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> Anyone ever play a "bad guy" in SR?
The Jake
post Dec 24 2003, 04:25 AM
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I know toxics and insect shamans are normally banned but has anyone ever played one?

What about evil guys like Mr. Darke, Teachdaire or any type of shadowy figure that has next to no soul or conscience about their actions?

Anyone?

- J.
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Connor
post Dec 24 2003, 04:35 AM
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I played a blood mage in a short lived campaign. It was a blast and it's too bad that particular GM moved away from Shadowrun. One of my favorite scenes with the character involved a Lone Star sting operation to capture him, since his thirst for blood and magic had turned him into a serial killer. The great thing about it is he was never caught. I'd love to start that game back up again someday....
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Luke Hardison
post Dec 24 2003, 04:38 AM
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I have a player who plays what you're suggesting regularly, acting "without a soul or conscience" and usually add loyalty to that. The other players are starting to not like that much, especially the last part. After he lost all his karma on a run because he shot another player in the back for 200 :nuyen: , I started giving him the option of playing by the amoral campaign rules, where basically he would not get a karma award from the GM, but would buy karma at a variable nuyen rate. I think it's 2d6x1000 :nuyen: ; the rules are in the Shadowrun Companion.
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Connor
post Dec 24 2003, 04:57 AM
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Damn, I may have been playing an elfie blood mage serial killer, but he would have never shot someone in the back for 200 nuyen.


Probably because there isn't quite the same thrill if they dont' know they're going to die :-P
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The Jake
post Dec 24 2003, 05:01 AM
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I don't mind soulless killers necessarily... particularly if there is a good backstory.
But killing other PCs and promoting party disharmony is not cool no matter which way you cut the mustard.

- J.
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Connor
post Dec 24 2003, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake)
I don't mind soulless killers necessarily... particularly if there is a good backstory.
But killing other PCs and promoting party disharmony is not cool no matter which way you cut the mustard.

- J.


I definately agree with you there.

If playing a 'real bad guy' or a blood mage or toxic shaman or insect shaman or whatever else is crimping everyone else's style at the table it's definately time to move on to a new character.
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D.Generate
post Dec 24 2003, 05:34 AM
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If its one thing I hate more in any RPG its those few people that "have" to cause inner patry/group problems. Other than that i have no problem with "bad" guys if there really is such a thing in SR.
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northern lights
post Dec 24 2003, 06:40 AM
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what is the problem with having group conflict? is everyone here so blind that they all think that a group of 5 or 6 different people are always going to think alike? i for one am more than up for playing a little group strife, i think it is more fun than any other challenge cause it is completely the players roleplaying without the gm guiding or directing them.

as for bad players or whatever, i think it is a lot of fun to play a guy with a certain moral flexibility. i think that it can add far more to a campaign when a skilled roleplayer is "bad" then when an untalented rollplayer powergames his way through a session.

what matters is whether the group has fun. there are good and bad people in all the worlds, so why not let it be in shadowrun and enjoy it?
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CanvasBack
post Dec 24 2003, 06:48 AM
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QUOTE (northern lights)
what is the problem with having group conflict? is everyone here so blind that they all think that a group of 5 or 6 different people are always going to think alike?

I'll second this part. Hell, the Beatles broke up and there were only 4 of them. Even bands that stay together fight once in awhile. People only stay married 50% of the time in the good old US of A now adays. I think it's fairly safe to say that professional criminals in a dystopic future might have the occassional disagreement.
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mike_the_fish
post Dec 24 2003, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE (northern lights)
what is the problem with having group conflict? is everyone here so blind that they all think that a group of 5 or 6 different people are always going to think alike? i for one am more than up for playing a little group strife, i think it is more fun than any other challenge cause it is completely the players roleplaying without the gm guiding or directing them.


Indeed you are correct, in real life, 6 people would probably have all sorts of problems, especially if they are professional criminals. However this is not real life. This is a game. And many times, if a player is taking the whole "party strife" issue a bit too far, it can ruin the other players' fun - which is unnacceptable.

Party strife is all well and good, but only in moderation. I mean, if I REALLY want to experience strife, I will go hang out with my inlaws! :eek:
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Sahandrian
post Dec 24 2003, 08:11 AM
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I play evil characters all the time... but then again, I GM.

Yeah, my internet is working again.
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mfb
post Dec 24 2003, 11:20 AM
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what mike said. i mean, if your group likes plotting and planning against each other, and everybody's having fun, go for it. but i'll kick a guy out if he's being a jerkass because that's the only way he knows how to have fun.
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D.Generate
post Dec 24 2003, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (mfb)
what mike said. i mean, if your group likes plotting and planning against each other, and everybody's having fun, go for it. but i'll kick a guy out if he's being a jerkass because that's the only way he knows how to have fun.

Thats what I mean. Whole groups screwing each other over is fine but I had one player who's goal it seemed to cause as much agrivation as possible to everyone including me. Like MFB said a jerkass.

And now i don't expect a group of criminals to be best buds all the time, but then again look at the Usual Suspects those guys were all cool with each other and they still made fun of each other and such. Just like any real life group of friends do.
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Lindt
post Dec 24 2003, 02:53 PM
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I gotta admit, though I havent done it yet, playing the 'ringer' in a group is always fun. As long as its socialy acceptable with the players. Its a pretty dangerous trick, cause its eather gonna make for a great game, or its gonna kill it very nastly.
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Cray74
post Dec 24 2003, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (The Jake)
What about evil guys like Mr. Darke, Teachdaire or any type of shadowy figure that has next to no soul or conscience about their actions?

Gee...

