 By the Gods?! Is this legal?!, Adept with wired reflexes AND... |
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 Dec 25 2003, 03:41 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 917 Joined: 5-September 03 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Member No.: 5,585  |
Got bored and threw together a stock human adept with Improved reflexes (Lev 2) and wired reflexes 2 (Alpha).
This got to a whopping initative of 5d6 + 13 for a starting character... I know there are trade offs to this sort of thing, but you could structure a flawed sammy who didn't know about his magical side from thse stats...and still have him lunch on "vanilla" versions of either Wired-sammy or Improved-adept. This seems a little wrong to me, but it works in the point and priority systems of character gen. Yeah, "there is no spoon" L- Oh, and a happy commercialism-fueled orgy of spending to all. |
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Dec 25 2003, 03:49 AM
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#2
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Pretty sure it does. But... You just killed 3 Essence by getting WR2. So now the Adept is going to kind of suck and all...
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Dec 25 2003, 03:54 AM
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#3
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
AFAIK Improved Reflexes and Wired Reflexes don't stack, it's either one or the other.
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Dec 25 2003, 03:55 AM
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#4
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
That's it, cracking open M&M and whichever book has Improved...
Edit: Finished. SR3 Core specifically states that it cannot be used with "technological or other magical increases to Reaction and Initiative." |
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Dec 25 2003, 04:45 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 917 Joined: 5-September 03 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Member No.: 5,585 |
phew - ok. Nice to know as the thought of a bunch of half-adept sammies deciding to initaite as they can fit in more cyber that way is a bad one...
L- No spoon for you! |
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Dec 25 2003, 11:43 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
I hate to break the news to you but that really isn't so Whopping. By not taking magic and instead getting reaction booster 6 (Plus 6 to reaction) and wired reflexes 3 you can get 13+4d6 (assuming you're min-maxing and take a Night One with maxed reaction).
Or if you want to go non-initial character for speed get a move-by-wire 4 (you need a miracle dice roll or else etiquette from hell) to get +4 quickness, +8 reaction, and +4d6 initiative. You'll have to go alphaware on it (4M nuyen!) in order to save enough essence to buy the reaction booster 6 as well and your starting initiative is 20 + 5d6! Of course you've got virtually no essence left but who needs dermal plating when you can outrun the bullets? And on top of that expect to get +4 die for athletics and stealth tests. |
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Dec 25 2003, 12:43 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Then there's always the question if combat drugs stack with magic and cyber - or with each other! And then there's magical compounds too...
I have found nothing about this in the rulebooks, but if you assume it can, then you can reach horrifying levels of initiative. I did the excercise in a previous thread, but I believe you can reach 8 or 9 dice and have a reaction of around 30... |
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Dec 25 2003, 03:58 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 7-December 03 Member No.: 5,883 |
you're problem is that you're expecting the character generator to catch everything for you without reading the books. if you want to play that way, try this
buy alpha Boosted Reflexes 1 as many times as your essence will allow. you'll end up with +16d6 to initiative or something, but common sense says that's a no-no. |
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Dec 25 2003, 04:23 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 64 Joined: 30-October 03 From: France Member No.: 5,775 |
hum hum hum , i have a question for init ... and a physad weretiger with impr reflexes lvl 3 ? the init bonus on were tiger comes from ...a tiger is a lot qicker than a human ... and why wouldn't improved reflexes stack on that ?
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Dec 25 2003, 05:29 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Carlisle PA Member No.: 620 |
Yes, they would stack. And then strap on some MBW4! Ok so that wouldn't work. Unless it was magic cyber! Ala the Terminus Experiment. *drool* Cyber-vampiric-half-fiend-hobo's of legend. /lame |
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Dec 25 2003, 07:05 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 22-July 03 Member No.: 5,013 |
Leave it up to me to reply without books in front of me, but I don't think the Tiger Shapeshifter's bpnuses woudl stack. Unless I'm wrong, the Tiger only gets the bonus in Tiger form and adept powers cannot be used in animal form, only human.
-fr, Wrong more often than... um... something who's wrong often. |
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Dec 25 2003, 07:29 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
By the book, adept powers only work in human form. There have been many good arguments to house rule that most adept powers work in both forms.
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Dec 25 2003, 09:44 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 402 Joined: 23-April 03 From: London, UK Member No.: 4,491 |
Besides which, Shapeshifters regenerate anyway, making sure that cyberware comes out as fast and as bloodily as possible.
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Dec 25 2003, 10:29 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
But at least it has nothing to do with dikoted vamps. :cyber: ...Sorry for the non sequitur. But seriously---isn't the initiative cap 5d6? |
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Dec 25 2003, 10:45 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In the shadows of the SK Arcology Essen, ADL Member No.: 1,934 |
What about the idea to implant 2 wired reflexes?
Read nothing that forbade that. *g* |
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Dec 26 2003, 12:49 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Then you missed the "Incompatible with any other cyberware or magical initiative enhancement" aspect. Ignoring the difficulty of implanting two replacements for the same part of your squishy side, only one would function at a time. Any attempt at running both at once will usually lead to them both making the same reflex actions, and your reflexive movements moving twice as far as they should (at best), so be sure to install the on/off switch. |
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Dec 26 2003, 02:13 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I had a feeling that the wording might not be exactly that, so I set out to look for word on Wired Reflexes compatibility. And found nothing. In SR3, the Wired Reflexes entry says nothing about with what it stacks, nor does it say anything in Boosted Reflexes. Reaction Enhancers only say that they do stack with other Reaction/Initiative boosters. The compatibility of Wired isn't mentioned in M&M General Cyberware Rules either, nor in Bioware Compatibility (the only place it is even mentioned, apparently, as something Synaptic Accelerator isn't compatible with) or the MBW-entry. Where is Reaction/Init modifying cyberware compatibility gone over in detail? I'm sure it's somewhere, I just couldn't find it. Forgetting common sense (as you so often have to do when playing SR anyhow), if it says "Incompatible with any other cyberware [...]", you could argue that "other" means that it would stack with another Wired Reflexes, ie that the "other" refers to type rather than particular unit. Applying common sense, however, the result would be pretty much what you mentioned. I doubt any GM anywhere would allow twin-Wired.
Might be that you can't permanently get more Init dice than that. But it is not an absolute limit, since you can easily get over 5 dice with drugs. |
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Dec 26 2003, 03:55 AM
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#18
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
A shapeshifter with initiative increase + Incr Init spell. Perfectly legal. 5D6 intiative.
Or a Boosted Reflexes + Synaptic Accel. 5D6 +2 Or mutant spell caster (mutation: Synaptic Accel. + spell: Incr. Init +3 dice) for a total of 6D6. Yippeee! |
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Dec 26 2003, 07:51 AM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
If you're going to house rule that improved initiative works for a shapeshifter's animal form, they you are giving them a great little Christmas present. :) See, shapeshifters in animal form use their Reaction for physical attacks. So a shapeshifter with Improved Reflexes: 3 essentially not only gets a 6 + 3d6 increase to initiative but also 6 more dice for combat. |
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