Clones - there is more than the obvious use, Oh my God, she`s dead! Options

[Iota]

Ok,

I don`t know, maybe someone already came up with this idea, but:

If you want to fake your own death, e.g. to get rid of the cops or a corp you pissed off, how could they tell the diffrence if you drop your clone in a car and set it on fire?

Is it really that easy or would the cops/the corps didn`t believe in something like this and still be looking for you?

[PBTHHHHT]

Ok,

I don`t know, maybe someone already came up with this idea, but:

If you want to fake your own death, e.g. to get rid of the cops or a corp you pissed off, how could they tell the diffrence if you drop your clone in a car and set it on fire?

Is it really that easy or would the cops/the corps didn`t believe in something like this and still be looking for you?

Where did you get the clone? That's one consideration. Anybody have specialties and/or facilities in producing your clone body? Especially since we're talking about a full blown body clone instead of just parts in a jar, those may be in general done by companies for transplant stuff. Other considerations, have you gotten dental work, that would need to be done on the clone. In addition, any particular cyberwear/bioware that's known? In addition, you may have to alter your face and such because, sure you've been listed as dead. But wait, there's another person just like you? They'll catch on really quick, just because you thought of it doesn't mean they don't take that into consideration.

[TheOOB]

Where did you get the clone? That's one consideration. Anybody have specialties and/or facilities in producing your clone body? Especially since we're talking about a full blown body clone instead of just parts in a jar, those may be in general done by companies for transplant stuff. Other considerations, have you gotten dental work, that would need to be done on the clone. In addition, any particular cyberwear/bioware that's known? In addition, you may have to alter your face and such because, sure you've been listed as dead. But wait, there's another person just like you? They'll catch on really quick, just because you thought of it doesn't mean they don't take that into consideration.

Full clones aren't that hard to get, assuming you have some nuyen. In augmentation they mention that it's cheeper and easier to clone the whole person and take off the parts they want then to just clone the individual part(assuming you have a facility with full sized cloning tanks that it) because it is quite difficult to get a single part to exhibit all the traits you want(especially meta genetic traits.)

[The Jake]

Full clones aren't that hard to get, assuming you have some nuyen. In augmentation they mention that it's cheeper and easier to clone the whole person and take off the parts they want then to just clone the individual part(assuming you have a facility with full sized cloning tanks that it) because it is quite difficult to get a single part to exhibit all the traits you want(especially meta genetic traits.)

I've been buying SR4 books at a rate quicker than I can read them.

How would you deal with the memory loss between Clone A and Clone B? Any way to shore that up?

Could you have a re-occuring villain who happens to be a clone? And say the PCs kill the clone (clearly) only to see him/her crop up again?

- J.

[TheOOB]

Clones don't receive any of the originals memories. Normally you take parts from the clones and attach them to yourself, but a brain transplant *might* be possible(though high risk) I don't think augmentation has rules on that but I could be wrong.

[vipox]

It is also likely that all clones are tagged at a genetic level, in junk DNA.

[Heath Robinson]

Honestly, a dedicated forensics team could attempt to reconstruct or restore the brain matter to its predeath state and determine whether it would have been able to support life (force-grown clones lack vital neural structures and cannot survive on their own). If you do it right, this forensics team need never get close enough to your "corpse" to check this out.

[Karaden]

Clones don't receive any of the originals memories. Normally you take parts from the clones and attach them to yourself, but a brain transplant *might* be possible(though high risk) I don't think augmentation has rules on that but I could be wrong.

Given how the books talk about clones in general being unable to operate properly due to their accelerated growth and what now, I don't think a brain transplant would be particularly useful. Although transplanting your brain into a clone might be possible.. which might be what you meant in the first place. Still, absurdly high risk, but otherwise I suppose it would be possible. What exactly you've accomplished with the transplant though, I don't know though.

[The Jake]

Clones don't receive any of the originals memories. Normally you take parts from the clones and attach them to yourself, but a brain transplant *might* be possible(though high risk) I don't think augmentation has rules on that but I could be wrong.

Genetically inherited memories have been discussed in some circles. For purpose of plot, GM fiat may rule that the clones have the memories they had up to the point of cloning?

They seem to have removed headware memory from SR4 (and tactical computers while we're on the subject) but one I'd use some variation of that to state that a person has memories artificially copied across.

What about the rules for cyborgs? Instead of transplanting to a full borg, transporting it into a clone? Type O clone bodies would be possible....

One of the ideas I'm working into my campaign is a former Seraphim "training program" which utilises some of the conditioning methods they've learned from of Deus (drugs, psychotropic conditioning, UV hosts, etc) to develop a training program to build 'ultimate agents'.

In conjunction with a cloning program, this would be very, very interesting.... (fanatically loyal, expendable, highly skilled agents).

- J.

[Chrysalis]

You could just saw off your arm, put it in a car with two other bodies and blow up the car. If you do it right enough of the arm will survive to identify you as dead.

You then just get a new arm.

[Beetle]

You could just saw off your arm, put it in a car with two other bodies and blow up the car. If you do it right enough of the arm will survive to identify you as dead.

You then just get a new arm.

Not a bad way to spend 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if you make a lot of enemies and feel like taking an extended vacation.

[Chrysalis]

Not a bad way to spend 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if you make a lot of enemies and feel like taking an extended vacation.

