Sensor Capacity for Micro/Medium Drones, is there errata for this, or did I just miss it? Options

[Heath Robinson]

Tarantula,
Sensor tests aren't applicable here since we're using only a single, unrated sensor out of the package and the rules given in Arsenal override the normal drone perception rules for this purpose. Still, the chances of it succeeding are pathetic.

My thoughts exactly. Why spend the money for a drone when it's easier (and cheaper) to buy a dozen microcams, climb a few fire escapes, and plant them under the eaves facing all the target building's known entrances? If you want a drone for backup, or to follow the target when he leaves, then just hide a recon drone on one of the roofs and set it to power up when the cameras detect their target.

Try climbing a few fire escapes to put cameras up in real life. I'm not paying your bail.

[Tachi]

Try climbing a few fire escapes to put cameras up in real life. I'm not paying your bail.

I work as security. Can you guess who installed the new camera system under our eaves to monitor the front and back parking lots? I'll give you a hint: My boss is cheap, so, many of us here do multi-duty. Besides, most fire escapes where I've lived were in the alleys. The chances of being spotted by anyone but the homeless or drug dealers are slim if you're quiet and do it at night. Which just kinda makes sense don't it? Wanna be sneaky? Do it at night, when you'll be harder to see. Oh, and I used to climb fire escapes up to my buddy's 6th floor apartment 10-20 times per week cuz his landlord was a dick, and always tired to interrogate anyone he saw in his building.

I understand your point, it's just that I live almost entirely at night (RL Allergy: Mild-sunlight) and I'm very sneaky. For me it doesn't seem the least bit difficult. Nor would it be difficult for the average shadowrunner, IMAO.

[Tarantula]

Tarantula,
Sensor tests aren't applicable here since we're using only a single, unrated sensor out of the package and the rules given in Arsenal override the normal drone perception rules for this purpose. Still, the chances of it succeeding are pathetic.

No, its is entirely applicable. What rules in arsenal override using the sensor? If you're talking about these rules, Arse, 105, "Each vehicle and drone has a Sensor rating that acts as an abstract composite of all of the sensors in the vehicle combined. This Sensor rating should be used for most situations.
Under certain circumstances, a gamemaster may decide that certain vehicle sensors may not apply, or that only one specific type of sensor is relevant to the situation at hand. Some sensors might just not be suitable for the given task, may be pointing into the wrong direction, and so on. In this case, consider the applicable sensor to have the same rating as the vehicle’s Sensor rating. If the character has previously modified the sensor package, individual sensors may have their own ratings, as appropriate. Likewise, a gamemaster can always rule that certain individual sensor components have a lesser or higher rating than the overall sensor package."

Far as I can tell, it says if you're using a single sensor, it has a rating of the sensor level for the vehicle, unless it has been otherwise modified. Since last I checked cameras didn't have ratings, then it will still use the sensor rating of the drone. Which is 1.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Per Synner, cameras and microphones will have ratings with the next main book errata.

[Tarantula]

In which case the camera's rating would be used. I can't imagine a micro camera would get higher than a 1 base though. Guess we'll see with the errata.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

As rating isn't limited by sensor package size, nor factored into capacity for any other sensor, I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be a rating 6 micro camera. In fact, each point rating will, per Synner, allow the camera to have one enhancement.

[Tarantula]

All depends on how it comes out. I could definitely see a rating 6 camera taking up an extra capacity.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

A rating 6 radar sensor doesn't.

[Heath Robinson]

No, its is entirely applicable. What rules in arsenal override using the sensor?

Facial Recognition: This software is used to identify or verify someone’s still photo, video, or trideo image. <snip /> In either case, use its rating for the Perception Test

The Drone itself is not detecting the target, the software is analysing the image data from a camera and makes a Perception Test to do so. I repeat, the Drone is not making a Sensor test to detect the target, the software running on its node is using its rules which involve making a Perception Test.

I concede that Image Mag does not allow you to ignore the distance penalties to Perception tests by RAW, but I believe that any reasonable GM would waive some or all of the penalties. You could also apply the +3 "actively looking/listening for it" modifier if it's set to match a particular face which would make it no worse than the Drone itself even if you apply the same -5 in penalties from range (assuming you don't add any vision enhancement to the camera).

[Tarantula]

Perception test to tell if the person is that specific one or not. It does not replace the test to see the person in the first place.

If the drone is not looking for the person, then it would not get the bonus. Arguably, a sensor test is not a perception test, so those modifiers do not apply, as there are specific signature modifiers that apply to sensor tests.

