The Uncybered Mundane, I do believe there is SOME room for these folks... Options

[Karaden]

A slight revision to my original character, with a very slight varriant that makes him an elf.

[ Spoiler ]

Ultra natural troll

Metarace: Troll
Bod: 10 120
Agi: 4 27
Rea: 5 42
Str: 9 90
Cha: 2 6
Int: 4 27
Log: 4 27
Wil: 5 42
Edge: 6 60
Init: 10

441

Positive Qualities:
Martial Arts 10 (Karate +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 20 (Kickboxing +2 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Tae Kwon Do +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Wildcat +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Kung Fu +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Boxing +1 DV unarmed attacks)

Mild alcohol addiction -10
Scortched -10
Sensitive System -30
Sensitive Neural Structure -10
Weak Immune System -10

441

Martial Arts Manuvers
Blind Fighting 4
Break Weapon 4
Kick Attack 4
Ground Fighting 4
Sweep 4
Finishing Move 4
Vicious Blow 4

Skills:
Unarmed Combat 6 (Kickboxing) 46
Athletic Group 4 55
Infiltration 4 (Urban) 24
Perception (Visual) 24
Survival 4 22
Intimidation 4 (Physical) 24
Demolitions 22
First Aid 4 22
Heavy Weapons 4 22

739

Resources: 10000 4

Form Fitting Full-Body Suit 6/2 1600
Armor Jacket 8/6 900
Helmet +2/+1 100
Forearm Guards +0/+1 200
Leg and Arm Castings +1/+1 350
Shin Guards +0/+1 150
Vitals Protectors +1/+1 200
Bike Racing Armor 4/7 500
Auto Injector (Kamikazex2, Jazzx2, Nitro) 1500

Steel Toed Boots

Total Armor 6+8+4/2+2+1+1+1(dermal plates)=23B 2+6/2+7+1+1+1+1+1+1(dermal plates)=18I
No encomberance 3+8+4+2+1+1=19<bodx2 and 1+6+7+1+1+1+1+1=19<bodx2

4500 for other equipment
16 karma for contact(s) (Or more equipment)

Ok, changed the error I made with the maxed out stats. Not bad overall really. I traded in an inititive point and an attack DP in order to get 3 extra dice on Demolitions and First Aid. Also the addition of the boots brings his DV up by 1 and makes is physical.

And here I've made roughly the same character as an elf. Much less conspicous and thus all the more frightening.

[ Spoiler ]

Ultra natural elf fighter

Metarace: Elf
Bod: 5 42
Agi: 7 75
Rea: 5 42
Str: 5 42
Cha: 6 45
Int: 5 42
Log: 5 42
Wil: 5 42
Edge: 6 60
Init: 10

432

Positive Qualities:
Martial Arts 10 (Karate +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 20 (Kickboxing +2 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Tae Kwon Do +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Wildcat +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Kung Fu +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Boxing +1 DV unarmed attacks)

Mild alcohol addiction -10
Scortched -10
Sensitive System -30
Sensitive Neural Structure -10
Weak Immune System -10

432

Martial Arts Manuvers
Blind Fighting 4
Break Weapon 4
Kick Attack 4
Ground Fighting 4
Sweep 4
Finishing Move 4
Vicious Blow 4

Skills:
Unarmed Combat 6 (Kickboxing) 46
Athletic Group 4 55
Infiltration 4 (Urban) 24
Perception (Visual) 24
Survival 4 22
Intimidation 4 (Physical) 24
Demolitions 22
First Aid 4 22
Heavy Weapons 4 22

730

Resources: 12500 5

Form Fitting Full-Body Suit 6/2 1600
Helmet +2/+1 100
Vitals Protectors +1/+1 200
Bike Racing Armor 4/7 500
Auto Injector (Kamikazex2, Jazzx2, Nitro) 1500

Steel Toed Boots

Total Armor 6+4+2+1+1=13B 2+7+1+1+1=12I
No encomberance 3+4+2+1=10<=bodx2 and 1+7+1+1=10<=bodx2

8600 for other equipment
24 karma for contact(s) (Or more equipment)

So, what all has changed? DV has dropped from 13 to 11, armor has dropped from 23/18 to 13/12, with body dropping from 10 to 5. Unarmed DP has increased from 14 to 16. Has also become far more intimidating (Somehow) and slightly better at Demolitions and Intimidation. Heavy weapons could defiently be switched out for a different skill as elf lacks the massive strength to carry those weapons around no trouble, though they could of course still be handled.

