Lifestyle Issue., A treatise on the street. Options

[WiredWeasel]

Alright, I'm wondering how on or off the grid should a shadowrunner be? Just how unplugged can you be and still function as a decent runner?
I ask because one of the characters in my group wants basically no gear, and is adamant on a street lifestyle. He's the magic oomph in the group and is the Street Shaman.
Okay, on a character background and development level I have no problem with this, my problem is how much will this hinder him, or hinder the game? Am I overthinking this? He may pick up a few magical goods but wants nothing else. He really hates the idea of even a beat-up taped together commlink and would rather have none. He's also taken the computer illiterate neg. quality. He's all magic and spirits, so it could work, but I'm concerned.
So yeah, how hard is it to be a good mage runner and basically be homeless and penniless? Also feel free to openly discuss any weird lifestyle issues your players might have brought up. It's always good to have perspective.

[JeffSz]

It's perfectly acceptable for him to not want to use VR, AR, etc. I ran a game with a character who had no commlink. It can work, if he's adamant. But he's got to give you a REALLY freaking good reason. "I just don't want one" isn't good enough. "I'm going all-magic" isn't good enough. He's got to have an anti-tech religion, like the Amish, or else have a (custom-tailored) strange neg. quality that actually causes electronics to go "fizzle" when he touches them. (this could be a cool quality!)

There's only one major drawback that can railroad everything. Communication.

The other characters will likely be using subvocal mics to talk to each other, or other types of commlink communication. They pass information to each other, including files on the target or schematics of a compound. Chances are they won't always have the opportunity to make hardcopy printouts on soypaper just so he can look at the map too.

He'll be going in blind, without a way to talk to his teammates.

The character in my game ended up getting a crappy commlink when the rest of the party decided he needed one. Chances are the guy's friends would either insist he get something... or work without him.

I suggest you let him try without one. A single missed "we're fragged, get out of there!" text message or, less deadly, a few hours playing where his character is left out 50% of the time because the other characters are chatting on comms... he'll probably go buy one.

[MJBurrage]

As stated above, in a standard city-based campaign he would basically need at least a basic plain-Jane commlink. If the player thinks even that is too matrix-like, point out that it is really just an iPhone. This would let people call him if they are on his do-not-block list, and he could use the screen to look at maps, and messages. A utility could even convert sub-vocal message from others as text, if he does not want an earbud mic.

Now if the campaign is less standard, out of the city stuff, it would be more up to the rest of the team.

The character would be a very cool solo character or contact though (see the very cool Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai for an unusual Street Sam)

[Tarantula]

He could always do the mindlink thing to get around communication issues.

[Karaden]

He could always do the mindlink thing to get around communication issues.

Which is great if he doesn't mind taking the penalty on maintaining a spell, burn karma on a quickened, or spend Nuyen on a focus. Seems like one step forward about 5 steps back if he doesn't want to spend the 100ish nuyen on some crap system but does want to buy a focus (and wouldn't he have to burn karma to bond it?) to use something like that.

Also keep in mind that alot of places require you to broadcast your SIN via a PAN. Since he has no commlink, he has no PAN, thus he can't have fake SINs either.

Think of this guy as the rough equivilent of someone today who doesn't own a cellphone, has no credit card, or drivers license, or bank account, or ID card, or anything but the clothing on his back. Then magnify the problem by the fact that no one accepts hard currency for anything, and that your required to show your ID to every passing police officer.

He'll have difficulty moving around, and he'll be completely out of touch with the rest of the team. No colaboration on planning done via commlinks (most is thanks to nifty ARrows and such to illustrate points). Add on top of this no communicating with the rest of the team during a run unless he shouts and gives away his position, or is standing right next to someone else.

So yes, if he wants to not have a commlink, he is going to have tons and tons of problems. Hell, he might miss out on runs entirely because noone could contact his hermit ass. Street lifestyle means no fixed address, and no commlink means no way to call him. The team going to send up smoke signals every time they need him.


The bottom line is he needs to get a commlink. Even if he has to get the hacker to set it up for him and he can't turn it on without help, he needs to have one. Even a total techno-moron can push the big green button to answer an incoming call, or maybe even have it set up to answer them automatically.

