Got bored and threw together a stock human adept with Improved reflexes (Lev 2) and wired reflexes 2 (Alpha).
This got to a whopping initative of 5d6 + 13 for a starting character...
I know there are trade offs to this sort of thing, but you could structure a flawed sammy who didn't know about his magical side from thse stats...and still have him lunch on "vanilla" versions of either Wired-sammy or Improved-adept.
This seems a little wrong to me, but it works in the point and priority systems of character gen.
Yeah, "there is no spoon"
L-
Oh, and a happy commercialism-fueled orgy of spending to all.
Full Version: By the Gods?! Is this legal?!
Pretty sure it does. But... You just killed 3 Essence by getting WR2. So now the Adept is going to kind of suck and all...
AFAIK Improved Reflexes and Wired Reflexes don't stack, it's either one or the other.
That's it, cracking open M&M and whichever book has Improved...
Edit: Finished. SR3 Core specifically states that it cannot be used with "technological or other magical increases to Reaction and Initiative."
Edit: Finished. SR3 Core specifically states that it cannot be used with "technological or other magical increases to Reaction and Initiative."
phew - ok. Nice to know as the thought of a bunch of half-adept sammies deciding to initaite as they can fit in more cyber that way is a bad one...
L-
No spoon for you!
L-
No spoon for you!
I hate to break the news to you but that really isn't so Whopping. By not taking magic and instead getting reaction booster 6 (Plus 6 to reaction) and wired reflexes 3 you can get 13+4d6 (assuming you're min-maxing and take a Night One with maxed reaction).
Or if you want to go non-initial character for speed get a move-by-wire 4 (you need a miracle dice roll or else etiquette from hell) to get +4 quickness, +8 reaction, and +4d6 initiative. You'll have to go alphaware on it (4M nuyen!) in order to save enough essence to buy the reaction booster 6 as well and your starting initiative is 20 + 5d6!
Of course you've got virtually no essence left but who needs dermal plating when you can outrun the bullets? And on top of that expect to get +4 die for athletics and stealth tests.
Or if you want to go non-initial character for speed get a move-by-wire 4 (you need a miracle dice roll or else etiquette from hell) to get +4 quickness, +8 reaction, and +4d6 initiative. You'll have to go alphaware on it (4M nuyen!) in order to save enough essence to buy the reaction booster 6 as well and your starting initiative is 20 + 5d6!
Of course you've got virtually no essence left but who needs dermal plating when you can outrun the bullets? And on top of that expect to get +4 die for athletics and stealth tests.
Then there's always the question if combat drugs stack with magic and cyber - or with each other! And then there's magical compounds too...
I have found nothing about this in the rulebooks, but if you assume it can, then you can reach horrifying levels of initiative. I did the excercise in a previous thread, but I believe you can reach 8 or 9 dice and have a reaction of around 30...
I have found nothing about this in the rulebooks, but if you assume it can, then you can reach horrifying levels of initiative. I did the excercise in a previous thread, but I believe you can reach 8 or 9 dice and have a reaction of around 30...
you're problem is that you're expecting the character generator to catch everything for you without reading the books. if you want to play that way, try this
buy alpha Boosted Reflexes 1 as many times as your essence will allow. you'll end up with +16d6 to initiative or something, but common sense says that's a no-no.
buy alpha Boosted Reflexes 1 as many times as your essence will allow. you'll end up with +16d6 to initiative or something, but common sense says that's a no-no.
hum hum hum , i have a question for init ... and a physad weretiger with impr reflexes lvl 3 ? the init bonus on were tiger comes from ...a tiger is a lot qicker than a human ... and why wouldn't improved reflexes stack on that ?
| QUOTE (Liquid_Obsidian) |
| hum hum hum , i have a question for init ... and a physad weretiger with impr reflexes lvl 3 ? the init bonus on were tiger comes from ...a tiger is a lot qicker than a human ... and why wouldn't improved reflexes stack on that ? |
Yes, they would stack.