Overall only a little difference in direct combat ability, though a significant change in ability to take a hit. In echange the character is far less conspicious, being simply another elf and with the cha required to charm his/her way past any small obstical that might arise.

[Glyph]

Only two problems. First, the bonus is limited to your skill, so you can't have +7DV - you are stuck with +6DV max. And FFBA is the only armor that stacks with other armor - the armor jacket/bike racing armor will give you 8/7 armor, but not [8 + 4]/[6 + 7] armor.

So he would have "only" +6DV, 19 Ballistic, and 15 Impact armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ElFenrir]

Actually, Glyph, I didn't even know DV was equal to your skill; which is why I houseruled the +2DV. I didn't catch that part in the book...but come to think of it, I KIND of remember something along the lines of ''number of martial arts styles=your skill''. Which makes sense. And I forgot about the armor as well. To be honest, I never catch these things because I always have trouble keeping straight in my head what stacks and what doesn't. I always have to look at a book.

Looking at both of our elves(to compare them for fun), I can see one of the slight similarities, and some differences. Your guys has some better stats overall, but their Body, Agility, Reaction, Strength, and Intuition are all the same. Mine has the Lightning Reflexes, your guys has improvements in the other stats. My fellow went 5+2 on Blades AND Unarmed. Your fellow has one more maneuver and an extra die unarmed, mine has more social skills/pistols/couple other things, and your fellow opted for different skills like survival, demolitions, and first aid.

Your guy has more DV(9 if you stack +6, 10 with hardliners), my guy sits at 6(but if i stacked as well, he'd be one less), even though they could arm-wrestle each other at the table for days. In training, your guy maybe spent more time knowing where EXACTLY to hit and how hard, mine did learn some of that(6P damage for an uncybered person is harsh), but he also learned how to get the drop so they can't defend those attacks. You fella might be more up-front(though his infiltration skill can let him sneak and his good Reaction lets him get the drop)-I picked up the Tailing skill, the Reaction bonus and the Surprise bonus dice to make him, in a way, deadlier if he hides in a window on the first floor, and then greets someone with a flying kick. OR...with his Con skill...lure them into a sense of security...and them wham. I could even up that skill with a specialization.


Either way, if these two were on a team with a bunch of cybered runners, I could see them impressing even cybered folks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ended up going out into the real world yesterday, so I didn't finish two more samples, but I'll have them up today.

[Karaden]

Only two problems. First, the bonus is limited to your skill, so you can't have +7DV - you are stuck with +6DV max. And FFBA is the only armor that stacks with other armor - the armor jacket/bike racing armor will give you 8/7 armor, but not [8 + 4]/[6 + 7] armor.

So he would have "only" +6DV, 19 Ballistic, and 15 Impact armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

First, I've never seen that rule. It doesn't make sense anyway because what about the martial arts that are focused on the use of guns? Or even those that focus on weapons. You'd end up being maxed by unarmed skill + blade skill + club skill + various gun skills. So yeah, if you can quote it I'll believe you, in the mean time it isn't anywhere obvious under the martial arts section.

Edit: Man, my ability to read has really dropped lately. Your right, it would be limited to +6, though I could easily argue that his martial arts specialty should be allowed to raise that to +8. If not, well add in a level of High Pain Tolerance or whatever other 10 karma quality you would care for with him, not going to re-mod him for that.

