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> Die-Hard Troll, Need a second opinion...
Thal'aen
post Sep 12 2008, 11:53 PM
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Scratch that,

I realized afterwards that posting a character build on here might come across as trying to just get attention. If anybody wouldn't mind to review a character concept for me, though, please post here or shoot me a PM, okay? Thanks. ^.^

--Thal'aen
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Tarantula
post Sep 13 2008, 01:20 AM
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Just post it, its simpler, and you'll get more and varied opinions on the usefulness.
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Ryu
post Sep 13 2008, 01:20 AM
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Post away, we love that review stuff.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 02:06 AM
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Alright, here goes...

This is my first character to make, and I managed to get into a VERY high-powered game. Should be fun...

It's a 600 BP game, using basically the same house rules that are listed here. The differences with our game are, 300 BP is max for attributes, 75 for resources, max skill levels are raised to 7 (and groups to five), number of skills at max and below max are doubled (so two at level 7, or four at level 6).

For my first character, I wanted something fairly easy, so I decided to make a Trog who excels at dealing out and taking massive amounts of damage in a firefight. He's also got some social skills, and isn't all that dumb: he was a late-bloomer (metamorphosis took place at 19) who was in the Russian army, got kicked out, got a job working security at the Russian-based Evo, and then (due to a sever problem with coming to work jacked on all sorts of stims) bounced around all over the place before landing a spot as CorpSec for Sader-Krupp. He worked there for several years before striking out on his own as a 'runner, while remaining an 'outside consultant' for S&K (not on the payroll, but he's made plenty of runs for 'em over the years).

And now, down to the numbers...

Stats

Body: 15 (Troll, Bone Density Augmentation IV)
Agility: 8 (Muscle Toner III)
Reaction: 8 (Wired Reflexes II)
Strength: 9 (Troll, Muscle Augmentation III) [a little on the weak side, but since he metamorphosised so late in life, it kind of screwed him up a bit. Stronger than your average human, weaker than some Trolls.]
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 4
Logic: 4
Willpower: 5 [One thing he's learned is surviving, and surviving means never giving up, never letting the drek screw with your head]
Edge: 5

Initative: 12 (3 Passes)
Essence: 0.93

Skills

Athletics skillgroup: 5
Automatics: 6
Blades: 3
Heavy Weapons (Machine Guns): 5 ( 7 )
Disguise: 2
Negotiation: 3
Pilot Ground Craft (Wheeled): 2 ( 4 )
Pistols (Semi-automatics): 6 ( 8 )
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts): 3 ( 5 )
Con: 2
Longarms (Sniper Rifles): 6 ( 8 )
Armorer: 4
Dodge (Ranged Combat): 6 ( 8 )
Etiquette: 3
Demolitions (Plastic Explosives): 1 ( 3 )
Perception: 2
Tracking: 2

Security Procedures: 5
Military: 6
Firearms Design: 4
Corp. Security Tactics: 6

Native Tongue: Russian
English: 4
Japanese: 2

Gear (or, at least the relevant stuff)

Armor:
Light Military Armor & Military Helmet, with FFBA Half-suit and Articulated Weapon Mount

Weapons:
Ares Alpha, with airburst link, and Frag & HE grenades.
Ingram White Knight, with external smartgun system, mounted on Articulated Weapon Mount
Enfield GL-67 (w/ WP, Frag, and HE grenades)
twin Ares Predator IVs
twin Colt Cobra TZ-118s
SPAS-22
HK PSG Enforcer, with external smartgun system, silencer, and Ex-Explosive & APDS rounds

Any thoughts on how to make him better, but not just a one-trick pony? I've gone over a lot of stuff with the GM already, but I don't want to keep pestering him - so any input you have is welcome.

--Thal'aen
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Ryu
post Sep 13 2008, 02:25 AM
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I´ll assume your math adds up... the number don´t look familiar, at all.

Body: I suggest 8 (DR +4), saving 30 BP.
Reaction: 5 (7), saving 25 BP
Strength: 8 (11), spending 20 BP (two points of recoil compensation, even more unarmed damage, your char is an athlete)
Net Gain: 35 BP


Skills
Athletics Group: 5
Firearms Group 5
Influence Group 3
Stealth Group 4
Outdoors Group 3

Bladed 3
Heavy Weapons (Machine Guns): 5 ( 7 )
Pilot Ground Craft (Wheeled): 2 ( 4 )
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts): 3 ( 5 )
Armorer: 4
Demolitions (Plastic Explosives): 3 ( 5 )
Thrown Weapons (Grenades) 3 (5)
Perception: 5
Net spending: 32 BP
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 13 2008, 02:40 AM
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Skill Groups can't be bought beyond 4 during character creation, and you can only have either one skill at 6 or two at 5. The rest have to be 4 or lower.
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BRodda
post Sep 13 2008, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Sep 12 2008, 09:40 PM) *
Skill Groups can't be bought beyond 4 during character creation, and you can only have either one skill at 6 or two at 5. The rest have to be 4 or lower.


