In Debt, copied from the main SR forum Options

[cryptoknight]

Ok RC has.

In Debt
Bonus: 5 to 30 BP
The character is indebted to a third party, usually an underworld
syndicate, large gang or corporation, chosen by the player
with gamemaster approval. For every 5 BP taken, the character
receives an extra 5,000¥ at character creation; this money can be
above and beyond the normal 50 BP cap for gear. The character
then owes her creditor that much plus another 50 percent. The
amount owed increases 10 percent every month, as compound interest.
If the character is unable to pay at least the interest amount
each month, the creditor may send someone looking for her.

Which means if you take 30BP of In Debt, you owe 45,000 to whomever with a 10% interest accruing on balance.
Generally when you want to get rid of a negative quality, you pay it off with karma, but if you manage to make say about 50,000 nuyen in your first month, conceivably, you could pay off your principal + first month's interest.

Would you still have to pay off the BP in karma? And if you didn't... and just went around with In Debt and no principal to pay interest on... what would be the impact?

[Cadmus]

A better question would be, how do you see Mission GM's inforcing the fact you owe some one something, I mean you barrow from a loan shark he's not going to call the cops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He's going to send leg breakers, and well your basic leg breaker to a shadow runner team isn't even a speed bump really, On the upside if you can get them to come after you during a job they can me a wonderful distraction, or fall guys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DWC]

A better question would be, how do you see Mission GM's inforcing the fact you owe some one something, I mean you barrow from a loan shark he's not going to call the cops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He's going to send leg breakers, and well your basic leg breaker to a shadow runner team isn't even a speed bump really, On the upside if you can get them to come after you during a job they can me a wonderful distraction, or fall guys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why would anyone who loaned a shadowrunner 40 or 50 grand send a basic legbreaker? Seems more likely that they'd send another runner with a smaller debt, who's going to jump at the chance to work it off.

[cryptoknight]

Ah but not you're going off-missions... this is the problem... trying to stay convention missions compliant with in debt as a gm can be tough.

It's why when RC came out I showed some concern about in debt since it wasn't banned.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t=0#entry714397

[Cadmus]

Why would anyone who loaned a shadowrunner 40 or 50 grand send a basic legbreaker? Seems more likely that they'd send another runner with a smaller debt, who's going to jump at the chance to work it off.

You are correct, and I agree with cryp as well, On the other hand, its a loan shark you don't have to tell him your a runner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I mean every one likes a good card game, horse race? hehe

[gryphon340]

Or use to get th runner in question to pay off the debt by doing a run for the lender.

[Aaron]

Here's the skinny on In Debt.

First, the BP bonus must be paid off in Karma (at the standard rate of 2 Karma per BP worth of quality). For the sake of ease of our poor beleaguered gamemasters, the nuyen and the Karma should be paid at the same time.

Second, the good news about the leg-breakers is that SRM03 already contains rules for leg-breakers. Gamemasters are heartily encouraged to apply those rules to PCs with the In Debt quality.

[Cadmus]

Remember their not leg breakers, Their gear delivery systems!

[cryptoknight]

Here's the skinny on In Debt.

First, the BP bonus must be paid off in Karma (at the standard rate of 2 Karma per BP worth of quality). For the sake of ease of our poor beleaguered gamemasters, the nuyen and the Karma should be paid at the same time.

Second, the good news about the leg-breakers is that SRM03 already contains rules for leg-breakers. Gamemasters are heartily encouraged to apply those rules to PCs with the In Debt quality.

That's great... when can we buy/download them?

[BishopMcQ]

CGL has not provided Release Dates for purchase or download yet. As soon as they are announced, information will be distributed on Dumpshock. In the meantime, the Missions are available to members of the Catalyst Demo team for conventions and public game days.

Please contact Aaron or I for more information.

[Wasabi]

Here's the skinny on In Debt.

First, the BP bonus must be paid off in Karma (at the standard rate of 2 Karma per BP worth of quality). For the sake of ease of our poor beleaguered gamemasters, the nuyen and the Karma should be paid at the same time.

Second, the good news about the leg-breakers is that SRM03 already contains rules for leg-breakers. Gamemasters are heartily encouraged to apply those rules to PCs with the In Debt quality.

Bumped because folks at Dragoncon were asking.

[cryptoknight]

That doesn't surprise me...

I mean seriously... if I'm a Loanshark and I make a loan to you at 30,000 nuyen and get 49,500 nuyen back to pay it off in a month... I've just made a cool 19,500 profit or 65% margin. Which means I can find somebody else to make a bigger loan to... or take the bonus cash and pocket it and make another loan, and not have to incur the cost of leg breakers.

[Cadmus]

Reading the above posts. the comments about loan sharks and legbreakers are intresting, Granted it only works rp wise, get a level 4 fake sin at char gen, use said sin and personality (nano past is wonderful) get loan from loan shark, Shadowrunner? me? na I'm an accountant with a gambling problem, then poof toss the sin. Granted this heavly depends on the type of char you play,

I mean does he go around with a gun on hip and if asked are you a runner does he say yes, or does he say no unless the question goes through a fixer he knows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DireRadiant]

Negative Qualities will always find a way.

