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> Astral perception and cybereyes with vision enhancement
Tyro
post Dec 6 2008, 11:01 PM
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Do you get the bonus for astral perception? It would give mages a reason to buy more than the rating 1 cybereyes with low-light and thermo.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 6 2008, 11:03 PM
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no

reasons for mages to buy them include getting rid of visibility modifiers without using astral perception.
included storage and video-capture equipment and smartlink is now eyeware and fits in . .
make them really painfully obvious and maybe some people won't think you are a mage any more . .
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Ancient History
post Dec 6 2008, 11:09 PM
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To expand on that a little, astral perception is not tied to your physical vision, or really any of your physical senses.

[ Spoiler ]
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Tyro
post Dec 6 2008, 11:15 PM
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Thank you, AH. Much appreciated.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 6 2008, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Dec 7 2008, 12:09 AM) *
To expand on that a little, astral perception is not tied to your physical vision, or really any of your physical senses.

[ Spoiler ]


also, the mind has to translate the info into something.

i suspect a mage that was born blind would get things translated as sounds and other senses.

a shedim's aura smelling like something rotten, maybe?

that is, unless said person awoke at a early age and learned to replace his missing natural vision with his astral one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Steampunk
post Dec 7 2008, 10:35 AM
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Even for a mage who isn't blind, aspects of astral perception may not be vision-based. A mage could, for example, "smell" the cyberware instead of seeing it in an aura. But of course, this (imho) depends on the mage, for most humans, vision is the primary sense, so this will probably the one the mind translates the info into.
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Dragnar
post Dec 7 2008, 10:46 AM
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Astral perception isn't vision based for any mage, that's the point. It is just described that way for the benefit of us, the nonmagical readers. It is an extra sense, and as awakened people have had it for most of their lives, it's just as natural as seeing or hearing for them.
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ornot
post Dec 7 2008, 02:54 PM
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I've a mage PC in the game I'm running whose home brew tradition entirely revolves around music. Hence I describe auras as melodies or rhythms, which 'ware implants make increasingly discordant. The kind of music is determined by the mood of the owner of said aura. Mana surges make everything louder, while mana ebbs dampen all sounds.

It's not all one way though; I make him describe the sounds that go along with his spells, and occasionally require him to sing for the groups amusement.
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MJBurrage
post Dec 7 2008, 03:09 PM
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I understand that none of the physical senses are involved in Astral Perception, I.E. not dependent on eyes, ears, touch etc.

But what about how it's processed in the brain?
  • Has there ever been a description of what part of the brain does the job?
  • Would an awakened dolphin describe Astral Perception in terms of hearing, while metahumans describe the same thing in terms of vision?
  • If you damage the visual cortex, does that damage your ability to perceive the astral realm in a spatial way?
  • If you damage the auditory cortex, does that damage your ability to communicate on astral realm?
  • And so on for the parts of the brain that process taste, smell, touch, etc.
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Aaron
post Dec 7 2008, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Dec 7 2008, 09:09 AM) *
I understand that none of the physical senses are involved in Astral Perception, I.E. not dependent on eyes, ears, touch etc.

But what about how it's processed in the brain?

When I'm behind the BBS, I run it as being processed using the sense that the person using astral perception uses predominantly when learning. So visual learners would process it as vision, aural learners as sound, tactile-kinesthetic learners as feeling and a sense of space. If a player hasn't developed their character that far, then I describe it as visual until I suss out what sort of learner the player is, then I describe it that way.

For what that's worth.
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Ancient History
post Dec 7 2008, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Dec 7 2008, 04:09 PM) *
I understand that none of the physical senses are involved in Astral Perception, I.E. not dependent on eyes, ears, touch etc.

But what about how it's processed in the brain?

To a large part, this remains unknown since you can't record astral perception using simsense, so the exact portion(s) of the brain (if any) involved are still a bit of a mystery...though if you'd like to volunteer your character, I'm sure there are a number of corps that would be happy to strap them down and selectively destroy portions of their brain until they find out.
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kanislatrans
post Dec 7 2008, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Dragnar @ Dec 7 2008, 05:46 AM) *
Astral perception isn't vision based for any mage, that's the point. It is just described that way for the benefit of us, the nonmagical readers. It is an extra sense, and as awakened people have had it for most of their lives, it's just as natural as seeing or hearing for them.


