New and Modified Cyberware Suites, (because the book is uncharacteristically lacking) |
New and Modified Cyberware Suites, (because the book is uncharacteristically lacking) |
Dec 5 2008, 02:06 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
CYBERWARE SUITES:
Due to errors in the math in Augmentation, I've redone the Cyberware suites chart (and added some and modified another). I removed the cost of the commlink from the package before multiplying for grade then added it back in. I've also included the package's base essence cost in case the purchaser has biocompatibility or an Adapsin treatment (for ease of redoing the math). I give permission freely to repost this on websites and use in your games. ---Streetangelj (J Carroll) Lone Star SWAT: -Add Cyberware Safety -Change to TrumanTech MaxFire A Cybereyes with Recorder, Image Link, Smartlink, Thermographic, Flare Compensation, and Magnification. 7 Days Right Hand Man: 7 Days Security markets this package to bodyguards and executive protection teams across North America. The cyberarms can carry 2 capacity worth of additional components, and can be customized to each user at full normal cost. It includes the following components: -2 BioGene Synthetic Cyberarms Primary Arm -Weapons World ES5 Shock Hand -Weapons World Mine! Cyber Safety -Wiremasters Inc. Aura-4 Scanner System (rating 4) -Fingertip Compartment Secondary Arm: -Microdeck Vista 2070 Commlink (treat as Fairlight Caliban) -Microdeck Via 2068 Orientation System -Microdeck Interlok 2070 Datajack -CrashCart Chiurgion Biomonitor -BioGene TacBone CZ Ceramic Bone Lacing -Wiremasters Inc. Sherlock-3 Attention CoProcessor (rating 3) -Wiremaster Inc. Raptor-3 Cybereyes (with Recorder, Image Link, Smartlink, Flare Compensation, Low Light, and Thermographic options) -Wiremasters Inc. Canine-2 Cyberears (with Recorder, Sound Link, Improved Sensitivity, Damper, and Select Sound Filter-2) -Wiremasters Inc. Sasquatch Voice Modulator Renraku Digital Maestro: Renraku designed this package to be marketed to singers and composers of digital music. It includes the following components: -Tetradyne Lucid III Implanted Commlink (treat as Novatech Airwave w/ an included Iris Orb OS) w/ sim module -Tetradyne Trance Cyberears (rating 2) w/ Sound Link, Recorder, Increased Sensitivity, Enhancemement-3, Damper, and Select Sound Filter- 3 -Tetradyne Envision Image Link Eye Modification -Tetradyne Virtuoso Voice Modulator -Global Technologies Transit Datajack -Global Technologies Hypersense Simrig -Global Technologies Tactile+ Touch Link -Global Technologies Statistician Math SPU Mitsuhama Spidersuite: The Spidersuite is designed to help professional climbers and has found its way into the underworld as an aid for second-story men. It includes the following components: -Drive-Ware Technologies GyroPlus Balance Augmenter Ear Modification -Drive-Ware Technologies HyperAttach Magnetic System (1 each arm and leg) -Evo Articulare Smart Articulation -Evo Mantara Muscle Replacement (rating 2) -Automation Systems, Inc. Roo Balance Tail -Automation Systems, Inc. Chimp Grip Feet -Automation Systems, Inc. Kat Retractable Climbing Claws (1 each hand and foot) Still trying to insert the chart...can anybody tell me how? [img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/streetangelj/SuitesChart.jpg[/img] |
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Dec 5 2008, 02:13 PM
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#2
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
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Dec 5 2008, 02:22 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
Because commlinks don't come in grades and are an add-on to the implant cost, just like I wouldn't chage extra for the contents of a graded auto-injector.
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Dec 5 2008, 02:25 PM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Implanted commlinks do indeed come in Grades, just as any other piece of Cyberware.
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Dec 5 2008, 02:37 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
Of course they do. But as interpret it, the 2000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) pays for the implant part which is the dock and the connecting hardware for the body while the actual commlink is replacable (albeit requiring minor sugery) thus the additional cost by commlink.
