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streetangelj
CYBERWARE SUITES:

Due to errors in the math in Augmentation, I've redone the Cyberware suites chart (and added some and modified another). I removed the cost of the commlink from the package before multiplying for grade then added it back in. I've also included the package's base essence cost in case the purchaser has biocompatibility or an Adapsin treatment (for ease of redoing the math). I give permission freely to repost this on websites and use in your games.

---Streetangelj (J Carroll)

Lone Star SWAT:
-Add Cyberware Safety
-Change to TrumanTech MaxFire A Cybereyes with Recorder, Image Link, Smartlink, Thermographic, Flare Compensation, and Magnification.

7 Days Right Hand Man: 7 Days Security markets this package to bodyguards and executive protection teams across North America. The cyberarms can carry 2 capacity worth of additional components, and can be customized to each user at full normal cost. It includes the following components:
-2 BioGene Synthetic Cyberarms
Primary Arm
-Weapons World ES5 Shock Hand
-Weapons World Mine! Cyber Safety
-Wiremasters Inc. Aura-4 Scanner System (rating 4)
-Fingertip Compartment
Secondary Arm:
-Microdeck Vista 2070 Commlink (treat as Fairlight Caliban)
-Microdeck Via 2068 Orientation System
-Microdeck Interlok 2070 Datajack
-CrashCart Chiurgion Biomonitor
-BioGene TacBone CZ Ceramic Bone Lacing
-Wiremasters Inc. Sherlock-3 Attention CoProcessor (rating 3)
-Wiremaster Inc. Raptor-3 Cybereyes (with Recorder, Image Link, Smartlink, Flare Compensation, Low Light, and Thermographic options)
-Wiremasters Inc. Canine-2 Cyberears (with Recorder, Sound Link, Improved Sensitivity, Damper, and Select Sound Filter-2)
-Wiremasters Inc. Sasquatch Voice Modulator

Renraku Digital Maestro: Renraku designed this package to be marketed to singers and composers of digital music. It includes the following components:
-Tetradyne Lucid III Implanted Commlink (treat as Novatech Airwave w/ an included Iris Orb OS) w/ sim module
-Tetradyne Trance Cyberears (rating 2) w/ Sound Link, Recorder, Increased Sensitivity, Enhancemement-3, Damper, and Select Sound Filter- 3
-Tetradyne Envision Image Link Eye Modification
-Tetradyne Virtuoso Voice Modulator
-Global Technologies Transit Datajack
-Global Technologies Hypersense Simrig
-Global Technologies Tactile+ Touch Link
-Global Technologies Statistician Math SPU

Mitsuhama Spidersuite: The Spidersuite is designed to help professional climbers and has found its way into the underworld as an aid for second-story men. It includes the following components:
-Drive-Ware Technologies GyroPlus Balance Augmenter Ear Modification
-Drive-Ware Technologies HyperAttach Magnetic System (1 each arm and leg)
-Evo Articulare Smart Articulation
-Evo Mantara Muscle Replacement (rating 2)
-Automation Systems, Inc. Roo Balance Tail
-Automation Systems, Inc. Chimp Grip Feet
-Automation Systems, Inc. Kat Retractable Climbing Claws (1 each hand and foot)

Still trying to insert the chart...can anybody tell me how?

[img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/streetangelj/SuitesChart.jpg[/img]
Fortune
QUOTE (streetangelj @ Dec 6 2008, 01:06 AM) *
I removed the cost of the commlink from the package before multiplying for grade then added it back in.


Why?
streetangelj
Because commlinks don't come in grades and are an add-on to the implant cost, just like I wouldn't chage extra for the contents of a graded auto-injector.
Fortune
Implanted commlinks do indeed come in Grades, just as any other piece of Cyberware.
streetangelj
Of course they do. But as interpret it, the 2000 nuyen.gif pays for the implant part which is the dock and the connecting hardware for the body while the actual commlink is replacable (albeit requiring minor sugery) thus the additional cost by commlink.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (streetangelj @ Dec 5 2008, 09:37 AM) *
Of course they do. But as interpret it, the 2000 nuyen.gif pays for the implant part which is the dock and the connecting hardware for the body while the actual commlink is replacable (albeit requiring minor sugery) thus the additional cost by commlink.