And your right that the armor wouldn't stack like I had it doing. His ballistic should drop two and him impact three (Was using the old rules that you got half the value for stacking armor) So Ballistic only goes down to 21, not 19, and Impact only goes down to 18, not 15.

Still plenty good for taking a shot. I mean heck, he could soak a good chunk of a panther cannon -and- it would only be stun damage.

Edit:
Yeah, lots of similarities between them. I mean you have to expect it when creating the same race that is supposed to fill roughly the same function. Your guy backs up as a face, mine backs up as a few other things such as Heavy Weaponry.

Should be interesting to see how other characters of similar skill sets compare.

[Fortune]

I was going to give you the quote, but since you edited ...

Your right, it would be limited to +6, though I could easily argue that his martial arts specialty should be allowed to raise that to +8.

Technically, Specialization is a Skill modifier (just like Vision Enhancement or a Smartlink), and is never considered part of the actual Skill level or rating.

[Karaden]

I was going to give you the quote, but since you edited ...



Technically, Specialization is a Skill modifier (just like Vision Enhancement or a Smartlink), and is never considered part of the actual Skill level or rating.

Actually I just happened to look over it again.
(emphisis added)

The maximum number of dice that can be added to or subtracted from a character's dice pool from martial art modifiers is equal to the rating of the relevant Combat skill.

Last I checked DV isn't a dice pool, so I'm more then free to have +50 DV from martial arts if I can get bonuses from enough styles.

So, my original DVs still stand.

[Fortune]

Doesn't change the fact that Specialization is a Dice Pool modifier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Glyph]

Take another look at what you are adding - my Ballistic/Impact values are correct.

If you think the rule on pg. 156 doesn't apply, then the DVs wouldn't stack at all, and would be limited to +2 (how I run it, myself - +2 DV lets someone with Strength: 1 hit as hard as someone with Strength: 6, and is a higher damage increase than you get from hardliner gloves, the equivalent of brass nucks. Letting it go above that seems implausible).

[Karaden]

Take another look at what you are adding - my Ballistic/Impact values are correct.

If you think the rule on pg. 156 doesn't apply, then the DVs wouldn't stack at all, and would be limited to +2 (how I run it, myself - +2 DV lets someone with Strength: 1 hit as hard as someone with Strength: 6, and is a higher damage increase than you get from hardliner gloves, the equivalent of brass nucks. Letting it go above that seems implausible).

Your right, I did my original adding compleatly wrong (Had ment to give the lesser vaules only 1/2 normal rating but gave full) So yeah, your armor values are correct.

A character gains the advantages of all martial arts styles she knows

So why exactly wouldn't the DVs stack? You are correct though, the wording of the paragraph is a little ambigious. It says you get advantages from all styles, but then it goes on to talk exclusively about dice pools stacking, leaving something like DV hanging out. If you go compleatly by the rules there is no reason it shouldn't stack thanks to the line I just quoted. On the other hand there is nothing that spesifically states that DV (which isn't a dice pool) does or does not stack. And if it does stack, they may or may not have been talking about DV being limited as a dice pool.

In the end I suppose your right that they meant to include DV when they said Dice Pool. Would have been so much simpler to simply say modifiers instead of Dice Pool, but whatever (Something to go in an errata I suppose). So, take off his boxing, drop his DV by 1 and give him 10 extra karma to play with.

[ElFenrir]

Oki, let me reread the rule here, just for the hell of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I know this particular rule has been of some discussion here before. Like, since Arsenal came out.

By RAW, it says if the styles overlap, the dice modifiers stack. Now, DV modifiers are not technically dice modifiers. As the rule is written, it means, say, if MA 1 gives you the ability to take +2 dice to Surprise Attacks, and MA 2 and 3 let you take +1 under them, if you paid 20 BP, you could take +4 to surprise attacks...as long as you had an Unarmed Combat skill of at least 4. (Specializations, as I always knew it, are like..a Smartlink. Modifies the Dice Pool, not the skill. Someone with Blades(Swords) 5(+2) can only take 2 levels of the adept Improved Ability, for example.)