If someone wants to not use tech at all in a world dominated by tech, feel free to make their lives hell.

[Tarantula]

Which is great if he doesn't mind taking the penalty on maintaining a spell, burn karma on a quickened, or spend Nuyen on a focus. Seems like one step forward about 5 steps back if he doesn't want to spend the 100ish nuyen on some crap system but does want to buy a focus (and wouldn't he have to burn karma to bond it?) to use something like that.

If he wants to play a character who doesn't use tech, then yeah, thats what he'd have to do to get around it. Point is, there are ways to get around it.

Also keep in mind that alot of places require you to broadcast your SIN via a PAN. Since he has no commlink, he has no PAN, thus he can't have fake SINs either.

Only if they know you're there. Imp Invis, and other such spells keep you from even showing up.

Think of this guy as the rough equivilent of someone today who doesn't own a cellphone, has no credit card, or drivers license, or bank account, or ID card, or anything but the clothing on his back. Then magnify the problem by the fact that no one accepts hard currency for anything, and that your required to show your ID to every passing police officer.

Except he has an ace in the hole. Magic. Police officer, "I need to see your sin." Mage: *casts influence* "No you don't, I'm fine here."

He'll have difficulty moving around, and he'll be completely out of touch with the rest of the team. No colaboration on planning done via commlinks (most is thanks to nifty ARrows and such to illustrate points). Add on top of this no communicating with the rest of the team during a run unless he shouts and gives away his position, or is standing right next to someone else.

Levitate, imp invis, even shapechange can let mages move around just fine without a commlink. As I said above, mindlink works great for communication during a run, or manifesting. Since you can choose who you manifest to.

So yes, if he wants to not have a commlink, he is going to have tons and tons of problems. Hell, he might miss out on runs entirely because noone could contact his hermit ass. Street lifestyle means no fixed address, and no commlink means no way to call him. The team going to send up smoke signals every time they need him.

I wouldn't say tons and tons of problems. He could have a bound spirit he assigns to someone with "relay messages from him to me via our magical link." Spirit just has to hang out in a closet or something in that guys house. Easy as pie to get a message to the mage.

The bottom line is he needs to get a commlink. Even if he has to get the hacker to set it up for him and he can't turn it on without help, he needs to have one. Even a total techno-moron can push the big green button to answer an incoming call, or maybe even have it set up to answer them automatically.

If someone wants to not use tech at all in a world dominated by tech, feel free to make their lives hell.

No, he doesn't. Magic pretty much wins, and you don't need to have a commlink to get around and be effective. Will it help? Sure. But is it a death sentence? No.

[Karaden]

Well, I never said it was a death sentence, but did you notice how you had to list about 5 spells and the use of a spirit to make up for not having a commlink? I'd say that's making the guy's life hell. Sure, he can get around just fine if he maintains 2-3 spells all the time. The fact that he has no money means not having a means to spend money isn't that big of a deal.

So, is it possible? Sure. Is it going to be a massive pain? Yes. Is it really worth it? Only if you really really really really really really want your character to not have a commlink for some reason. 5 spells and using spirits vs buying an old piece of junk commlink. You decide.

[Tarantula]

Most mages run around with improved invis anyway. Levitate too. As far as having the spirit... the mage could equally just astrally project over to his buddies place, and manifest, and see if theres any work coming up.

Not to mention, the mage could just live in the slums, where there are lots of SINless, and people still take hard currency.

[WiredWeasel]

Thanks guys, part of me just needed to know I was tearing my hair out for no reason, b ut yeah, he's stubborn. Part of it is he doesn't know the game world and almost has an "I don't give a rat's ass about knowing the world, this is what I wanna do." I don't know whether to just sit him down and MAKE him read a little fluff, or try and explain the importance of having a 'link and a fake SIN, or just let him run the gauntlet, trial by fire style, and see how much or a pain in the ass it truly is. I'm afraid he'll get pissy if I do the last saying that I'm singling him out on purpose.
He's dead set on the character being a technophobe, and I don't know how to make it work, or get him to see reason. I know he could make up for a lot of it with spells, but then he's taken a lot of spells just so that he can be a functional member of the team, but will leave less room for other spells to make him a valuable member of the team.