Commlinks don't work like that. If you want to upgrade an implanted cyber commlink then you have to remove out the whole thing and then re-implant it. The Essence/ nuyen.gif cost is not a "docking station in you head". Where did you get that idea from? question.gif

------------------------------------------------

EDIT: If you get Audio Enhancement you don't need to have the Increased Sensitivity. Increased Sensitivity gives you infra/ultrasound hearing with the extra enhancement (AKA increase in your dice pool for audio tests). I would give the "Right Hand Man" suite Audio Enhancement... a body guard WANTS to have better hearing than a common slot.
streetangelj
Cranial Cyberdecks from Shadowtech worked similarly to how I envision the implanted commlink functioning.
Starmage21
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 5 2008, 11:33 AM) *
Commlinks don't work like that. If you want to upgrade an implanted cyber commlink then you have to remove out the whole thing and then re-implant it. The Essence/ nuyen.gif cost is not a "docking station in you head". Where did you get that idea from? question.gif

------------------------------------------------

EDIT: If you get Audio Enhancement you don't need to have the Increased Sensitivity. Increased Sensitivity gives you infra/ultrasound hearing with the extra enhancement (AKA increase in your dice pool for audio tests). I would give the "Right Hand Man" suite Audio Enhancement... a body guard WANTS to have better hearing than a common slot.



cyber docs will have the electronics skill. Just have them upgrade it, rather than buying a new commlink altogether.
Namelessjoe
would not the craniel docking station for a comlink just be a datajack?(albeit with a add on slot to hold it so you would looke like your wereing a beer hat with you comlink it it lol)
MJBurrage
As I recall, there is no explicit rule on how to cost alpha or better grade implanted comlinks. Like streetangelj I used to assume/believe that only the 2,000 ¥ should be multiplied since that was the interface. Then you plug in a comlink module which is purchased separately, would only have an electronics cost (unaffected by cyberware grade) and would be upgradable via simple outpatient surgery.

Then I reverse engineered the cybersuites from Augmentation and discovered that the devs were multiplying the cost of the comlink itself as well.

Note for the curious, the base costs for a 6/6 comlink are as follows:
  • Upgraded Fairlight Caliban: 23,000 ¥
  • Upgraded Transys Avalon: 21,000 ¥
  • Completely custom comlink: 20,960 ¥
  • Upgraded Hermes Ikon: 19,500 ¥
    Any other upgraded models are in between the Ikon and full custom.
Which begs the question, why would anyone implant (or even buy) a Fairlight Caliban when an equivalently upgraded Hermes Ikon is always 3,500 ¥ cheaper? (Which under RAW as used in Augmentation, works out to 35,000 ¥ cheaper for delta grade for the exact same stats.)

P.S. It also bugs me that by current RAW, Sim Modules cost additional essence, since it screws implanted comlinks vs external comlinks (where it is just extra electronics within the comlink).
DireRadiant
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Dec 5 2008, 01:44 PM) *
P.S. It also bugs me that by current RAW, Sim Modules cost additional essence, since it screws implanted comlinks vs external comlinks (where it is just extra electronics within the comlink).


Note that an implanted commlink and an external sim module with trodes works perfectly fine and don't cost additional essence for the sim module.
streetangelj
I'd still like to be able to include my chart and would appreciate help with that- thanks
MJBurrage
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Dec 5 2008, 01:16 PM) *
Note that an implanted commlink and an external sim module with trodes works perfectly fine and don't cost additional essence for the sim module.
That is exactly my point. In SR4 there are good reliable ways to interface with an external comlink for no essence, and external comlinks are very cheap to upgrade.