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Dec 5 2008, 03:33 PM
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#6
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
Of course they do. But as interpret it, the 2000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) pays for the implant part which is the dock and the connecting hardware for the body while the actual commlink is replacable (albeit requiring minor sugery) thus the additional cost by commlink. Commlinks don't work like that. If you want to upgrade an implanted cyber commlink then you have to remove out the whole thing and then re-implant it. The Essence/ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) cost is not a "docking station in you head". Where did you get that idea from? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) ------------------------------------------------ EDIT: If you get Audio Enhancement you don't need to have the Increased Sensitivity. Increased Sensitivity gives you infra/ultrasound hearing with the extra enhancement (AKA increase in your dice pool for audio tests). I would give the "Right Hand Man" suite Audio Enhancement... a body guard WANTS to have better hearing than a common slot. |
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Dec 5 2008, 03:50 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
Cranial Cyberdecks from Shadowtech worked similarly to how I envision the implanted commlink functioning.
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Dec 5 2008, 03:50 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 13-April 07 From: Houston, Texas Member No.: 11,448 |
Commlinks don't work like that. If you want to upgrade an implanted cyber commlink then you have to remove out the whole thing and then re-implant it. The Essence/ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) cost is not a "docking station in you head". Where did you get that idea from? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) ------------------------------------------------ EDIT: If you get Audio Enhancement you don't need to have the Increased Sensitivity. Increased Sensitivity gives you infra/ultrasound hearing with the extra enhancement (AKA increase in your dice pool for audio tests). I would give the "Right Hand Man" suite Audio Enhancement... a body guard WANTS to have better hearing than a common slot. cyber docs will have the electronics skill. Just have them upgrade it, rather than buying a new commlink altogether. |
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Dec 5 2008, 04:19 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 19-October 08 Member No.: 16,532 |
would not the craniel docking station for a comlink just be a datajack?(albeit with a add on slot to hold it so you would looke like your wereing a beer hat with you comlink it it lol)
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Dec 5 2008, 05:44 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
As I recall, there is no explicit rule on how to cost alpha or better grade implanted comlinks. Like streetangelj I used to assume/believe that only the 2,000ае should be multiplied since that was the interface. Then you plug in a comlink module which is purchased separately, would only have an electronics cost (unaffected by cyberware grade) and would be upgradable via simple outpatient surgery.
Then I reverse engineered the cybersuites from Augmentation and discovered that the devs were multiplying the cost of the comlink itself as well. Note for the curious, the base costs for a 6/6 comlink are as follows:
P.S. It also bugs me that by current RAW, Sim Modules cost additional essence, since it screws implanted comlinks vs external comlinks (where it is just extra electronics within the comlink). |
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Dec 5 2008, 06:16 PM
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#11
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
P.S. It also bugs me that by current RAW, Sim Modules cost additional essence, since it screws implanted comlinks vs external comlinks (where it is just extra electronics within the comlink). Note that an implanted commlink and an external sim module with trodes works perfectly fine and don't cost additional essence for the sim module. |
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Dec 5 2008, 08:38 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
I'd still like to be able to include my chart and would appreciate help with that- thanks
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Dec 5 2008, 08:38 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
Note that an implanted commlink and an external sim module with trodes works perfectly fine and don't cost additional essence for the sim module. That is exactly my point. In SR4 there are good reliable ways to interface with an external comlink for no essence, and external comlinks are very cheap to upgrade.Compare the following which all have the exact same in-game performance (note a 6/6 comlink is 19,500ае, see above):
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Dec 5 2008, 08:46 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
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Dec 5 2008, 08:50 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
You just illustrated one of the reasons why I don't include the commlink in grade multipliers. Besides, I see them as being very similar to the way persona modules for cranial cyberdecks worked from previous editions.
Edit: So in the 150+ non posted views of this thread I was just wondering how many of you agreed with the way MJBurrage (at least originally) and myself interpreted internal commlinks working? P.S. I also envisioned a sort of mental switch that would shut down the commlink's signal for security reasons and force it to route data through a datajack to facilitate external communication, kinda like the old headware radio/transducer combo. This post has been edited by streetangelj: Dec 6 2008, 05:28 PM |
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Dec 7 2008, 06:21 AM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
Bump...
