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> who uses mil spec armor?
Marduc
post Sep 17 2008, 08:13 PM
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Heavy mil-spec armor doesn't allow other armor with it and thus has an armor value of 16/14, non inprovable. For a price and an availability of 20000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and 20F.

But using formfitting armor and the securiguard PPP system, wearing an armored jacked, one can get an armor rating of 17/14 for 3600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and an availability of 8
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venenum
post Sep 17 2008, 08:23 PM
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I would think you could add the PPP system. As it can be obvious additions to the outside of armor. Additionally you could get another point on each side with the addition of Gel Packs. Plus don't forget the additions that the extra capacity gives you.
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Mäx
post Sep 17 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Marduc @ Sep 17 2008, 11:13 PM) *
Heavy mil-spec armor doesn't allow other armor with it and thus has an armor value of 16/14, non inprovable. For a price and an availability of 20000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and 20F.

But using formfitting armor and the securiguard PPP system, wearing an armored jacked, one can get an armor rating of 17/14 for 3600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and an availability of 8

Well you don't need an inhumanly hight Body to wear the mil-spec armor with out penaltie
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Eryk the Red
post Sep 17 2008, 08:28 PM
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If my last campaign had gone on longer, the bigass troll of the group would have had heavy milspec armor with Strength enhancements for bonus punching power (or whatever else he wanted to do with his already beefy muscles). The capacity is a major benefit.
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WeaverMount
post Sep 17 2008, 08:30 PM
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If you remember to add in the helmet the armor value is 18/16. Then there is modding. Heavy mil-spec has enough armor rating coming from 1 piece it can actually take every listed basic armor mod. Then it can also take the mil-spec mods like an internal gyro mount, a way to exceed aug-max strength (for recoil comp, extra scary bows, and melee), and finally the ability to wear 18 armor unencumbered without a body of 6-9 ( versus 7 for the FFA+PPP+Jacket)
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Mäx
post Sep 17 2008, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Sep 17 2008, 11:30 PM) *
If you remember to add in the helmet the armor value is 18/16. Then there is modding. Heavy mil-spec has enough armor rating coming from 1 piece it can actually take every listed basic armor mod. Then it can also take the mil-spec mods like an internal gyro mount, a way to exceed aug-max strength (for recoil comp, extra scary bows, and melee), and finally the ability to wear 18 armor unencumbered with a body of 6-9

With mobility ugrade a body of 5 is enought and with out the helmet a body of 4.
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WeaverMount
post Sep 17 2008, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Sep 17 2008, 03:34 PM) *
With mobility ugrade a body of 5 is enought and with out the helmet a body of 4.


I forgot to put the 'out' in 'without'. I changed it.
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Muspellsheimr
post Sep 17 2008, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Sep 17 2008, 01:30 PM) *
If you remember to add in the helmet the armor value is 18/16. Then there is modding. Heavy mil-spec has enough armor rating coming from 1 piece it can actually take every listed basic armor mod. Then it can also take the mil-spec mods like an internal gyro mount, a way to exceed aug-max strength (for recoil comp, extra scary bows, and melee), and finally the ability to wear 18 armor unencumbered without a body of 6-9 ( versus 7 for the FFA+PPP+Jacket)


Armor Suits use Capacity, not the Maximum Armor Modifications. So, while you can fit all rating 6 basic modifications on it, it takes up 12 of your 20 capacity (16 if you include Radiation Shielding).

Still, that is a lot of modifications you can tack on it.

Also, although I doubt it is intended as such, I can easily argue that PPP can be worn with Milspec - you cannot wear any other armor with Milspec, but PPP is not considered other armor, rather additions to the armor, same as the helmets.

Oh, and with Mobility Upgrade 3, you can run with Heavy Milspec + Helmet with a Body of 4, unencumbered.
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Mäx
post Sep 17 2008, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Sep 17 2008, 11:55 PM) *
Oh, and with Mobility Upgrade 3, you can run with Heavy Milspec + Helmet with a Body of 4, unencumbered.

Damn you're right, i miscalculated when i said a body of 5 is needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)
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WeaverMount
post Sep 17 2008, 09:56 PM
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Ah good ketch. 20 is still more than 12.


This also raise another question I've been meaning to bring up: How does helmet capacity fit it. Do helmets automatically get all mods made to the suit? If that is the case a helmet is basically 5 extra capacity to chalk full of goodies. If not, then you can really only take one or two mods on your helmet.
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Tarantula
post Sep 17 2008, 10:01 PM
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Military helmets have capacity to be upgraded with vision/audio/sensor upgrades for capacity cost as it says in the description.
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Muspellsheimr
post Sep 17 2008, 10:06 PM
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They have retardedly low Capacity for that, though. You can fit almost nothing into 5 Capacity, considering rating 3 Vision Enhancement alone takes up more than half.
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Tarantula
post Sep 17 2008, 10:11 PM
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Keep in mind they already come with a wireless commlink, camera, flare comp, image link, and smartlink.
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Alieth
post Sep 17 2008, 10:14 PM
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Why couldn't you wear a formfitting body suit underneath the hvy milspec armor? It's only about an inch thick, it's basically a second skin.