Now, in the rules, it doesn't say you *can't* stack DV. In fact, it's very reasonable why someone could read it like that-if dice modifiers stack, why not DV?

What MIGHT read better, IMO, is if they flat out-said ''you can't stack DV past +2'', ''DVs from different martial arts don't stack'' (ok, then everyone would take are boxing or kickboxing before all others and you know it...hey, I take em. I'm waving a guilty flag. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

Or, it could specifically say ''All BONUSES from Martial Arts stack'' rather than Die Pool modifiers, with the Martial Arts limit.

The house rule that myself, Glyph, and some others use are more or less I guess for sanity. While i have no problem in theory with the super-skilled, Martial Arts 7 wise old master whose physical body has gone weaker(Strength 2) being able to beat the crap out of you by knowing exactly when, where, and what to hit(assuming this is where the stacking DV comes from), in practice, this is never the case; high ass DVs are almost always stacked on top of people who are already rather mighty-and no matter how many cool abilities martial arts give, people go for DVs and only DVs many times. I think it's great that the DV increase is there(and it makes sense that it is, a trained person would know that), it should be reigned in a bit.

As i like to say, when someone like myself, who LOVES melee characters and runs a rather loose game with no Availability limit at chargen and generally the easiest rulings for many rules(like Hardliners providing +1 DV than having their own damage code) thinks something is too much, then it might be too much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Hell, said strength 1 person can hit for 4P....one less than a heavy pistol and as much as a strength 7 troll. That is respectable as hell.

[Karaden]

True, you can nit-pick the characters to death thanks to a single ambiguous paragraph in the book, but overall I think they are proof of concept, you can have a decent melee character without stuffing him full of 'wares.

[Kairo]

you can have a decent melee character without stuffing him full of 'wares.

QFT

My gaming group has used (and one still does) unaugmented mundanes. Are they as effective or stat monster-ish as other concepts? Obviously no. Can they be enjoyable to play and still be effective in a campaign? Absolutely.

[ElFenrir]

That is true, and it's the point of the thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I assumed that people would be taking advantage of things like Positive Qualities, heavy advantage of Specializations, solid Attribute bases and the like to help bridge the gap between the two. I think the nitpicking is an almost natural impulse of folks on the forum when dealing with ambiguious rules. I supoose the whole DV stacking thing gets me in my 'nitpick' mode just due to the fact there are so many other awesome things you can do...but DV is good, so people take it. Again, it's not often I make a melee character that doesn't take the +2 DV.

I kind of look at it in other ways too; take gun mods. There are lots of crazy gun mods one can get; extended clips, ceramic parts, custom looks, and so on...but the number one thing people stack? Recoil Mods...which, in a way, directly increase your DV. If there were a gun mod that, say, increased the DV of a gun by 1, and it didn't say any specific limit, I almost bet people would be picking up guns with some inate recoil mods and stacking this one to the sky, despite all of the other things. It's DV at the end of the day that knocks people out or kills them.

I always hate to sound nitpicky because I'm not that type usually, and again, I'm guilty of building some cybered or adept 9-10 DV monsters(with either of them it's screamingly easy to do-you can do it without taking the +DV) but...gah. I don't quite know how to put all my thoughts into words about it. I apologize for my nitpickiness and I don't want you to think I'm picking on you directly, because I'm not-I'm picking on the rule. I sorta get that way in every thread where I see people stacking martial arts DVs forever, cyber, adept, mundane, or whatnot. I can't help but shake the nagging feeling that even though it doesn't specifically say no, I'm not sure they were meant to be used that way. As they like to say, it's not you; it's me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You are correct, though-the certainly bridge the gap between the mundane and the cyber/magic folks and prove you don't need any of it, which, again, one of my points of the thread in general of mundane vs. augmented/awakened. In fact, being a melee fanatic, I almost feel like I'm busy ''betraying the cause'' of making melee awesome by making houserules like this, causing melee fans to yell ''whose side are you on?!?!'' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

