After Nagra's Troll Strength thread last night, I decided to make a Cyclops wrestler charactor. After all the Attributes were done, I was stumped by the fact that there weren't any wrestling type martial arts in CC and I was loath to use Brawling. So I decided to see if anyone had any ideas on wrestling martial arts.

Well, considering Wrestling is in no way, shape, or form a martial art, I think that sums it up.

Now, do you mean high school wrestling or "holy shit that's so fake" TV wrestling?

In the case of the former, it would be Athletics (Wrestling). In the case of the latter, it would be Performance (Acting) with a bit of Athletics (Wrestling) thrown in.

Now don't any of you start whining about how Athletics (Wrestling) isn't applicable. It is, because you can specialize into a sport, as per canon rules.

You know who I'm talking to. *Glare of Doom™*

I say create a couple maneuvers to simulate holds and locks, and make it a style.

It depends what you want to do. AFAIK Wrestling isn't the most useful combat technique as in-general there are rules against kneeing in the goolies. In other games I have played the wrestling combat maneuvers allowed you to perform locks, choke-holds, throws, joint dislocating techniques, stunning techniques ETC. I'f you actually want to fight using it then I'd go for a martial art with maneuvers such as throw, disorient, sweep, ground fighting(?), disorient, close combat, and maybe a few home-grown ones like dislocate, lock, and nerve strkes (which I'll leave to your imagination).

I would also give the character Athletics(Wrestling) to reflect the training and honing his body has been through. It wouldn't help you to hit someone per-se but you would probably be less fatigued because of it (hence have lower TNs).

I'm going to hold with my statement that wrestling is not, in fact, a martial art. However, just to be (somewhat) nice...

Take the rules for jujitsu and take out the "Ha! Now I've got you where you want me!"

Would you class Broadsword and shield a martial art? Martial arts may cover a broader category of subjects than you think.

Different ideaology to me.

Or maybe I'm just being led astray by the media and TV wrestling. If that is so, sorry, but that's just how I view it.

I don't know, grappling/wrestling works pretty well on most people.

Throw in a headbutt or punch or two and you're set.

But now we're back to brawling.

There are more effective means of making war than sprinting and wrestling.

Heh. In SLA indistries the dislocate maneuver is about the most deadly in the game. You call a shot at a limb and if you hit (and they are lightly-armoured enough) the limb is dislocated. Calling a shot to the head is a bit harder than other called shots in the system but it's definately a quick way to take someone down.

Anyway: Yes Wrestling is primarily a sport but you could easily take the concepts (grappling combat) and turn it into an effective martial art.

For more details of the martial art: I think you'd get a bonus die or so when fighting using the close combat maneuver but -2 dice if the opponent is armed with a (sharp?) melee weapon. Sound OK?

I wouldn't throw that melee weapon thing in. I could lock your arm pretty damn fast and I'm not even that good. Someone who can really wrestle can turn you immobile inside of a second and you're not too sure how. That makes your knife...ah...useless.

Just to whip the dead horse a little more:

Sports can be used for martial application with creative and motivated participants, but if the initial intent isn't combative in nature, I don't classify it as a martial art.

By that definition, boxing, judo, greco-roman wrestling, muay thai don't get classified as "martial arts" although a fair number of people would energetically disagree with me.

So I suppose I should have prefaced this entire exchange with, "In My Humble Opinion".

Oh and as for the Marathon runner -- he may have died, but he got the job done.

-Siege

If he died right after stopping, that must mean he was one of the first Adepts! Pain Resistance gaesed to running. He stopped, his body went "Oh no! Deadly damage!" and promptly cacked.

In all honesty I think a good free-style wrestler will beat a good puncher/kicker just about every time. Just an opinion. To build a set of wrestling Martial arts, take a look at brawling and it's associated techniques. Make some changes to the maneuver lists to reflect style differences, Greco-Roman vs. Sumo will be different after all. Voila your done. Game wise, I don't know that it makes much of a difference. Greco-Roman is probably going to be more useful/adaptable to Shadowrun than sumo though. Imagine going on a run with a 600 lb human who needs a stick or helpers to wash himself and while proficient at laying people flat, has a hard time getting through doors...

I've trained in a few "classic" martial arts (no claims of expertise here) and I would absolutely consider wrestling to be a martial art. If for no other reason that I know an old Estonian guy who can rip me apart with Sambo and I don't want to get on his bad side. Sure, TV catch-as-catch-can wrestling isn't going to be effective but freestyle, Sambo, and even Greco-Roman (with a little tweak here and there) could be very effective in one-on-one encounters. Some statistic I read noted that a high percentage of fights end up on the ground (yes, that means to some of you that most people can't fight) and in those situations, wrestling is pretty damn useful.

Wrestling
to contend by grappling with and striving to trip or throw an opponent down or off balance
to engage in or as if in a violent or determined struggle
Advantages: Halves TN penalty from the Subduing Combat option, +2 dice when using Knockdown Attack or Subduing Combat options or Sweep or Throw maneuvers.
Disadvantages: -2 dice when using standard melee attacks, the Called Shot, Disarm or Multiple Targets options.
Maneuvers: Close Combat, Disorient, Ground Fighting, Sweep, Throw, Zoning

Yes, that's only 6 maneuvers when canon martial arts all have ~7-9, but there really aren't others that look anything like wrestling.

This from a guy who has never wrestled, and only seen a few minutes worth of Greco-Roman wrestling on TV.

Oh and if you don't consider wrestling a martial art, just call it "Combat Wrestling", closer to what Greco-Roman wrestling must have been like closer to its inception. I dunno if such things exist already, but they might. Anyway, Ninjutsu is SR canon and it's a make-believe martial art (more or less).

Hey, did anyone catch the commentary by H.G. and Roy for the greco-roman wrestling in the 2000 Sydney Olympics, complete with Barry White soundtrack?

Very true -- I would imagine Greco Roman wrestling back in the day would have been quite different.

and Fortune is absolutely right -- it's not wrestling. It is a military unarmed combat form for the express intent of inflicting injury and/or restraining unwilling subjects, not as a competitive sport.

I'll refrain from commenting on effectiveness.

-Siege