[Tarantula]

sounds like you've tried to explain it to him. Time to just show him. Maybe when he starts getting whiny about you "singling him out" you could point out that he could go out and buy a fake sin and cheapo commlink for 1300 nuyen, and that would solve a lot of his day-to-day hassles.

[WiredWeasel]

You're right, starting to seem like that's the only way to go,sadly.

[Tiger Eyes]

You may also want to point out that neighborhoods Middle Class and above will require him to broadcast a SIN and ID. It's not a police officer asking you at a random stop, it's drones and built in security scanning everything.

Neighborhoods that don't require a SIN are often in areas that have a background count. Street class neighborhoods should almost always have a background count (think Redmond barrens/Puyallup barrens) just from the misery of the folks living there. Shaman generally don't like background counts. Even a level 1 means no watcher spirits. His magic attribute will also be lower. And as for communicating with his team via an astral trip -- well, is he going to leave his body in the cardboard box while he does so? Hmm... that'd be a short-lived character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And a GM is perfectly within his rights to have a spirit summoned in an area of background count use its edge to resist the summoning.

If the team needs to meet a Mr. Johnson at a upscale place, say a club in downtown, he'd need a commlink to broadcast an ID. Chances are the club, or at least the meeting room, will be warded, so no going in astrally with the team while his body stays in the car.

And no chances that if the rest of the team are out getting drinks and an urgent job comes up, he'll be in on it -- are they really going to take the time to go drive to whatever barrens he's living in and search for his box? Or are they going to the meet/job?

Bottom line: if he wants to be a good runner, rather than a ganger living in the barrens, he's going to need a commlink and an ID (not necessarily his own ID).

[Karaden]

Well put tiger.

And as to the fact that most mages get improved invis and levitation and such anyway. Yes, thats true, but they don't generally need to keep those two spells and an additional one up constantly just to function.

I mean sure I could play a quadriplegic mage that levitates everywhere (Would be kinda cool actually) And I could still function. But that would be a constant -2 to everything I do if I don't feel like getting dumped on the ground. So sure, it is possible, and perhaps a drone wheelchair would help. But the end result is that you get a less effective character.

Maybe that isn't the greatest example ever. In fact it is very mild compared to what this guy is trying to do. I say if he is being stubborn about it you let him try it. I'm sure he'll run to the local Stuffer Shack or wherever and pick up some junk commlink by the end of the first game session. Especially when it starts "Sorry, your mage has no way of being contacted and the guys didn't feel like searching for your box, so you don't get to be involved in this mission."

I also like the idea of the mage getting eaten by a devil rat while trying to find out about a mission. edit: Because he is astral projecting from a cardboard box in redmond.

[WiredWeasel]

Thanks again, everybody. I got to sit down and tell him all the points you laid out in here, (many of which I had told him already, but having a large amount of others saying the same helps a ton) and he's starting to understand. He's finally down with the idea of having a crappy commlink and a fake SIN just to get the job done. (The Hacker player in the group said he'd even front the fake SIN and commlink just so he'd have one, but it'd be the Shadowrun equivalent to a Hello Kitty or Pretty Pretty Princess commlink. This made me laugh, since the Shaman is a Fomori and all.)
In his defense, his vision for the character somewhat makes sense. His character purposes has no lifestyle or gear in order to keep him more focused on his magic, kind of like a monk, or some tribal shamen who get rid of worldy attachments to bring them closer to the spirits and the land. It's just his chosen land is the street, his chosen jungle is an urban one. Which is kinda cool, I've always dug the idea of a street shamen who looks at the sprawl as it's own jungle, just of concrete and steel, not wood.
So, we're that much closer to meeting in the middle. Any other good ideas I can put across to him? I don't wnat to have him sacrifice his character concept, but how can we make a good runner without losing the gritty street level mage idea? Maybe convince him to ask WWTDD (What would Tyler Durden Do?) and make a Tyler Durdenesque Character, but with magic and spirits? I dunno...whattaya think?

[Karaden]

And just as a shaman who is in a real jungle needs a good set of warm clothing (thinking fur cape or something) and a decent shelter, a shaman in an urban jungle needs a commlink.