But in any case, I have another offering here:

[ Spoiler ]

Brian Cortez
Troll Male
27 Years
Light brown hair(medium length), gray eyes
2.4 meters, 250kg

Brian is a keen sniper; once corporately employed and removed from service after a few of the more racist people planted evidence around that he some things he shouldn't have. He's not the biggest or strongest troll around, but he's no slouch, and his expertise with a rifle borderlines on supernatural, even though it's nothing but pure skill, dedication, and natural talent. He's got a fair smattering of other skills, even knowing how to handle the heavier things, and is a surprisingly stealthy guy. He's usually seen wearing his longcoat, a pair of jeans and a T-Shirt; he has a distinct taste for bitter English ales. He never modded his body, nor does he want to; the idea of shoving metal into onself just does not take to him, at all. It almost makes him squeamish, in fact.


+ Qualities:
Hawk Eye(10)
Aptitude: Rifles(20)
Black Market Pipeline(20)

Cost: 50 Karma

Attributes[294 Karma]

Body: 7[1+ damage dermal]
Agility: 5
Reaction: 5
Strength: 6
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 4
Logic: 4
Willpower: 5
Edge: 5
Initative: 9/1
Essence: 6

Active Skills[272 Karma]

Longarms[Rifles]: 7(+2)
Pistols[Semi-Automatics]: 4(+2)
Unarmed Combat: 2
Pilot Ground Craft[Wheeled]: 2(+2)
Dodge: 4
Etiquette[Corp]: 3(+2)
Con[Fast-Talk]: 3(+2)
Heavy Weapons: 3
Perception[Visual]: 4(+2)
Infiltration[Urban]: 4(+2)
Shadowing[Tailing]: 3(+2)
Armorer: 2
Tracking: 2
Data Search: 2

Knowledge/Language Skills:[80 Karma]

Physics[Ballistics]: 3(+2)
Safehouse Locations: 3
Alcohol[Ales]: 3(+2)
Local Area Knowledge: 4
Corporate Policies: 3
Mob Turf: 3
Comic Books: 3

Spanish: N
English: 5
Russian: 3

Contacts[34 Karma]

Fixer: C5 L4
Comic Shop Owner: C1 L2
Armorer: C3 L 2

Resources: 20 Karma(50,000 nuyen)

Well, Brian is tough, good Willpower, and throws 14 dice(16 smartlinked) to snipe with, which is pretty damn nice. He can track, search out his targets, get along socially, and defend himself in melee if he has to as well. He's quite stealthy on top of it. No real glaring weaknesses to this guy overall. He's not a monster in melee but between his skill, Body, and Dodge he can take care of himself, at least.

Demolitionist to follow later.

[Karaden]

Darn, you beat me to a sniper, though mine is an elf, a quick glance shows definitely similarities, though several differences as well. One of the more notable being that mine will actually come with weapons, and she ends up being more general assassin then pure sniper, though she is definitely sniper first and assassin second. Shame I can't get to my books for several hours, oh well.

We're running out of builds quick. Don't think anyone has shown a hacker yet, but that is one of those 'anyone can do it' sort of things I suppose. I won't step on your toes for demolitionist.

Perhaps some kind of mundane mage...

[Mäx]

mundane mage...

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Karaden]

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Yep! And I love being an oxymoron, it's almost as cool as being a real moron (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[ElFenrir]

Oh; I had planned on doing an assassin-type...but again, not a sniper or melee. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that's the nice thing about assassins; they can be about any type you can think of. I was actually going something much different than a sniper or a melee assassin(hell, Sariel, the elf I made, could be a melee assassin. He has the stealth skills and surprise ability and a lot of damage). Assassins can take any form, really. Two snipers(yours and mine), my melee elf who can be one, and my other idea(ill wait to see if it crosses over with yours though-i don't think it will since yours is more sniper based), is a nice bunch.