And then strap on some MBW4!
Ok so that wouldn't work.
Unless it was magic cyber! Ala the Terminus Experiment. *drool* Cyber-vampiric-half-fiend-hobo's of legend.
/lame
Leave it up to me to reply without books in front of me, but I don't think the Tiger Shapeshifter's bpnuses woudl stack. Unless I'm wrong, the Tiger only gets the bonus in Tiger form and adept powers cannot be used in animal form, only human.
-fr, Wrong more often than... um... something who's wrong often.
-fr, Wrong more often than... um... something who's wrong often.
By the book, adept powers only work in human form. There have been many good arguments to house rule that most adept powers work in both forms.
Besides which, Shapeshifters regenerate anyway, making sure that cyberware comes out as fast and as bloodily as possible.
| QUOTE (simonw2000) |
| Besides which, Shapeshifters regenerate anyway, making sure that cyberware comes out as fast and as bloodily as possible. |
But at least it has nothing to do with dikoted vamps.
...Sorry for the non sequitur. But seriously---isn't the initiative cap 5d6?
What about the idea to implant 2 wired reflexes?
Read nothing that forbade that. *g*
Read nothing that forbade that. *g*
| QUOTE (Rock-Steady) |
| What about the idea to implant 2 wired reflexes? Read nothing that forbade that. *g* |
Then you missed the "Incompatible with any other cyberware or magical initiative enhancement" aspect. Ignoring the difficulty of implanting two replacements for the same part of your squishy side, only one would function at a time. Any attempt at running both at once will usually lead to them both making the same reflex actions, and your reflexive movements moving twice as far as they should (at best), so be sure to install the on/off switch.
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| Then you missed the "Incompatible with any other cyberware or magical initiative enhancement" aspect. |
I had a feeling that the wording might not be exactly that, so I set out to look for word on Wired Reflexes compatibility. And found nothing. In SR3, the Wired Reflexes entry says nothing about with what it stacks, nor does it say anything in Boosted Reflexes. Reaction Enhancers only say that they do stack with other Reaction/Initiative boosters. The compatibility of Wired isn't mentioned in M&M General Cyberware Rules either, nor in Bioware Compatibility (the only place it is even mentioned, apparently, as something Synaptic Accelerator isn't compatible with) or the MBW-entry. Where is Reaction/Init modifying cyberware compatibility gone over in detail? I'm sure it's somewhere, I just couldn't find it.
Forgetting common sense (as you so often have to do when playing SR anyhow), if it says "Incompatible with any other cyberware [...]", you could argue that "other" means that it would stack with another Wired Reflexes, ie that the "other" refers to type rather than particular unit.
Applying common sense, however, the result would be pretty much what you mentioned. I doubt any GM anywhere would allow twin-Wired.
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| But seriously---isn't the initiative cap 5d6? |
Might be that you can't permanently get more Init dice than that. But it is not an absolute limit, since you can easily get over 5 dice with drugs.
A shapeshifter with initiative increase + Incr Init spell. Perfectly legal. 5D6 intiative.
Or a Boosted Reflexes + Synaptic Accel. 5D6 +2
Or mutant spell caster (mutation: Synaptic Accel. + spell: Incr. Init +3 dice) for a total of 6D6.
Yippeee!
Or a Boosted Reflexes + Synaptic Accel. 5D6 +2
Or mutant spell caster (mutation: Synaptic Accel. + spell: Incr. Init +3 dice) for a total of 6D6.
Yippeee!
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| By the book, adept powers only work in human form. There have been many good arguments to house rule that most adept powers work in both forms. |
If you're going to house rule that improved initiative works for a shapeshifter's animal form, they you are giving them a great little Christmas present.
See, shapeshifters in animal form use their Reaction for physical attacks. So a shapeshifter with Improved Reflexes: 3 essentially not only gets a 6 + 3d6 increase to initiative but also 6 more dice for combat.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.