Compare the following which all have the exact same in-game performance (note a 6/6 comlink is 19,500 ¥, see above):
  • External 6/6 comlink with a Sim Module (hot sim) and Trodes: 19,800 ¥
  • External 6/6 comlink with a Sim Module (hot sim) and a datajack: 20,250 ¥ (0.1 Essence)
    • Alpha: 20,750 ¥ (0.08 Essence), Beta: 21,750 ¥ (0.07 Essence), Delta: 24,750 ¥ (0.05 Essence)
  • Internal 6/6 comlink with a cyberware Sim Module (hot sim): 24,500 ¥ (0.4 Essence)
    • Alpha: 49,000 ¥ (0.32 Essence), Beta: 98,000 ¥ (0.28 Essence), Delta: 245,000 ¥ (0.2 Essence)
    The Essence cost of an implanted comlink is just too high, and the ¥ cost for the improved grades is absurd.
Now if the comlink itself was not included in the grade calculations—and still included a Sim Module—then one would get:
  • Internal 6/6 comlink with an included Sim Module (hot sim): 21,750 ¥ (0.2 Essence)
    • Alpha: 23,750 ¥ (0.16 Essence), Beta: 27,750 ¥ (0.14 Essence), Delta: 39,750 ¥ (0.1 Essence)
    At double the Essence—and almost double the ¥ cost—of an external comlink via datajack, this is much more appropriate than the results of current RAW for internal comlinks.
MJBurrage
QUOTE (streetangelj @ Dec 5 2008, 03:38 PM) *
I'd still like to be able to include my chart and would appreciate help with that- thanks
As far as I know there is no way to duplicate HTML tables in posts. (I wish there was)

You can use [codebox] to fake tables with fixed-space text.
streetangelj
You just illustrated one of the reasons why I don't include the commlink in grade multipliers. Besides, I see them as being very similar to the way persona modules for cranial cyberdecks worked from previous editions.

Edit: So in the 150+ non posted views of this thread I was just wondering how many of you agreed with the way MJBurrage (at least originally) and myself interpreted internal commlinks working?

P.S. I also envisioned a sort of mental switch that would shut down the commlink's signal for security reasons and force it to route data through a datajack to facilitate external communication, kinda like the old headware radio/transducer combo.
streetangelj
Bump...

Because I'm kinda hoping to get some answers to my questions from the last post.
TheOOB
From the beginning I house ruled how internal commlinks work. I rule that the internal commlink cost only covers implementation and that the commlink cost is seperate(not affected by grade). Its not quite a docking station(the commlink is hardwired to your implant) but you can gut a new commlink and hook it up to your implant. If the characters pays the price for a sim module they can have that hooked up to the internal link as well(no essence cost). I also rule that a datajack comes with an internal link, due to the simple fact that you need a physical way to link up to it for it to do the job it's meant to do.

Even with all that, very few players choose to have internal links, there just isn't enough benefit.
Cabral
I can see it either way.

Option A: Grade Multipliers don't apply, you are upgrading the components that determine the effectiveness of the link and nothing that interfaces with the implantee, not even it's shell. Thus, grade doesn't impact it.

Option B: Part of achieving a lower essence cost is using smaller components to create a smaller form factor thus the components are smaller, more specialized and therefore more expensive.
Tyro
I weigh in on the side of not-absurd costs for internal commlinks.

It just makes more sense that way.
TheOOB
When you think about it, an internal comlink is really nothing more then an internal datajack+a storage compartment.
streetangelj
Thanks for the replies guys, glad to know I'm not COMPLETLY alone in my interpretation here. I tend to draw a lot of technical fluff from Shadowtech into the way I interpret how the new tech works since while Catalyst is doing an excellent job of putting out sourcebooks filled with all the right game information (at a speed I'm actually having some trouble keeping up with, economy and all), they seem to be kinda less focused on providing the high quality fluff we got in some of the older books (Shadowtech, Rigger Black v1, Shadowbeat, and the Neo-Anarchist's Guides).

Any other thoughts on the actual packages themselves (if you noticed, they're mostly the undefined ones named on Aug. 31) besides the suggestion to replace the increased sensitivity ear mod in the 7 Days package (which the ears lack room for and I fail to understand the logic behind)?
MJBurrage
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Dec 7 2008, 03:46 AM) *
When you think about it, an internal comlink is really nothing more then an internal datajack+a storage compartment.

By strict RAW, both a deltaware datajack (5,000 ¥, 0.05 Essence), and a deltaware sim module (w/ hot sim; 50,000 ¥, 0.1 Essence) each have a Device Rating of 6.(SR4,p.214) This gives each one not only Response & Signal, but also Firewall & System all at Rating 6.(SR4,p.213) So just use either one as your comlink.

Of course many of the NPC hackers, spiders, etc. in both Augmentation and Unwired have cyberware comlinks, sim modules, and datajacks; so common sense (but not RAW) says you cant just run your programs on your sim module or datajack.