To step out on a limb here and use a RL reference:

My wife and I are both Pagan. She follows a Wiccan path and is an artist. She views auras as color and light.

I lean towards a shamantic approach . I sense things more as a hot/cold feeling or just flashes of "Knowing".

Its not so much "Seeing things" as reaching into the astral plane and interpreting the knowledge through your experiences.

At least thats how it seems to work at this point in the cycle. Ask me again after 2011 and I may have a clearer picture for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)




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streetangelj
post Dec 7 2008, 05:35 PM
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I'll back you up on the RL experience. I'm "mostly" shamanic in my outlook and I also "read auras" by "touch", however if I've been exposed to it enough or spend enough time focusing on it I kinda get a picture (the way I imagine bats, dolphins, and Daredevil "see" things with ultrasound); However most of the Pagans (from all sorts of paradigms) I know who claim to read auras say that they "see" them, some in color, some not.
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Tyro
post Dec 7 2008, 11:39 PM
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I have a good bit of experience there myself IRL; people who physically see astral signatures are incredibly rare. I think it might actually be a type of synesthesia.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 7 2008, 11:48 PM
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i myself don't really believe in this stuff . .
but i know a girl who does not need to see someone to know how far away they are . .
we tried once, blindfolded and placed headphones on her so she could neither hear nor see us come closer . .
every time we reached a certain distance to her, she would point at us, even though we moved in from all directions . .
she once or twice even identified who was closest to her like that . . kinda creepy, but nice girl . .
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Ancient History
post Dec 7 2008, 11:49 PM
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You're all a bunch of dirty hippies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Dec 7 2008, 11:50 PM
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yes they are.
me, i ain't old enough to be a hippie!
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Tyro
post Dec 8 2008, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 7 2008, 03:50 PM) *
yes they are.
me, i ain't old enough to be a hippie!

I'm 21. I'm a born-again hippie!
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Method
post Dec 8 2008, 01:12 AM
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God Module
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kanislatrans
post Dec 8 2008, 04:34 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Already the persecution of the Awakened begins. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I would consider myself more of a Yippie, since Hippie's tend to be passive and non-violent. Yippie's on the other hand, really knew how to shake things up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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streetangelj
post Dec 8 2008, 09:48 AM
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Nope AH, my parents were hippies; I'm a burnout child of the '80s.
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 8 2008, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (streetangelj @ Dec 7 2008, 06:35 PM) *
I'll back you up on the RL experience. I'm "mostly" shamanic in my outlook and I also "read auras" by "touch",



I can see you getting sued for sexual harrasment.

In my opinion stral perception is felt with all the senses, as well on an emotive level and some oder very visceral sensations, it's also (being not tied ot any organ) not directional but all around.
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streetangelj
post Dec 8 2008, 08:46 PM
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Hasn't happenned yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Muspellsheimr
post Dec 9 2008, 01:56 AM
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My understanding is that Astral Perception is a sixth sense, & as such is not interpreted by the brain in the same way as any of the five primary senses. Astral "vision" is as different from vision, scent, touch, hearing, or taste as they are from each other.

It is only described as being "visual" when an Awakened attempts to convey it to a non-Awakened, as sight is the primary sense of metahumans, & thus the easiest to understand.
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 9 2008, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Dec 9 2008, 02:56 AM) *
My understanding is that Astral Perception is a sixth sense, & as such is not interpreted by the brain in the same way as any of the five primary senses. Astral "vision" is as different from vision, scent, touch, hearing, or taste as they are from each other.

It is only described as being "visual" when an Awakened attempts to convey it to a non-Awakened, as sight is the primary sense of metahumans, & thus the easiest to understand.



It has been state that living auras are bright and vibrant, it isn't properly visual but part of it is interpreted as if it was, than it also gives other type of feedback as well; if you fucus only on the "visual" part you lose most of information as assensing skill represent the ability of giving a meaning to what you feel not just what you "see".
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