Will be nice to have a more ranged based one in the group.

Ok, Demolitionist:

[ Spoiler ]

Mari Andersson
Human Female
5'3'', 120 lbs
24 years old
Long, black hair(a bit of purple streaks), blue eyes

Mari, always a curious genius, grew up in a rich family, all corporate oriented and hoped the same for her. Mari wasn't too interested, though. She liked chemistry. To be specific, she liked to make things go boom. With a good education, too much free time and energy, she managed to make some rather like minded friends in college. Word gets around about someone who is good with cooking up explosives, and she ended up being sort of hired to do something...that she didn't *know* she was getting hired for. After worst went to worse, she ended up first on the lam, and then in the shadows. Besides blowing stuff up, she likes cars a lot, and makes a fair getaway driver and can even fix 'em. She is sort of punkish looking; small and lightly build.

+ Qualities:
Exceptional Attribute(Logic)
Tech School Education

- Qualities:
SINner
Sensitive System

Total: 10 Karma paid

Attributes:[309]

Body: 3
Agility: 4
Reaction: 5
Strength: 2
Charisma: 5
Intuition: 5
Logic: 7
Willpower: 5
Edge: 5
Initative: 9/1
Essence: 6

Active Skills:[250]

Demolitions(Plastic Explosives): 6(+2)
Heavy Weapons(Launch Weapons): 3(+2)
Clubs(Stun Baton): 2(+2)
Pistols(Semi-Automatics): 2(+2)
Dodge: 4
Pilot Ground Craft(Wheeled): 3(+2)
Gunnery: 4
Armorer(Grenades): 4(+2)
Etiquette(Street): 3(+2)
Negotation(Bargain): 3(+2)
Infiltration(Urban): 4(+2)
Auto Mechanic: 3
Perception: 3

Knowledge/Language Skills:[91]

Chemistry: 6
Technical Math: 5
Old Cars: 3
Local Area Knowledge: 3
Safehouse Locations: 3
Explosives Design: 3
Speed Metal: 3
Imported Wines: 2

English: N
Japanese: 3
Chinese: 3

Contacts:[42]

Fixer: C5 L3
Chemist: C4 L3
Former Company Man: C3 L3

Resources: 30 Karma worth.

She has 3 Karma left.

Well, since I made my other ones as bigger, tougher characters, I wanted to do a more ''normal'' one physically. But with all of these explosive skills, some car, gunnery, and all kinds of other fun toys, as well as decent social and stealth, she can certainly ''raise the roof'' on the place if needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Also showing you don't have to give a mundane character high-ass physical stats to be cool. Though her stat spread doesn't suck by any stretch of the mind. Her stun baton lets her defend herself in close with a decent die pool, and her Pistols with a smartlink is likewise nice(and, well, a grenade launcher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

[Stahlseele]

Isn't that kind of an oxymoron (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

if you can somehow find out the true name of a free spirit or get some spirit to join a spirit packt with you, it's entirely possible i'd say O.o
there was this alep society which let burned out mages get back some power, i don't see why that should not work for people who never had any magic

[the_real_elwood]

Sure you can make an unaugmented character that's kind of viable, but for a player character, anything you can do with an unaugmented character, an augmented character can do better. Now as far as NPC's go, there's plenty of room for unaugmented characters in the world. Your generic security guards and mall cops aren't going to be cybered up, but that's about the limit of it.

[Karaden]

Sure you can make an unaugmented character that's kind of viable, but for a player character, anything you can do with an unaugmented character, an augmented character can do better. Now as far as NPC's go, there's plenty of room for unaugmented characters in the world. Your generic security guards and mall cops aren't going to be cybered up, but that's about the limit of it.