Question, what in RAW stops a character from doing the following:
    Build or buy a custom external comlink (rating 6/6) with a sim module (w/ hot sim), such that the entire comlink fits in a case the size of a datajack plug (19,750 ¥). Then they plug it in to a deltaware datajack, and have it implanted such that it is not exposed outside the body. Voila an internal comlink that follows all rules and has a total cost of 24,750 ¥ (0.05 Essence)
Since the above would be easy, the current rulings on cyberware comlinks (cost is multiplied by the interface's grade, and a sim module is not included) are even more absurd.

If it were up to me, I would issue errata stating that non-comlink cyberware may not run hacking programs, but at the same time "correct" the costs of the cyberware suites such that they only include a 2,000 ¥ comlink interface, and the comlink cost is extra (but non-scaling).
TheOOB
Peripheral Nodes can only run programs they are designed to run, and thats why you can't use your datajack as a comlink. Thats like saying I should be able to run a computer game on my Xbox 360 even though it's more powerful then my PC. I can't because it's not designed to do that.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Dec 7 2008, 02:26 PM) *
Peripheral Nodes can only run programs they are designed to run, and thats why you can't use your datajack as a comlink. Thats like saying I should be able to run a computer game on my Xbox 360 even though it's more powerful then my PC. I can't because it's not designed to do that.


Nope, you are wrong OOB. Page 48 of Unwired:

QUOTE
They can, however, be clustered with other minor nodes, acting in concert as a single super-node (see Clusters, p. 55).


That to me says that I can cluster together all my Alpha Cyberware and get a Response 4 Node. Signal might be a little different, but Response would be 4.
Fortune
The question is though, is just any 'Response 4 Node' capable of running any Program, and being utilized as a Commlink?
Shadow
Considering how easy it is to hack/disrupt a comlink I would think the last thing a runner would want, was an internal commlink. The first thing I do after runs is smash mine into a million pieces right before I set it on fire. Those damn things are like a giant hunters mark above your head.

"COME HERE THE GUY WHO JUST PERPATRATED TEH CRIME IS HIDING RIGHT HERE"

No thank you. If it was internal you would have to see a street doc after every job.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Fortune @ Dec 7 2008, 05:26 PM) *
The question is though, is just any 'Response 4 Node' capable of running any Program, and being utilized as a Commlink?


I would say that the first line under Clusters would give you an idea (page 55 in Unwired for your reference):

QUOTE
Sometimes, you have a lot of low-powered devices, but what you really need is a single node able to sustain several personas and/or run a lot of programs at once


That to me screams that you can run it as a Commlink.


QUOTE (Shadow @ Dec 7 2008, 05:32 PM) *
Considering how easy it is to hack/disrupt a comlink I would think the last thing a runner would want, was an internal commlink. The first thing I do after runs is smash mine into a million pieces right before I set it on fire. Those damn things are like a giant hunters mark above your head.

"COME HERE THE GUY WHO JUST PERPATRATED TEH CRIME IS HIDING RIGHT HERE"

No thank you. If it was internal you would have to see a street doc after every job.



That is if you are a paranoid hacker. Another way a hacker can do it is run maxed out Stealth, maxed out Spoof, and maxed out Encrypt.

Also who's to say HOW a commlink states its ID. I would think that a real hacker has his "MAC Address" (or whatever the hell they use in SR) erased and changeable every single run. In fact this is how I would see a hacker &/or every other member of a team prep themselves for a 'Run:

  1. backup the "Safe, normal citizen" MAC Address of their 'Links
  2. backup personal data to a data chip and leave it in a safe deposit box
  3. "flash" in the new false MAC Address into each 'Link
  4. change the registration ID of their OS and Firewall
  5. make sure both Encrypt AND Firewall are up to date
  6. make sure IC and Attack programs are up to date
  7. do the 'Run
  8. get to a safe place, unload paydata
  9. "flash" their links back to their "Safe, normal citizen" MAC Address
  10. change the registration ID of their OS and Firewall back
  11. lay low for a few days
  12. Profit
Stahlseele
much too complicated . . use two comlinks, one that has everything a runner needs and NOTHING that a runner wants, one that has NOTHING a runner wants and NOTHING that a runner wants . .
read: spam and advertising and such things and no security to speak of but also nothing valuable on the civilian . .
before run deposti civilian link into said box, after run exchange for runner link and visa a vis . .
Fortune
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 8 2008, 10:31 AM) *
I would say that the first line under Clusters would give you an idea (page 55 in Unwired for your reference):



That to me screams that you can run it as a Commlink.