The OP said that they are in a higher BP game with the cap on skills moved to 7.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (Ryu)
I´ll assume your math adds up... the number don´t look familiar, at all.


Yeah, like I said, there are a LOT of house rules involved. It was kind of confusing to work with as my first character, but in the end it gave me a lot of room to work with. If you'd like, I can upload the full character sheet in excel form to google docs for viewing, so you can double-check the math. ~shrug~ I'm definitely not above making mistakes.

So, you're saying I should drop the raw attributes some and focus more on skills? Hmm.. I'll look into that.

Edit:

Here we go: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFN...tBccwZTEyV15VSQ
The updated link is this one.
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 13 2008, 03:49 AM
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QUOTE (BRodda @ Sep 12 2008, 09:42 PM) *
The OP said that they are in a higher BP game with the cap on skills moved to 7.

Oops, missed that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Glyph
post Sep 13 2008, 06:36 AM
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QUOTE (Thal'aen @ Sep 12 2008, 07:42 PM) *
So, you're saying I should drop the raw attributes some and focus more on skills? Hmm.. I'll look into that.

Why? His skill set seems fairly well-rounded. The only thing I would do is add astral combat to his skills, since you made him a ghoul (unless Frank's house rules change that, too - but in default SR4, you need astral combat to fight astral entities, and you can't default). I would consider dropping the ghoul bit, myself. It has a lot of crippling disadvantages (astral vulnerability, dietary requirements, etc.), and the advantages are pretty much gravy for a high BP game like this.
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Ryu
post Sep 13 2008, 09:20 AM
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QUOTE (Thal'aen @ Sep 13 2008, 04:42 AM) *
Yeah, like I said, there are a LOT of house rules involved. It was kind of confusing to work with as my first character, but in the end it gave me a lot of room to work with. If you'd like, I can upload the full character sheet in excel form to google docs for viewing, so you can double-check the math. ~shrug~ I'm definitely not above making mistakes.

So, you're saying I should drop the raw attributes some and focus more on skills? Hmm.. I'll look into that.

Edit:

Here we go: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFN...tBccwZTEyV15VSQ


It was just a warning that my gut feeling was disabled by your houserules. But the sheet is nicer to look at anyway, thanks!

- If you have Augmentation, you can add Smart Insulation to your Orthoskin.
- I would consider reducing the rating of bone density aug and orthoskin, because your defensive DP is already something to write home about. Going for rating 1 on both would permit you to get Synaptic Booster II instead of Wired II.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph)
Why? His skill set seems fairly well-rounded. The only thing I would do is add astral combat to his skills, since you made him a ghoul (unless Frank's house rules change that, too - but in default SR4, you need astral combat to fight astral entities, and you can't default). I would consider dropping the ghoul bit, myself. It has a lot of crippling disadvantages (astral vulnerability, dietary requirements, etc.), and the advantages are pretty much gravy for a high BP game like this.


Wait, I'm a Ghoul? ~blinks~

I'm not sure where you got that from, but I'm just a heavily augmented Troll. I definitely appreciate the advice, but I think you may be mistaken...

QUOTE (Ryu)
- I would consider reducing the rating of bone density aug and orthoskin, because your defensive DP is already something to write home about. Going for rating 1 on both would permit you to get Synaptic Booster II instead of Wired II.


Alright. Again, this is my first character... so, what exactly would the benefit be of having Synaptic Booster II instead of Wired II? Other than it lowering my essence drain from implants, that is.
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masterofm
post Sep 13 2008, 04:28 PM
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For every essence you lose it ups the difficulty of healing your character by both mundane and magical means. Having an essence of 1 means it raises the first aid threshold from 2 to 7, and magical healing from 0 to 5. Also have getting bio and cyberware is key as you take the lowest total essence loss (be it cyber or bio) and you half it.

Getting a trauma dampener, and a platelet factory is an amazing combination for a tank character. In the end you might pay more for bioware but you have less essence loss, can cram more stuff into your character, and if you look into it will also make your character much much more badassed.

Also I would suggest taking all of your firearms to skillgroup 5 or 6 and then you can add specialties later with karma. It will save you some bp at the cost of 1 or 2 dice and allow you to stuff some bitchin' bioware into your character.