[Heath Robinson]

Perception test to tell if the person is that specific one or not. It does not replace the test to see the person in the first place.

So, you mean to say there's actually no point to using a camera subscribed by a commlink with Facial Recognition software because there's no Sensor attribute and, therefore, the camera automatically fails the Sensor Test to locate the person?

[Tarantula]

Commlinks aren't a drone, and don't follow drone rules for sensor tests.

[Heath Robinson]

Facial Recognition software isn't a Drone either.

[Tarantula]

Yes, but since the thread was discussing using a drone with a camera to use the software, the drone has to see the person in order to use the software. If you just had a static camera, you'd be fine.

[Heath Robinson]

You can order the Drone to ensure its camera is fixed on a particular position, effectively turning it into a static camera. I assumed it would be one of the orders you'd give to a Drone you're using for surveillance. I mean, that's pretty basic; if you're going to watch a single place for a long period of time you don't want your camera turning away from the place you're trying to watch. It's just common sense.

More reasons to use a Drone over a static camera: you don't need to manually reorient it if it's positioned badly or gets knocked out of alignment, it's less limited by the need for convenient surfaces, it's quite a bit more stable due to active compensation for forces.

[Tarantula]

And, yet, drones get stuck using the sensor rules, which means -3 for signature, and the target is highly likely to slip by without you noticing him. It'd be better to use a drone to and deploy/maintain microcameras.

Just because your drone is not moving, does not mean it is not a drone.

[Heath Robinson]

Okay, so if you wanted to run a video you'd previously recorded from a Drone's camera through FR software, the Drone would need to make a Sensor test for each person in the video? Alternatively, if the Rigger was just watching the camera footage from a drone and wanted to identify a person they saw in the video using their own knowledge, would you make the Drone roll a Sensor test even if the person is already in-shot?

[Tarantula]

If the drone fails its sensor test, the person isn't in the shot.

[Heath Robinson]

A Sensor Test exists to represent the Pilot program identifying signatures using an abstracted measure of its sensor quality. Why should we make a Sensor Test to determine if a person was in shot of a recorded video? That is the kind of thing a GM should just decide on their own.

There's no reason for the Drone to make a Sensor Test when it is being told to assume a particular position for an undefined period of time. That position can be set to ensure that the camera we're using for our FRsoft is pointing in a particular direction. It's completely coincidental, but it suits our purposes. At this point the Drone can proceed to physically lock all its moving parts for all we care. The FRsoft then does the equivalent of sitting in a darkened room watching a big screen and watches for a particular face; it pops a message back to the rigger when it spots that face on the screen.

[Tarantula]

Its the GM call to handwave away the sensor test. By RAW, the drone has to pass it to record the person.

[Heath Robinson]

By RAW, the drone has to pass it to record the person.

To detect a person

You don't have to detect a person to record them.

[Tarantula]

If you do not detect the person with the sensor, you do not see them with it. Your only sensor is a camera. Therefore, if you do not detect them with your sensor, you cannot record them with the camera.

[Heath Robinson]

To detect a person, critter, or vehicle with sensors, the character/vehicle must make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Clearsight in the case of drones).

No mention of the particular sensors that were used to record the data that was analysed in the attempt to detect person, critter or vehicle. The person, critter or vehicle may have been recorded by the camera; they may not be detected by the Drone (ie it remains oblivious) but they could still be included in the camera footage (GM fiat either way). That camera footage is then passed to another person/piece of software. It can still contain a recorded image of the person because it's not related to the understanding of the world that the Drone possessed, the camera is not beholden to the Drone with regards to what it records.

Another way of looking at it is; if you fail a Perception test to notice someone but you have an Eye Recording Unit, does that mean that a person reviewing the material will never be able to spot the person? Does a photographer have to be aware of the lion sneaking up behind the zebra he's photographing in order for it to appear on film?

[Tarantula]

GM call in all cases. By RAW, if you fail the perception test, you don't see it, so no, it wouldn't be recorded.

[Heath Robinson]

No, by RAW if the Drone fails the Sensor Test then it, and it alone, fails to detect the person. We're not talking about the damn Drone spotting the person. Look, the Drone's sensor package is a separate entity; it has an independant existance proven by the fact that we can take it out and walk around with it and there are rules for that.

What we do is we subscribe the Drone to its own package and tell the FRsoft to run its analysis on the subscribed sensor package, bypassing the Drone entirely and its Sensor Test. The Drone doesn't need to make its Sensor Test because we're using the Camera in its sensor package exactly as if it were a standalone camera.