Better than staging an elaborate rouse which fails because each organ has an identifier of being cloned. Besides not much use in saving money if you are dead.

-Chrysalis

[TheOOB]

Of course, after you do that you need to undergo some gene treatment to change your physical appearance and genetic make-up.

[Neraph]

It is also likely that all clones are tagged at a genetic level, in junk DNA.

What junk DNA? You know the more scientists learn about the genetic code, the less 'junk' DNA exists? That is, the more they learn about genetics, the more really important things they find in the 'junk' part of DNA. It's just called junk because they don't understand it yet.

Like Chaos Theory. Chaos theory is looking at a complex formula (like how a windstorm in the Sahara would affect Africa or something) and saying "There's so many variables, and we feel so lazy, we'll just guess."

[Neraph]

In a more serious and more helpful train of thought, I had worked on using a cloning facility (All you need for a clone really is like a Med Station [100,000 NY]) to clone a certain "Jango Fett", and between using a Virtual Matrix training ground and Simsense Reprogramming, I figured you'd be able to fabricate, train, and outfit 8 clones every 6-8 months for about 1.2 million nuyen (and that's just for starters. After that you have the cloning facility, the tutorsofts, and other hardware needed - no need to buy them again). I was actually planning on making a post here soon as if it were from a clonal company to one of the megas.

[Beetle]

In a more serious and more helpful train of thought, I had worked on using a cloning facility (All you need for a clone really is like a Med Station [100,000 NY]) to clone a certain "Jango Fett", and between using a Virtual Matrix training ground and Simsense Reprogramming, I figured you'd be able to fabricate, train, and outfit 8 clones every 6-8 months for about 1.2 million nuyen (and that's just for starters. After that you have the cloning facility, the tutorsofts, and other hardware needed - no need to buy them again). I was actually planning on making a post here soon as if it were from a clonal company to one of the megas.

The problem with that is that the megas have yet to create a viable clone that can survive on it's own.

[streetangelj]

Not that anyone has publicly admitted to that is... (ever seen the movie Seven Days, a bit cheesy, but it illustrates my point)

[Beetle]

Not that anyone has publicly admitted to that is... (ever seen the movie Seven Days, a bit cheesy, but it illustrates my point)

True... I suppose this is one of those points for the game master to decide. I can't say I've watched Seven Days.

[Neraph]

The problem with that is that the megas have yet to create a viable clone that can survive on it's own.

Really, beacuse the Escaped Clone positive quality tends to disagree with you. And Clonal Brain Cyborgs.

The problem isn't with cloning things; it's the learning curve. You can full-body clone something in 4 weeks (speed cloned), but it's got the mental facilities of a 4 week old. Mental potential of who you cloned (high IQ, fast learner), but only 4 weeks of life experiance.

But with advanced full-immersion simsense training grounds and simsense reprogramming, you could theorhetically pump out the clones much faster. And better yet, they'd be perfectly trained combat machines with unfailing loyalty.

[Nkari]

Of course, after you do that you need to undergo some gene treatment to change your physical appearance and genetic make-up.

If your scared of leaving your dna for something like that.. get a cyber replacement, youve allready lost the essence.. =)

[The Jake]

But with advanced full-immersion simsense training grounds and simsense reprogramming, you could theorhetically pump out the clones much faster. And better yet, they'd be perfectly trained combat machines with unfailing loyalty.

That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about doing in my campaign. Combined with psychotropic programming, IC, drugs, possibly a UV host, you can condition clones with the loyalty on par with Deus' Banded.

- J.

[Dumori]

part of me is having a spec oops based on dystopia. Using cloning tanks nanoforges and nanites one coil have semi ready clones to have a person dumped in and the gear needed added add a cortexbomb and a head link to store the consens and presto one solder made for the mission and whith loads of combat experence on death upload mend to sever via satlimk then blow the bomb. Could easily be one of the best crack defence units out there droped in where needed and cyber and such removed for next time if they live as there quick fire colne the same phyisical template could be used alowing mass producing of delta were for them. On compltion the could be placed back in to higher quality none combat clones.

[Beetle]

Really, beacuse the Escaped Clone positive quality tends to disagree with you. And Clonal Brain Cyborgs.

The problem isn't with cloning things; it's the learning curve. You can full-body clone something in 4 weeks (speed cloned), but it's got the mental facilities of a 4 week old. Mental potential of who you cloned (high IQ, fast learner), but only 4 weeks of life experiance.

But with advanced full-immersion simsense training grounds and simsense reprogramming, you could theorhetically pump out the clones much faster. And better yet, they'd be perfectly trained combat machines with unfailing loyalty.

I'm well aware of the quality from Runner's Companion. I'm referring to Augmentation where the megas have yet to acknowledge fully developed clones; ie good luck getting your hands on the tech to develop functional clones, which was my point.

[Cabral]

If your scared of leaving your dna for something like that.. get a cyber replacement, youve allready lost the essence.. =)

Losing an arm doesn't cost essence. Getting it replaced with anything but a cloned spare does.

[TheOOB]

Losing an arm doesn't cost essence. Getting it replaced with anything but a cloned spare does.

Type O limbs don't cost essence, you just have to deal with the fact that it won't look and feel exact ally like your old arm.

EDIT: Page 126 of Augmentation if you care. Cultured limbs actually don't cost a whole lot more then type O limbs, but street docs rarely have culture limbs on hand.