Just as a hunter needs a bow and arrow for his quarry, a runner needs a gun for his victims.

Just as a rabbit needs its hole, a runner needs his safehouse.

So yeah, if he thinks of the urban landscape as his 'environment' he has to realize that it is innately different from a forest and that it requires different 'basic necessities' to survive, a commlink being one of these necessities.

[Fuchs]

A mage with improved invisibility and no technological means to make sure his team mates can see him (signal locator, etc.) would face a lot of danger from friendly fire in my game. Also, if magic is rare, then all those spells and spirits will draw a lot of attention, and the astral signature would need to be amsked all the time, everywhere. If magic is not that rare, then the odds of an influence on a cop getting detected by an astrally capable opponent are bigger.

[Tarantula]

A mage with improved invisibility and no technological means to make sure his team mates can see him (signal locator, etc.) would face a lot of danger from friendly fire in my game. Also, if magic is rare, then all those spells and spirits will draw a lot of attention, and the astral signature would need to be amsked all the time, everywhere. If magic is not that rare, then the odds of an influence on a cop getting detected by an astrally capable opponent are bigger.

Really? Cause generally invis mages just hide behind cover and throw spells. They don't usually make a habit of prancing about inbetween their teammates and targets.

Oh, as far as getting caught? It takes a few combat turns to erase a signature. Throw a force 3influence on the cop, then spend 9 seconds as you say have a nice day and whatnot to erase the sig. Or just 3 seconds if you have astral chameleon.

[dog_xinu]

my first sr character was a decker (yeah old school) that lived on the street. One thing he had was a darn good commlink (back then it was phones). Otherwise how would he work with his team? get jobs? get a call when the lastest head'wares came in so he could scoop it up? He lived the street lifestyle (slightly modded) until I retired him (~200karma). The only difference from 0karma and 100karma was he bought a used MPUV (think hummer) that he converted into his stash house/mobile home/hack-the-code-room/etc. He would park it in the dingiest of street corners and live in it. Well until his team refused to let him do that anymore and he would park it in one of their driveways (taking turns on who got him).

so living on the street doesnt mean you dont have a phone (err commlink).

The homeless guy that lives in the trees over by the onramp to the highway near my house has a "go fone" cellphone. Dont know who he calls but even he has one. I know he has minutes on it (at least a few) since he called the local waffle house to place a togo order (must have been a good day panhandling).

If the player is feels strongly about not having one, dont make them have one. But when you call the team, just look at them and say "oops.. nevermind they cant call you.." then turn your head to the next person. And the players will do similar things.

EDIT: added the below lines..

now true could do spells/spirits/etc to do communication. But under most instances it would be convenient or easy. I dont tell my players you get 9.2 days off until the next run. I just start asking them about what they are doing then surprise the run on them when they work their downtime up to the designated time. Now how will he know when to get back in contact? When the fixer calls about a job with a johnson, I generally only give a couple hours til the meet (sometimes less than a hour). Which gives the team enough time to call each other, grab their "meet with johnson gear" and to the meet. If I am nice they have time to stake the place out for ~30 minutes prior to meet. I never call on tuesday for a meet on friday.

do whatever you feel is best..

remember this is a game that we all are trying to have fun at.

[Fuchs]

Really? Cause generally invis mages just hide behind cover and throw spells. They don't usually make a habit of prancing about inbetween their teammates and targets.

Oh, as far as getting caught? It takes a few combat turns to erase a signature. Throw a force 3influence on the cop, then spend 9 seconds as you say have a nice day and whatnot to erase the sig. Or just 3 seconds if you have astral chameleon.

Yes, really. The mages might not want to make a habit out of prancing between enemies and allies, but no one usually tells the enemies not to change their positions, and in a moving battle - which most of our battles are, if you get pinned down as a runner you're generally dead/caught since the opposition has more firepower on the way - you can't always take cover. Or you take cover, invisible, and get flattened because the troll dove for that same cover too. Or you get caught in some grenade attack, or by a drone laying down suppressive fire.
The idea that you can effectively work with an invisible team mate without knowing where he is, for any length of time, in a moving battle without running into problems or friendly fire seems rather strange.

