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> Greek/Mongol/etc Wrestling & Sumai, Adapting to CC martial arts
Austere Emancipa...
post Dec 31 2003, 03:43 PM
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Wrestling
to contend by grappling with and striving to trip or throw an opponent down or off balance
to engage in or as if in a violent or determined struggle
Advantages: Halves TN penalty from the Subduing Combat option, +2 dice when using Knockdown Attack or Subduing Combat options or Sweep or Throw maneuvers.
Disadvantages: -2 dice when using standard melee attacks, the Called Shot, Disarm or Multiple Targets options.
Maneuvers: Close Combat, Disorient, Ground Fighting, Sweep, Throw, Zoning

Yes, that's only 6 maneuvers when canon martial arts all have ~7-9, but there really aren't others that look anything like wrestling.

This from a guy who has never wrestled, and only seen a few minutes worth of Greco-Roman wrestling on TV.

Oh and if you don't consider wrestling a martial art, just call it "Combat Wrestling", closer to what Greco-Roman wrestling must have been like closer to its inception. I dunno if such things exist already, but they might. Anyway, Ninjutsu is SR canon and it's a make-believe martial art (more or less).

QUOTE (Pavlov)
[...] I know an old Estonian guy who can rip me apart with Sambo and I don't want to get on his bad side.

Sambo is already a canon SR martial art, using the same stats as Aikido and Jujitsu. Cannon Companion, p. 88.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Dec 31 2003, 04:00 PM
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Tziluthi
post Dec 31 2003, 04:00 PM
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Hey, did anyone catch the commentary by H.G. and Roy for the greco-roman wrestling in the 2000 Sydney Olympics, complete with Barry White soundtrack?
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Fortune
post Dec 31 2003, 11:13 PM
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QUOTE (Tziluthi)
Hey, did anyone catch the commentary by H.G. and Roy for the greco-roman wrestling in the 2000 Sydney Olympics, complete with Barry White soundtrack?

Yep. Almost as good as their gymnastics coverage. ;)

Sambo is not Greco-Roman wrestling! :P :)
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Siege
post Dec 31 2003, 11:16 PM
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Very true -- I would imagine Greco Roman wrestling back in the day would have been quite different.

and Fortune is absolutely right -- it's not wrestling. It is a military unarmed combat form for the express intent of inflicting injury and/or restraining unwilling subjects, not as a competitive sport.

I'll refrain from commenting on effectiveness.

-Siege
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Saintgrimm
post Dec 31 2003, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE
Oh and if you don't consider wrestling a martial art, just call it "Combat Wrestling", closer to what Greco-Roman wrestling must have been like closer to its inception. I dunno if such things exist already, but they might. Anyway, Ninjutsu is SR canon and it's a make-believe martial art (more or less).


Correct in that. Greco-Roman wrestling was applied to combat. And thought the aplications are largely for submission type combat, there were other uses.

Here are a couple references from various sources.

From an Encyclopedia on Martial Arts:
QUOTE
Martial arts may include disciplines of striking (i.e. Boxing, Karate), kicking, (Kickboxing, Karate), grappling (Judo, Jujutsu, Wrestling), weaponry (Iaido, Kendo, Kenjutsu, Naginata-do, Jojutsu, Fencing), or some combination of those three (many types of Jujutsu).


Here are some excerpts from a Historical review of Greco-Roman wrestling(The link is here - Historical Review:
QUOTE
Wrestling first appeared in the primitive community period. It originated as one of the basic means of struggle for existence waged by primitive humans. Human had to fight for every piece of land, river or lake that he fancied, a bird he fowled, or an animal that he killed. Later this struggle lost its narrow utilitarian orientation and transformed into a set of sensible technical actions, a specific means of physical training.

Wrestling became widespread in the slave-owning period. This fact is confirmed by numerous monuments of that era, for example, famous Egyptian tomb in BeniGassan settlement (2600 BC) which walls are covered with depictions of different wrestling techniques.

Wrestling experienced its true development in ancient Greece. It was used to bring up a strong, deft, enduring and determined man. Wrestling was a component of the child, youth and adult physical training system. Many famous philosophers and poets, statesmen and military leaders of ancient Greece were eminent wrestlers in their time - participants and winners of the Olympian competitions (Milon of Crotona, Pythagoras, Platon, Pindar, Alkinad, etc).

And
QUOTE
In Russia wrestling emerged a long time ago. According to historical chronicles wrestling was widespread in Russia as early as in the 10"' century AC. Owing to historical conditions, Russians had to wage fre­quent wars with foreign invaders. These battles involve a one-on-one fighting which outcome depended mainly on the fighter's strength, deftness, powers of endurance, fearlessness - these are integral wrestling qualities.


Also, as a point of reference, when the Olympics began, they were just races. The first was a race of 200 yards, and was won by a cook. Wrestling, Boxing, Javelin throwing were all introduced when the Spartans began to join. The Spartans, who did use all of these in war, felt that the olympics should be won by the best soldiers and warriors.

In addition, the Incas used wrestling as an art of war. Another excerpt:
QUOTE
The candidates were required to show their prowess in the athletic exercises of the warrior; in wrestling and boxing, in running such long courses as fully tried their agility and strength, in severe fasts of several days' duration, and in mimic combats, which, although the weapons were blunted, were always attended with wounds, and sometimes with death.


So, basically, just trying to say that yes, Wrestling is a martial art. Yes, it is possible to subdue, but also to injure and/or kill with it. I was a collegiate level wrestler myself. It's hard on the body, and may be a sport today. But it is no less deadly, especially considering that it combines flexability with strength... strength enough to break bones, or hemorrage an organ.

Just my 3.25 cents.
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