Also due to wire reflexes your Initative is 14 not 12
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DTFarstar
post Sep 13 2008, 05:31 PM
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I'm away from books right now, masterofm, but I thought essence loss was a dice pool modifier not a threshold modifier. I thought you lost 1 dice per 2 essence lost, as opposed increasing the threshold per essense lost.

Chris

PS - Also, I'm his GM for this so if anyone has questions about the rules for char gen, here I am.
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masterofm
post Sep 13 2008, 06:15 PM
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I think it is more then a dice pool modifier but since it is questioned I will thumb through the BBB, aug, and arsenal. I was under the impression that it knocked effectiveness off of the heal as you are filled with components that you don't want to damage and cyber is well no longer human flesh and can't really be healed. I'll edit this post shortly when I have the answer.

Here is the proof from cyber bioware essence loss BBB p. 84

Essence losses from cyberware and bioware are tracked
separately. Only the higher of the two totals deducts from
Essence in full, with the other deducting at half. For example,
if a character has an Essence loss of 1.5 from cyberware and
2.5 from bioware, then the character’s Essence is 6 – 2.5 (full
bioware) – 0.75 (half cyberware), or 2.75. Players should keep
track of both, as it’s possible one can outpace the other as the
character implants more cyber or bio into his body.

I have been looking for the other part for 30 minutes and am just not patient enough to be able to find it.

On a different note how high can he take his skill groups and what is the highest grade his character can take for cyber/bioware?
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DTFarstar
post Sep 13 2008, 06:28 PM
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Sounds good to me.

Chris
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Tarantula
post Sep 13 2008, 06:35 PM
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SR4, 244, -1 DP modifier for every 2 points of lost essence.
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masterofm
post Sep 13 2008, 06:55 PM
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Ah... there we go.... well I saw that, but I thought for some reason magical healing was different. I have a headache so I'm not going to look into street magic right now.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (masterofm)
On a different note how high can he take his skill groups and what is the highest grade his character can take for cyber/bioware?

Skill groups max at five in this system, and the highest grade available is betaware.
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masterofm
post Sep 13 2008, 07:09 PM
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Drop logic to 1 and get cerebral enhancers betaware. You have just saved 15 bp.

Get firearms skill group at 5 and add specialties to each skill later with karma as it will free up some BP while only sacrificing 1 dice that you could get with cyber or bio easily. That frees up 52 bps. You could use 48 of that to get standard Synaptic Boosters 3. Your essence is now 1.68 not .43. Boost the muscle augmentation and toner to R4 so your essence is 1.28. You could try then adding trauma dampener, and plaitelet factory so your essence is now .88 and you have just upped your agility, reaction, and strength by 1 each. You might have 10 bp left to raise a single stat by one.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 07:26 PM
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Here we go,

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFN...tBcd4-6MbdRarPg

I've been tweaking it a little bit, and this is what I have now. Due to the way this excel sheet calculates skills and skill groups, I have the skill group levels listed, and then the additional levels that I put into that particular skill. Sorry for the confusion.
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masterofm
post Sep 13 2008, 07:35 PM
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Troll is 40 bp. And take what I said to heart about dropping your weapons into the firearms skill group allowing you to beef up your character substantially. Giving you an extra IP +1 str, agi, reaction, and allowing you to drop a box of P/S and convert another box of P to S or just drop a box of S. You can then gain your specialties later with karma in game and make up for the 2 dice lessened later in the game.
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DTFarstar
post Sep 13 2008, 07:40 PM
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Masterofm, I'm letting them break skill groups during character generation, so he has the group at 5 and then a couple ranks in other skills. Also, the optional rules we are using have the Troll at 35 BP.

Chris
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Kurious
post Sep 13 2008, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 13 2008, 07:35 PM) *
SR4, 244, -1 DP modifier for every 2 points of lost essence.


QUOTE (masterofm @ Sep 13 2008, 07:55 PM) *
Ah... there we go.... well I saw that, but I thought for some reason magical healing was different. I have a headache so I'm not going to look into street magic right now.



You're right, healing magic is a bit different:

Pg: 199

Healing Characters with Implants: ... dice pool modifiers applies to the Spellcasting Test equal to the subjects lost essence (round down).

So, if you have an Essence 4, there would be a -2 to the roll for magic healing.
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Thal'aen
post Sep 13 2008, 07:42 PM
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Masterofm,

If I were to take away the extra skill levels that I put into my weapons skills, what would you recommend that I do with the newly freed-up BP? I'm fairly happy with the way the character is looking with my last update, but I'm still open to advice.
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