From the time a PC utters, "We leave no witnesses," to the time a PC gets the bright idea that a stun ball meant to take down a willpower 6 target amongst a crowd of willpower 2 shoppers is a good idea, I'm not sure PCs actually have to be Bad Guys to be bad guys, at least if you're defining bad guys as "having next to no soul or conscience."

Now, if you added the caveat, "and were actively Eee-veelll, and strove to do Eee-veelll deeds because it got them off," no, I haven't seen anyone play those sorts of characters in quite a while.

But "souless and lacking conscience" is another descriptor for what players like to call "cold and hardened professional". ;)

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Joker9125
post Dec 24 2003, 03:27 PM
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My very first run another character paid me to help Him kill another character. My character would never kill in cold blood. He would however kill for some Nuyen( it would have to be alot more than 200 :nuyen: ) or perhaps to get a power focus off of the carcus :D !! At least my group seems to enjoy the occasional backstabbing because it adds an extra dimension of realism and danger to the game and it keeps Joe Millionair from flashing around his brand new force 6 power focus.
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Bearclaw
post Dec 24 2003, 04:11 PM
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What's wrong with a rating 6 stunball in a crowd. They'll all get better, right? :D

I played in a one off game where we managed to destroy a decent bit of the world with the combination of a panzer, a chemical weapons dump and the jet stream :) Yea, those were the days.

Anyway, I've never played a trully evil PC in SR, but I did in D&D. It was entertaining, but only for a few sessions. Once the ranger killed himself over the stuff we tricked him into, we all made new characters.
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The Jake
post Dec 24 2003, 10:24 PM
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I mentioned Mr. Darke as an example of a "bad guy" - player stupidity, carelessness, thoughtlessness, or lack of concern notwithstanding. I mean BAD GUY™ not just a bad person or periods of evilness.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not trying to turn this into a morality play, just curious how many people have players who are seriously BAD DUDES.

- J.
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Cray74
post Dec 24 2003, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Dec 24 2003, 10:24 PM)
I'm not trying to turn this into a morality play, just curious how many people have players who are seriously BAD DUDES.

- J.

I was pointing out that, very often, PC shadowrunners come close to being Bad Dudes in the manner you seem to define Bad Dudes. What's unusual about PC runners, as far as Bad Dudes go, is that most SR players think of their psychotic criminals-for-hire as Good Guys, and thus you don't get the actual evil-for-evil's sake of Dr. Evil and Mr. Darke.

Like I said earlier, I haven't actually seen such evil-for-evil's sake sorts of PCs in quite a while. But it's a fine line between a typical runner and a Bad Dude.
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Dr Komuso
post Dec 24 2003, 10:43 PM
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We had a one-shot campaign a while back, lasted for maybe a year, where everyone was one of the big power players. We had Lung, Ryumyo, Teacdaire, and Mr Darke all as PC's (Along with a few custom made baddies).

Very interesting campaign, if a bit light on the dice. Couldn't do too much combat, doncha know? :). Basically ended with Teachdaire realizing he and the others had been playing into Mr. Darke's plans all along and going to wax him while the dragons and IE's sat to the side thinking that no mere human could have actually outmaneuvered them.

Then Mr. Darke gave Teachdaire the joker. Basically involves cutting a slit on opposite sides of the mouth, then casting an Agony spell on the victim so that when they scream.... well, you get the idea.

So yeah, it's safe to say someone was playing a bad guy :spin:

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snowRaven
post Dec 24 2003, 11:20 PM
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Let's see...

Hanging two team members from a roof, blindfolded and with a plaque nailed to their chests - all because they beat him unconscious over a disagreement that had escalated into a fight (characters with Vindictive, Impulsive and Combat Monster have a tendency to go overboard when they get into arguments - don't get me wrong though, it was one of the victims who had these flaws...), slaughtering cops needlessly to avoid leaving witnesses (Invisibility spell + twin hand blades) - this was Sharpe, an ex-mafia gargoyle shaman.

Using squatters as cannon fodder, firing a LAW out of a cafe window hitting the breakfast-eating people with the backblast, flipping a coin to see if he would kill the team decker because the decker wanted to wait for the rest of the team before escaping (they were fleeing from a Queen spirit), killing a mother and her baby (well, to his defense they where ghouls...but non-threatening), cutting cyberware out of conscious people to sell it on - this was Adolph, an SMG toting dwarf wearing an old nazi helmet...

Putting aside 1,000,000 for two Chimera assassins against a former team member, in the event that he disappeared or died(regardless of circumstances) or if said team member ever tried to contact him again, summoning a fire spirit to incinerate two gangers who tried to steal his car - this was Will, a 16 year old Ork Rocker/Phoenix shaman.

Those are three of the worst characters I've seen in my campaigns, I think, though there's been others. No blood, toxics or insects (yet) though.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 25 2003, 12:00 AM
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Squatters are cannon fodder.
Same with pedestrians.

~J
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Sahandrian
post Dec 25 2003, 12:10 AM
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Of course they are. Just get a few trolls and that giant slingshot catapult weapon from CC...
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The Jake
post Dec 25 2003, 12:22 AM
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I posted one of mine here:
http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=2375

He was a bad dude really and you kinda knew his fate from the beginning (like Harvey Keitel in Bad Lieutenant), but dammit he was played really well.

I'd like to play a bad dude at least once.

- J.

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bwdemon
post Dec 25 2003, 09:30 PM
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I always thought that shadowrunners were the bad guys. Good guys don't run around thieving and killing, right? Criminal organizations, black market dealings, sleazy corporate/national ops... bad guys all around.

Now if you mean "more 'bad' than the typical shadowrunner already has to be", then I may've crossed that line a couple times with organ- and cyber-legging operations. It all comes down to the game...
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