAHHHHHHH!!!"
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Jhaiisiin
post Sep 10 2008, 06:53 PM
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A Cyberzombie is ideal for countering low-level magical threats (due to his hazing) and average to strong mundane opposition. It's a lot of work, but you gain a free-thinking walking tank or being who is way beyond all semblance of normal. The best part is that you need not worry about loyalty. He's bound to you through the treatments he needs. And should he get killed, he's a tax writeoff as he's "property".
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Rasumichin
post Sep 10 2008, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (darthmord @ Sep 10 2008, 04:36 PM) *
If you go the route of used 'ware and no Essence Reduction options (high grade, qualities, treatments, etc), you can get fairly low Essence (think around -12 or so). Good luck with it though. Things get dicey at -4 and less.


Officially, it has not been possible yet to build anything below -6, even though there are theoretically no limits for the amount of negative Essence.

QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Sep 10 2008, 05:54 PM) *
When is it ever practical to make a cyber-zombie from an in-game prospective? You'd think those millions of nuyen could have bought something much more profitable; that the delta clinic would have been better off cybering awakened, and the ritual magic team would have been better off doing almost anything else


Cheating otherwise certain death; creating a nearly unstoppable one-man-army with capabilities in personal combat beyond anything otherwise metahumanely possible; advance cybermantic research to the point where such techniques would actually be worth considering by people other than the most desperate or deranged.
That's about it.

As far as the ritual magic team is concerned, they'll not be the sanest persons to begin with, as cybermancy involves regular visists to an inner metaplane described as purgatory, possibly also ritual sacrifice in preparation of the procedure and the creation of something that is in game described as the most frightening possible sight in astral space.
It is no surprise that cybermancy is referred to as one of the twisted ways in SM, because it is just plain sick to do what these people do.
Cybermancers are mad scientists through and through, they do these things because they are obsessed with being stronger than death, defeating basic laws of the cosmos, yaddayaddayadda.

Does it strain suspension of disbelieve that about a dozen corporations are actually willing to put money into that kind of research?
Well, you decide.

The crucial part here is that cybermancy provides the hope to find a possible way of achieving immortality.
I tend to view the resulting metahuman tanks as a welcome byproduct of that.
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nezumi
post Sep 10 2008, 07:50 PM
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You forgot the best reason; it shows your corporation is better than everyone else. It's like the space race. Landing on the moon didn't really benefit the US economically, and the amount of money paid out is well above the value it's gotten back. However, it did show the rest of the world that we're top dog, and communism can't possibly work. Similarly, corporations build eighty foot tall skyscrapers not because it makes economic sense (it doesn't), but just to show everyone else how powerful and rich they are.

edit: That said, if this is a trophy cyberzombie it actually COSTS the corporation prestige if it's ever put down. Therefore, the cyberzombie will only be used in situations where the corporation is sure it will come out victorious, like in staged battles, combat against seriously inferior enemies, and/or with extreme support.
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Rasumichin
post Sep 10 2008, 08:35 PM
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As i find the idea of a mad scientist style cybermancer producing frankensteinian CZ intriguing, i decided to take a closer look at the minimum requirements for cybermancy.

Unfortunately, by RAW it will be completely beyond the capabilities of a single individual, as a delta-grade clinic, a Rating 12 lodge and a full-fledged team of qualified surgeons, technicians and magicians are deemed essential to succesfully apply these techniques.

What i found particularly striking, however, is that the Cybermancy metamagic technique, which is needed by at least one member of the team, requires both Invoking and Corruption as prerequisites.
Corruption is a technique usually available only to toxics, normally enabling the transformation of normal spirits into toxic ones; this is somehow at odds with what SM tells us about cybermancers, as they appear in the twisted ways section, not under toxics.
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Lionhearted
post Sep 10 2008, 10:38 PM
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Hm.. toxic.. invoking.. cybermancy... hm, Doesnt it say that you need the guidance of a spirit to gain access to the metaplane? I for one is sure as hell as no untainted guidance spirit ever would even consider letting you near that place
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Rasumichin
post Sep 11 2008, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Sep 10 2008, 10:38 PM) *
Hm.. toxic.. invoking.. cybermancy... hm, Doesnt it say that you need the guidance of a spirit to gain access to the metaplane? I for one is sure as hell as no untainted guidance spirit ever would even consider letting you near that place


Yes, to reach any of the deep metaplanes, you need the astral rift power.
You could convince a free spirit to help you, but it would be preferrable to just use an invoked sage spirit for that.
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