I don't have the book with me at the moment, so all I can go on is your quote. That being said, all that says to me is that it can run a few more programs than the normal toaster. It doesn't state which programs the Cluster is capable of running, nor does it state that the Cluster has any other functions of a Commlink.
Tachi
I basically just ruled that brand name commlinks are all just "standard" ware if implanted. If you want a better grade it has to be custom. Don't forget the "Spoof Chip" to keep your headware commlink anonymous. AND have a throw away commlink for your fake SINs/licenses/daily BS. But hey, that's just me.
streetangelj
In my games most of the PCs have Internal custom commlinks with maxed out encrypt and analyze (at the vey least) running in hidden mode (when they're running them at all - I hadn't thought about spoof chips, so I'll probably retcon them in) connected to shadow MSPs which they use only for running. They have throw away commlinks which they have for daily and public use with attached IDs, licences and program packages that they replace often enough that I built them as a package of hardware/software/services. (In case anyone's curious, the package is: Novatech Airware Commlink, Iris Orb OS, Sim Module, Holoprojector, FTL Matrixware Netwizard software suite, Rating 4 Fake ID w/ 1 rating 4 Professional Liscense (Bodyguard, Courier, P.I., Military Veteran, whatever best fits) and whatever MSP comes with the lifestyle registered to that ID- Cost:6,330 nuyen.gif - a roughly 15% discount). And if they want to upgrade or replace their tricked-out "running links", even the ones with implants simply require a few hours at the Street Doc for some outpatient surgery once they have the replacement link the way that I rule them.
Tyro
QUOTE (streetangelj @ Dec 5 2008, 12:50 PM) *
You just illustrated one of the reasons why I don't include the commlink in grade multipliers. Besides, I see them as being very similar to the way persona modules for cranial cyberdecks worked from previous editions.

Edit: So in the 150+ non posted views of this thread I was just wondering how many of you agreed with the way MJBurrage (at least originally) and myself interpreted internal commlinks working?

P.S. I also envisioned a sort of mental switch that would shut down the commlink's signal for security reasons and force it to route data through a datajack to facilitate external communication, kinda like the old headware radio/transducer combo.

I very much agree that only the base nuyen.gif 2,000 should be factored in.
KCKitsune
Maybe we can get someone from Catalyst to chime in on this question. We can also ask them to answer what a super cluster can and can not do.
The Jake
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 7 2008, 11:31 PM) *
I would say that the first line under Clusters would give you an idea (page 55 in Unwired for your reference):



That to me screams that you can run it as a Commlink.





That is if you are a paranoid hacker. Another way a hacker can do it is run maxed out Stealth, maxed out Spoof, and maxed out Encrypt.

Also who's to say HOW a commlink states its ID. I would think that a real hacker has his "MAC Address" (or whatever the hell they use in SR) erased and changeable every single run. In fact this is how I would see a hacker &/or every other member of a team prep themselves for a 'Run:

  1. backup the "Safe, normal citizen" MAC Address of their 'Links
  2. backup personal data to a data chip and leave it in a safe deposit box
  3. "flash" in the new false MAC Address into each 'Link
  4. change the registration ID of their OS and Firewall
  5. make sure both Encrypt AND Firewall are up to date
  6. make sure IC and Attack programs are up to date
  7. do the 'Run
  8. get to a safe place, unload paydata
  9. "flash" their links back to their "Safe, normal citizen" MAC Address
  10. change the registration ID of their OS and Firewall back
  11. lay low for a few days
  12. Profit



This is how we assume in my group it works, otherwise it becomes a game of Shadowrun: Accounting rather than Shadowrun the RPG.

Also, are there rules for cybersuites? Otherwise I'd love to create my various UniSol and T-800 Cybersuites.... (I've always wanted to play a street sam that can soak/heal fully automatic gunfire easily). grinbig.gif

- J.
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