Because I'm kinda hoping to get some answers to my questions from the last post. |
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Dec 7 2008, 07:14 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749 |
From the beginning I house ruled how internal commlinks work. I rule that the internal commlink cost only covers implementation and that the commlink cost is seperate(not affected by grade). Its not quite a docking station(the commlink is hardwired to your implant) but you can gut a new commlink and hook it up to your implant. If the characters pays the price for a sim module they can have that hooked up to the internal link as well(no essence cost). I also rule that a datajack comes with an internal link, due to the simple fact that you need a physical way to link up to it for it to do the job it's meant to do.
Even with all that, very few players choose to have internal links, there just isn't enough benefit. |
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Dec 7 2008, 08:20 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
I can see it either way.
Option A: Grade Multipliers don't apply, you are upgrading the components that determine the effectiveness of the link and nothing that interfaces with the implantee, not even it's shell. Thus, grade doesn't impact it. Option B: Part of achieving a lower essence cost is using smaller components to create a smaller form factor thus the components are smaller, more specialized and therefore more expensive. |
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Dec 7 2008, 08:28 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,768 Joined: 31-October 08 From: Redmond (Yes, really) Member No.: 16,558 |
I weigh in on the side of not-absurd costs for internal commlinks.
It just makes more sense that way. |
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Dec 7 2008, 08:46 AM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749 |
When you think about it, an internal comlink is really nothing more then an internal datajack+a storage compartment.
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Dec 7 2008, 05:25 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
Thanks for the replies guys, glad to know I'm not COMPLETLY alone in my interpretation here. I tend to draw a lot of technical fluff from Shadowtech into the way I interpret how the new tech works since while Catalyst is doing an excellent job of putting out sourcebooks filled with all the right game information (at a speed I'm actually having some trouble keeping up with, economy and all), they seem to be kinda less focused on providing the high quality fluff we got in some of the older books (Shadowtech, Rigger Black v1, Shadowbeat, and the Neo-Anarchist's Guides).
Any other thoughts on the actual packages themselves (if you noticed, they're mostly the undefined ones named on Aug. 31) besides the suggestion to replace the increased sensitivity ear mod in the 7 Days package (which the ears lack room for and I fail to understand the logic behind)? |
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Dec 7 2008, 06:09 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 748 Joined: 22-April 07 From: Vermont Member No.: 11,507 |
When you think about it, an internal comlink is really nothing more then an internal datajack+a storage compartment. By strict RAW, both a deltaware datajack (5,000ае, 0.05 Essence), and a deltaware sim module (w/ hot sim; 50,000ае, 0.1 Essence) each have a Device Rating of 6.(SR4,p.214) This gives each one not only Response & Signal, but also Firewall & System all at Rating 6.(SR4,p.213) So just use either one as your comlink. Of course many of the NPC hackers, spiders, etc. in both Augmentation and Unwired have cyberware comlinks, sim modules, and datajacks; so common sense (but not RAW) says you cant just run your programs on your sim module or datajack. Question, what in RAW stops a character from doing the following:
If it were up to me, I would issue errata stating that non-comlink cyberware may not run hacking programs, but at the same time "correct" the costs of the cyberware suites such that they only include a 2,000ае comlink interface, and the comlink cost is extra (but non-scaling). |
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Dec 7 2008, 07:26 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749 |
Peripheral Nodes can only run programs they are designed to run, and thats why you can't use your datajack as a comlink. Thats like saying I should be able to run a computer game on my Xbox 360 even though it's more powerful then my PC. I can't because it's not designed to do that.
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Dec 7 2008, 10:09 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
Peripheral Nodes can only run programs they are designed to run, and thats why you can't use your datajack as a comlink. Thats like saying I should be able to run a computer game on my Xbox 360 even though it's more powerful then my PC. I can't because it's not designed to do that. Nope, you are wrong OOB. Page 48 of Unwired: QUOTE They can, however, be clustered with other minor nodes, acting in concert as a single super-node (see Clusters, p. 55). That to me says that I can cluster together all my Alpha Cyberware and get a Response 4 Node. Signal might be a little different, but Response would be 4. |
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Dec 7 2008, 10:26 PM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The question is though, is just any 'Response 4 Node' capable of running any Program, and being utilized as a Commlink?
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