On the PPP, it can be attached to any other armor. It isn't armor in and of its self, it is additional armor.

I have a guy running a character right now who wears hvy milspec. He's got something like 25\18 armor, or something. Its crazy.
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Muspellsheimr
post Sep 17 2008, 10:16 PM
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Keep in mind that cyber eyes/ears have a combined total Capacity of 32; the helmet upgrades both audio & video. Also keep in mind that Contact Lenses & Earbuds have no Capacity limit (which is retarded, but RAW).

A armor suit helmet should have the same Capacity available as the armor it is being fitted for.
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Oenone
post Sep 17 2008, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Sep 17 2008, 10:56 PM) *
This also raise another question I've been meaning to bring up: How does helmet capacity fit it. Do helmets automatically get all mods made to the suit? If that is the case a helmet is basically 5 extra capacity to chalk full of goodies. If not, then you can really only take one or two mods on your helmet.


I was under the impression the helmet capacity was for fancy electronics, rather than sticking on things like non-conductive.

But as they're part of the same suit if you make the body non-conductive then a head shot would still have the same resist score. Or else say a chemical seal would protect your entire body except for your head.....
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Muspellsheimr
post Sep 17 2008, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (Alieth @ Sep 17 2008, 03:14 PM) *
Why couldn't you wear a formfitting body suit underneath the hvy milspec armor? It's only about an inch thick, it's basically a second skin.

On the PPP, it can be attached to any other armor. It isn't armor in and of its self, it is additional armor.

1: Because Milspec armor specifically forbids it from being worn with any other armor.
2: As I said above, this can be debated, but it is generally agreed that PPP is considered armor, and thus cannot be worn with Milspec.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 17 2008, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Sep 17 2008, 10:55 PM) *
Armor Suits use Capacity, not the Maximum Armor Modifications. So, while you can fit all rating 6 basic modifications on it, it takes up 12 of your 20 capacity (16 if you include Radiation Shielding).

Still, that is a lot of modifications you can tack on it.

And of course, all that is an optional rule - by default, you can stuff whatever you like into armor.
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Oenone
post Sep 17 2008, 10:21 PM
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One of the main points in favor of milspec armour is you can give it the Ruthenium Polymer Coating. Which is expensive (and better on the lighter armour) but ain't something you can just spray on your lined coat.
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WeaverMount
post Sep 17 2008, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Sep 17 2008, 05:18 PM) *
And of course, all that is an optional rule - by default, you can stuff whatever you like into armor.



Yes you are totally right. I think it's a poor choice though to have RAW mods and RAW capacity, but not a RAW rule saying that mods take capacity. IMO it would feel like a house rule to do anything else but run the printed optional rule
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the_real_elwood
post Sep 17 2008, 11:13 PM
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Who wouldn't use milspec armor, given the opportunity? Not only does it have a lot of protection, but then there's all the enhancements available only to it and not normal armor. Plus, hardened armor is always nice too.

And with respect to FFBA and the PPP system, although my interpretation of the RAW seems to preclude both being worn with milspec armor, if it were up to me, I'd say that you could use FFBA but not the PPP system with milspec armor, though the case could be made for both to be able to be used with milspec armor. It really depends on the leniency of the GM.
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 17 2008, 11:24 PM
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As others have basically sad, albeit not in so many words, it's essentially cyberlimbs that cost 0 Essence. It's one of the only ways for an unaugmented character to reliably and safely boost their Strength, for instance.

The real problem, in my opinion, is the weird-ass way they handle armor in SR4. Everything that can stack -- and there's way too much that can -- adds it's full value to the total of your armor, and most of those options are cheap and easy to get. Just as a quick example, an adept with Body 5, two cyberlimbs and Mystic Armor 4 can have Ballistic 21 and Impact 18 ratings with the Steampunk armor set and full Form-Fitting Body Armor alone, which has 19 or 20 points worth of modification available as well. Even without the Mystic Armor (ie, anyone with Body 5 and only two limbs) he's still at 17/14. All within the realm of character creation, too. If you ignore the Availability limits (which you all but have to for Heavy Milspec armor) it jumps to 25/22 or 21/18 respectively just by maxing out the armor in the two limbs.

Thus it's not that Milspec armor sucks, it's the rules for stacking that do.
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Muspellsheimr
post Sep 17 2008, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Sep 17 2008, 04:13 PM) *
Plus, hardened armor is always nice too.

You are saying Milspec is Hardened? Where the fuck did you get that from?
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Wasabi
post Sep 17 2008, 11:40 PM
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Because the Military Armor uses Body*3 for max armor before penalties and the Mobility upgrade further reduces penalties my Body4 Missions character has a suit. Its expensive but the only way to tank with a low Body character.

Trolls should use PPP+Form Fitting+Swat Armor or something like that so they get maximum armorage.
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Wasabi
post Sep 17 2008, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (Oenone @ Sep 17 2008, 05:21 PM) *
One of the main points in favor of milspec armour is you can give it the Ruthenium Polymer Coating. Which is expensive (and better on the lighter armour) but ain't something you can just spray on your lined coat.


An EVO H.E.L. Suit is a lot less money, as easy to mod with Ruthenium, and a lot more legal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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