Re: Magic as replacement SIN: Magic is not that hard to spot. Every cast you do runs a risk of getting spotted - and you can count on it being recorded as well. Also, nine seconds is a rather large amount of time to spend on a cop after throwing an influence on him (and his partner). Not to mention that anyone on overhead watch might find something suspicious if a patrol gets "hand waved" by a suspicious looking person. At least anyone with half a brain would think it suspsicious that sensors report a missing SIN broadcast, yet the patrol lets it slide - especially if coupled with the usualy attire and smell of a street life style in such areas where broadcasting SINs is needed.

[Tarantula]

Yes, really. The mages might not want to make a habit out of prancing between enemies and allies, but no one usually tells the enemies not to change their positions, and in a moving battle - which most of our battles are, if you get pinned down as a runner you're generally dead/caught since the opposition has more firepower on the way - you can't always take cover. Or you take cover, invisible, and get flattened because the troll dove for that same cover too. Or you get caught in some grenade attack, or by a drone laying down suppressive fire.
The idea that you can effectively work with an invisible team mate without knowing where he is, for any length of time, in a moving battle without running into problems or friendly fire seems rather strange.

And, if the mage is smart, he'll continue to move around so that he stays out of the way of friendly fire. Or away from cover that big troll is heading for.
Having cover generally would keep you safe from grenades, as long as no one else is in the same area. And cover protects entirely from suppressive fire.
Not ot mention, I did say levitate also. How many guys make habits of shooting at the ceiling in your combats?

Re: Magic as replacement SIN: Magic is not that hard to spot. Every cast you do runs a risk of getting spotted - and you can count on it being recorded as well. Also, nine seconds is a rather large amount of time to spend on a cop after throwing an influence on him (and his partner). Not to mention that anyone on overhead watch might find something suspicious if a patrol gets "hand waved" by a suspicious looking person. At least anyone with half a brain would think it suspsicious that sensors report a missing SIN broadcast, yet the patrol lets it slide - especially if coupled with the usualy attire and smell of a street life style in such areas where broadcasting SINs is needed.

Getting spotted? You mean by random people hanging around? Or by magical police?

Record what? That you looked at the police guy funny? Sure, overhead watch might think it suspicious. Which might get the cops busted. Cause as far as the cops know (unless they resist it), is it was their own idea.

And, imp invis prevents the mage from being stopped at all.

[Fuchs]

And, if the mage is smart, he'll continue to move around so that he stays out of the way of friendly fire. Or away from cover that big troll is heading for.
Having cover generally would keep you safe from grenades, as long as no one else is in the same area. And cover protects entirely from suppressive fire.
Not ot mention, I did say levitate also. How many guys make habits of shooting at the ceiling in your combats?


Getting spotted? You mean by random people hanging around? Or by magical police?

Record what? That you looked at the police guy funny? Sure, overhead watch might think it suspicious. Which might get the cops busted. Cause as far as the cops know (unless they resist it), is it was their own idea.

And, imp invis prevents the mage from being stopped at all.

You're rather soft with your mages if the mage can react faster than the troll samurai diving for new cover when his old cover is turning into a grenade landing zone, and get out of the way of the troll in time. Or if a few drones fly past, to shoot at the runners from behind, to dodge the troll's fire at the drones (or the riccochets) heading his way? And if he also can always keep up with the team, and keep in contact with them through more magic. And tell them when he needs help, and where. And of course if the group doesn't get attacked, ever, by either invisible, concealed, or ruthenium-polymer using foes, which would make the group use alternate means of detection - like spatial recognisers, whcih would no differ between the foes and the mage.
I try to imagine a team moving with a member they cannot see, and I can only come up with a recipe for disaster for many occasions. At the very least it'll slow them down, sicne they need to make sure the mage is with them before moving on each time - or risk leaving the mage behind by accident. And don't get me started on possible trouble with a stunned mage, still invisible thanks to his focus, and the team searching for the guy... under fire...

Also, if you're overhead watch doesn't immediately think "magic" when a poster boy for "suspect" (non-broadcasting, not-corp-looking) is not getting checked by a patrol, but instead get let through, then your NPCs don't have much sense.