I'd say the characters made so far are more then kinda viable. Granted an augmented character will be able to beat them out, but think on this. These characters we've made are already on par with your average non-twinked augmented character, now imagine if they did eventually grab a few pieces of 'ware. Also consider the extream level of invisibility unaugmented characters have. They just have to not carry around their illegal equipment and they can go virtually anywhere. Augmented characters however can't just leave their dermal plating at home to help them blend in. Those augmentations act as additional things to be recognised by.

"Yeah, sure I remember him, big elf, cybereyes and ears, plates on his body, and he moved way too fast to be natural."

Ok, so the cops are looking for an elf with cybereyes and ears, dermal plating, and a reflex enhancer. Sure you don't plan on getting caught, but it is just one more thing that helps the cops narrow down the search. Compare to:

"Umm.. yeah.. it was an elf... he was kinda strong looking.."

Ok, so cops are looking for a strong elf..................................................................... ok, so about 1/4th the elf population.

Perhaps a bit exagerated, but my point is there are hidden advantages to not having 'ware.

And of course, if your in a game that plays with essence lose from severe wounds... well that's that many more firefights gone bad that you can survive.

Need to stop slacking on my sniper. She's turning out very well, and an excelent overall assassin.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, I was thinking about different reasons for unaugmented. Again, I have my preference for cybered or magic, but this was more an exercise in something fun.

I might do one more something. I'm sort of leaving a hacker to someone else; they aren't my specialty. I'm actually not superb with all the hacker ins and outs. I can run an NPC hacker ok, but I really don't know all of the little nuances.

Assassins are cool. Most important thing; unseen, fit in, never caught. I find they work best at range(or with magic, of that's the case), or with things like a slow-acting poison and a nice, high Palming skill. Perhaps a thin, hidden needle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The sneak-in, stab in the back and leave suparninjas seem to be popular, but if I a Johnson in SR and hiring one, I don't like the risks involved with them. Luckily the above kind(sniper, poison, etc) can be made very easily without any sort of 'ware. In fact, it's a boon to them to not be noticed. You don't need to be superpowered to sit on a rooftop or slip someone a rather nasty mickey.

[hyzmarca]

When it comes to certain ubiquitous augmentations, not having them can be distinctive and conspicuous. In previous editions, for example, datajacks were so common that not having one would be grands to suspect a person of being either a magician, a hobo, or a samurai with so much hidden delta-grade combat 'ware that be can't afford the essence cost of a datajack without cybermancy. Likewise, having your original eyes is very conspicuous, given the ubiquitousness and fashionableness of cybereyes. No one would that that you were a samurai, certainly, but magician and hobo remain viable assumptions.

[Karaden]

When it comes to certain ubiquitous augmentations, not having them can be distinctive and conspicuous. In previous editions, for example, datajacks were so common that not having one would be grands to suspect a person of being either a magician, a hobo, or a samurai with so much hidden delta-grade combat 'ware that be can't afford the essence cost of a datajack without cybermancy. Likewise, having your original eyes is very conspicuous, given the ubiquitousness and fashionableness of cybereyes. No one would that that you were a samurai, certainly, but magician and hobo remain viable assumptions.

I don't know about that. Sure datajacks where cheap and virtually every runner had them, but they only played a fairly limited role for Joe Wageslave. He used a computer that he actually had to type on with a keyboard (Can you imagine?). As for cybereyes, while it is described as being the most common cyberware sold, it says nothing about how much cyberware is sold overall. I'm sure there are tons of people besides magicians and hobos who don't have cybereyes.

I mean sure, if you have cybereyes you don't have to wear glasses with image link to use your commlink, but alot of people are rather attached to their eyes, and the idea of having the plucked out would be more of a barrier then cost. Personally it would be the cyberware that I would have the most trouble with, because I can't even use contacts I dislike stuff being near my eyes so much (Not that I need them thankfully). So yeah, datajack and cybereyes aren't going to really generate suspicion, but a lack of them sure as hell isn't going to either, as I can assure you that less then 50% of the population has them.

Anyway, all that aside, finally done with my sniper, enjoy.

[ Spoiler ]

A look at the unaugmented Sniper.

