Newbie mage/cyberware creation questions Options

[Gnaeus]

I'm new to 4th ed, making a mage, and had some questions on how the cyberware/essence/magic interaction works at character creation.

Harold Hermetic is a new mage. He has 1 essence point of cyberware (brain booster, datajack). Therefore he has essence 5.

Does he spend 65 points for magic 6, -1 which becomes magic 5?

Or

Does he spend 55 points for magic 5, because it is his maximum?

Or

Does he spend 40 points for magic 5, because 6 was his normal maximum?

Does taking a 5 magic count as his one attribute which can be maxed at character creation?

Thanks for the help!

[KCKitsune]

Gnaeus, unfortunately, by most people interpretations of Rules As Written (RAW), you would have to pay 65 points for your magic 6 (5). It seems stupid to me, but that's how it's suppose to work.

[pbangarth]

To end up with 5 Magic after having spent an Essence on implants, Harold would have had to buy Magic 6, at a cost of 65 BP.

The 'one Attribute at max' rule applies to the regular Attributes, 4 physical and 4 mental. So Harold could do the above with his Magic and also have one of his regular Attributes at 6.

Peter

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

1st option, unless your game houserules it.

Yes, this means he's paying for a point he doesn't get. That's the trade-off for getting bio/cyber.

Does it count as his one maxed attribute? Probably not - it's a special attribute in that it doesn't come from the (half-total-bp max) cap as the standard attributes. Of course, the one-attribute-maxed rule is more of a don't-gimp-yourself rule, so it's still good advice.

He's probably better off just raising magic to 5 (40 bp) and letting it drop to 4, though.

[Tyro]

IIRC lowered essence doesn't lower your actual magic attribute, but your effective magic attribute. So if you have 5 magic lowered to 4 and want to raise it to 5 using karma (you can raise Magic up to 6 with Karma, you only have to initiate to get above that) you're paying for raising it to 6. If you have 6 magic lowered to 5, you have to initiate as you can't raise it any higher with Karma.

[Stahlseele]

this rule automatically means that everyone with the latent awakening can't use any cyber or bio unless he has initiated and raised his/her magic level at least once, because they will burn out immediately after awakening . . if they wake up at all . .

[Doc Byte]

IIRC lowered essence doesn't lower your actual magic attribute, but your effective magic attribute. So if you have 5 magic lowered to 4 and want to raise it to 5 using karma (you can raise Magic up to 6 with Karma, you only have to initiate to get above that) you're paying for raising it to 6. If you have 6 magic lowered to 5, you have to initiate as you can't raise it any higher with Karma.

There is not "effective magic attribute". If you lose a point of Essence your Magic attribute and Magic maximum is reduced by one. (p.164, SR4)

[Fortune]

this rule automatically means that everyone with the latent awakening can't use any cyber or bio unless he has initiated and raised his/her magic level at least once, because they will burn out immediately after awakening . . if they wake up at all . .

Which is why I am still waiting for a quote (from the other thread) that specifically states that the 'lost' Magic point is paid for in BP at chargen.

[Stahlseele]

ok, i somehow again and again overread the latent awakening clearly stating, that even if your essence is lower than 6 you get one point of magic . . only if your essence is below 1 you burn out immidiately . .
somehow i had set it in my mind, that with your maximum of magic and actual magic both being lowered by essence loss, your maximum of one at awakening got automatically lowered to 0 again . .

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

this rule automatically means that everyone with the latent awakening can't use any cyber or bio unless he has initiated and raised his/her magic level at least once, because they will burn out immediately after awakening . . if they wake up at all . .

No - latent awakening is special in that the 1 magic point never even exists until the GM gives you the go-ahead. As long as you still have at least 1 essence, when the GM says you awaken, you get 1 point of magic. Only after that point do you need to initiate before adding any more cyber.