Moving around invisible doesn't work with wards, and will attract a lot of attention from astral patrols - and anyone with sensors not fooled by it, like a dog's nose.

In my campaign, magic simply is not the be all end all - because my NPCs know that magic exists, and have taken appropriate counter measures in many cases.

[Tarantula]

You're rather soft with your mages if the mage can react faster than the troll samurai diving for new cover when his old cover is turning into a grenade landing zone, and get out of the way of the troll in time. Or if a few drones fly past, to shoot at the runners from behind, to dodge the troll's fire at the drones (or the riccochets) heading his way? And if he also can always keep up with the team, and keep in contact with them through more magic. And tell them when he needs help, and where. And of course if the group doesn't get attacked, ever, by either invisible, concealed, or ruthenium-polymer using foes, which would make the group use alternate means of detection - like spatial recognisers, whcih would no differ between the foes and the mage.
I try to imagine a team moving with a member they cannot see, and I can only come up with a recipe for disaster for many occasions. At the very least it'll slow them down, sicne they need to make sure the mage is with them before moving on each time - or risk leaving the mage behind by accident. And don't get me started on possible trouble with a stunned mage, still invisible thanks to his focus, and the team searching for the guy... under fire...

First, there is no damage from a troll running over to where you are to take cover. I'm pretty sure it'd be very easy to use 1 meter of your movement for the turn, to take a step so he doesn't land on you. Though, even if he does, it doesn't cause damage.

Also, if you're overhead watch doesn't immediately think "magic" when a poster boy for "suspect" (non-broadcasting, not-corp-looking) is not getting checked by a patrol, but instead get let through, then your NPCs don't have much sense.

Even when the cop says "Oh, that was my sisters kid, he forgot his link at home again. Needs to stop going to the barrens to show how 'cool' he is." Cause you could influence him that way instead.

Moving around invisible doesn't work with wards, and will attract a lot of attention from astral patrols - and anyone with sensors not fooled by it, like a dog's nose.

Masking is your friend. And so is physical mask. Since I dn't know how a dog reacts when he smells something but doesn't see it, I can only assume at the worst, he'd start sniffing the trail and follow the mage. Oh, wait, the mage is levitating up near the ceiling. Good luck.

In my campaign, magic simply is not the be all end all - because my NPCs know that magic exists, and have taken appropriate counter measures in many cases.

I'm curious, what would your "overwatch" do if the cop said that? Go, "no, its not your sisters kid, you've been tricked fool, go nab him". Then find out the kid actually was his kid? Or the mage could do an influence that hes an undercover cop, and the one stopping him has worked with him before. What would happen then?

[Fuchs]

In my campaign, any such answer would be easily checked by overwatch. "Oh, he doesn't have a sister?"/"Is fresh from the academy and with his first partner? Has never worked with an undercover cop?"/"the kid is actualyl at school right now?" *orders hovering drones to start sniping the magical attacker*.
That's just a consequence by the fact that magic exists, and that such spells exist - I consider my NPCs having adapted her protocols and systems to those threats. And many of my NPCs are afraid of getting mind raped, or otherwise magically assaulted. And of course dogs would generally be trained to bark at invisible people - and people know enough to react to it.

Would such stuff come up everytime? No, but enough of the time to make sure that just as a team needs a mage to succeed, a team can't succeed with just magic. Certainly not in a high-security zone.

And none of my players would assume that you'd not take any damage from 400 kg of troll landing on you.

[Tarantula]

How would you train a dog to bark at an invisible person? They'd bark everytime they smelled a persons trail but couldn't see them.

So, how do cops ever take a bribe if they have that level of overwatch? I really doubt theres a dedicated guy to every cop to fact check everything the cop or his subjects say.

How expansive is your overwatch?

[Fuchs]

In my campaign, that kind of overwatch is limited to high security areas, not the average districts. The kind of areas where you are expected to be broadcasting a SIN. And where the bribes come from the "upstanding" citizens. And I expect that Overwatch would switch attention to the Cops calling in a "check of no SIN broadcast" just to watch out for those kind of trouble - they won't monitor cops all the time. But in a high-security zone, there won't be too many non-SIN-broadcasting people anyway.