Sex: Female
Metarace: Elf
Bod: 4 27
Agi: 7 75
Rea: 5 42
Str: 2 6
Cha: 5 27
Int: 4 27
Log: 5 42
Wil: 5 42
Edge: 6 60
Init: 9

348

Positive Qualities:
Hawk Eyes 10
Restricted Gear 10
Aptitude (Longarms) 20
Blandness 20
Martial Arts, Krav Maga (Take Aim is a Free Action) 10

Negitive Qualities:
Sensitive System -30
Nano Intolerance -10
Prejudiced, Biased against Men -20
Compulsive, Care for Weapons -10

Skills:
Longarms 7 (Sniper Rifles) 60
Pistols 4 (Semi-Automatic) 24
Exotic Melee Weapon (garrote) 4 22
Perception 4 (Visual) 24
Athletics 3 35
Stealth 4 55
Survival 3 14
Influence 3 35
Armorer 4 (Firearms) 24
Forgery 3 14
Locksmith 3 14
Hardware 3 (Maglock) 16

682

Equipment: 137500 55
Barret Model 121 9000
(Silencer)
(Smartgun)
Low Light 100
Thermographic 100
(Folding Bipod)
Advanced Safety System (Biometric) 600
Imaging Scope 300
Vision Magnification 100
Smartlink 500
Flare Compensation 100
Easy Breakdown, Powered 9200
Extream Environment Mod 1 100
Skinlink 50
Improved Range Finder 1000
Plasteel Components 1 40500
Total Cost: 61650

Ares Light Fire /w silencer 350

Walther Secura Kompakt (Smartlinked) 600

Enfield AS-7

Garrote 10
Personalized Grip 100

Wish List:
Monofilament Garrote
SA Puzzler
WW Infiltrator
PSK-3 Collapsible Pistol

10 Karma for contacts

So, there we have it. One compleatly non-cybered sniper. What exactly can she do? Well, she can fire her sniper rifle with 18 dice, treating all ranges as 1 less, and getting a -1 on range penelties. Meaning she can fire at extream range with only a -1 penelty. If she wants she can take the time to aim (Free action) to nix that out compleatly. With a full aim she can get all the way up to 21 dice on a shot, which the target shouldn't get to roll to defend against.

Her rifle can be broken down for easier concealment, and is harder to detect with MAD scanners, it also opperates in extream conditions and can use a skinlink to cut out wireless stuff (THough I don't think it has any and may be quite pointless, the info is fed directly to the scope) Safety system prevents anyone she doesn't want using it.

She also has a verity of other weapons for when she isn't quite so far away from her target, and spesilizes in sneak attacks using the garrote.

She has a vast verity of skills. Besides her weapon skills she has the stealth group to get into places unseen, outdoors so she can handle herself on out of the way places and sitting in a good spot for a long time. Lockpicking and hardware let her infiltrate most places. Especially when she can forge her own passes. Of course talking her way into a place is always an option.

And of course she can take top care of her weapon.

In honesty there are only a small handful of 'wares that would actually help her out. Main one being muscle toner to beef up the agility, and reaction boosters so she can take more aim actions in a combat round.

Edit: Ahahahahaha!! I totally forgot to give her perception (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Edit2:Ok, fixed.

[Fortune]

... as I can assure you that less then 50% of the population has them.

Got a quote ... or indeed anything from canon to back up that assertion?

[ElFenrir]

Hey, I dig the sniper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Definitely awesome at sniping, better at it than my fellow. Mine's a bit, well, tougher being a troll, but that was more for flavor, snipers don't need such toughness. Garrote is always good; you don't need a high Str score to mess someone's day up in one, especially when you roll a lot of dice for a sneak attack and they can't defend. A silenced pistols always works well, too.

Nice to see you gave some classic skills like Forgery and Locksmithing. In a way it kind of matches with an ''organic'' character.

That's a hell of a gun, too. It has like, everything. It looks like it can make toast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)