[SaintHax]

Reading the above posts. the comments about loan sharks and legbreakers are intresting, Granted it only works rp wise, get a level 4 fake sin at char gen, use said sin and personality (nano past is wonderful) get loan from loan shark, Shadowrunner? me? na I'm an accountant with a gambling problem, then poof toss the sin. Granted this heavly depends on the type of char you play,

I mean does he go around with a gun on hip and if asked are you a runner does he say yes, or does he say no unless the question goes through a fixer he knows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you are "In Debt" at CC, then it stands to reason that the Loan Shark knows where you live at that time. At GM discretion, he may know your fake SIN, since you got it at CC also. He may also be watching you, have bugged your apartment, etc. Let's not assume that all NPC's are dumber than the players (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Seems to be a common misconception. Players are always "out smarting" the NPC's from the Runner's point, I'm sure if you were playing a Loan Shark you could be equally creative. If they have no way of finding you, they won't be loaning you the money (seriously).

[Cain]

That all depends on the GM paying attention. Since you can have dozens of GM's while playing Missions, there's a good chance you can get away without catching any flak.

[SaintHax]

That all depends on the GM paying attention. Since you can have dozens of GM's while playing Missions, there's a good chance you can get away without catching any flak.

"get away". That reminds me of cheating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Seriously, if you are taking a flaw for points, and don't plan on not getting flak b/c in SRM most GM's won't "catch you". It's cheating. I took Extended Masking, not b/c I thought the GM's would actually stop me from walking around w/ several force 4 and 6 spells Quickened on me, but it just made sense from a playing stand point.

[Cadmus]

Well its not cheating in a missions game really, its same as if you have spirit bane, (insert spirit here) I mean there are lots of Missions where you never run into spirits, and then there are a few were you run into lots,

As for the not paying attention, I don't think its that, I think its more of a matter of time, in a home game you can do what ever you like, many home games run from 4-6 hours some more, some less but if you spend 2 of those hours rping your char in a shoe store its not an issue, the group simply picks up the next game session, In missions you have 4 hours, and in those 4 hours you much compleat the story, when the story is over out side of notority ect there is no affect on your char, I mean really you could put a bullet in the president of UCAS in mission A and out side of the GM giving you more notority, in Mission B freely walk the streets, No man hunt no nada,

It comes down to the basics, Basic one, Missions games have a script, Basic two, if it dosn't make sence, it dosn't matter its in the script, basic three, you got away? you got caught? ect. its in the script (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just like a bad monster movie, Why did she open the door instead of calling the police and grabing a kitchen knife? Becouse its in the script.,


As much fun as many neg qualitys can be rp wise, there just isn't enough time in mission and tournament games to work them in 90% of the time, Remember you have 4 hours and any were from 2-6 people, 7 if the GM is nice and the players don't might less lime light time,


then again if but's and what if's where nickles I would be a rich man too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SaintHax]

Well its not cheating in a missions game really, its same as if you have spirit bane, (insert spirit here) I mean there are lots of Missions where you never run into spirits, and then there are a few were you run into lots,

That quality works exactly as intended-- I have Spirit Bane (Beasts). When we played a Denver mod and the GM stated there were two of them there-- I immediately told him about it. I got double teamed on their init (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It comes down to the basics, Basic one, Missions games have a script, Basic two, if it dosn't make sence, it dosn't matter its in the script, basic three, you got away? you got caught? ect. its in the script (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just like a bad monster movie, Why did she open the door instead of calling the police and grabing a kitchen knife? Becouse its in the script.,

That's bad GM'ing. The mods are supposed to be modules-- not scripts. Unless SRM 3.0 has changed from its initial inception this much, the GM was supposed to adhere to the mod as much as reasonable, but if it didn't make sense, you changed it. Ed De Jesus (Miami locale) is an excellent GM who often goes far off mod. Maybe too far from some tastes. But if the table has a good idea that isn't covered in a mod, he goes w/ it. You may finish totally different than any other group, but you'll have covered the key points (check offs on the story record) and not have gotten any campaign breaking gear.

If Cadmus is the GM that ran me through Denver mods early this year-- that was my major complaint about his GM'ing. So much that I'm hoping to talk Bitrunner into coming back to the Shadows to run.

[Cadmus]

If Cadmus is the GM that ran me through Denver mods early this year-- that was my major complaint about his GM'ing. So much that I'm hoping to talk Bitrunner into coming back to the Shadows to run.

*steals the bait off the hook and leaves the hook nibbling his new lunch*

nope not a missions GM, and I don't live in florida sooo havn't met ya, as well theres alot of denver i havn't run through yet, with the change in mind set from denver to newyork had I switched from my adept rigger to a former corp bodygaurd type of build (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

But enough about me, shouldn't you be arguing with Wasabi instead (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cain]

"get away". That reminds me of cheating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Seriously, if you are taking a flaw for points, and don't plan on not getting flak b/c in SRM most GM's won't "catch you". It's cheating. I took Extended Masking, not b/c I thought the GM's would actually stop me from walking around w/ several force 4 and 6 spells Quickened on me, but it just made sense from a playing stand point.

Oh, intentions are hard to judge. But seriously, in four hours, there's only so much time for highlighting individual flaws. I've never hidden a flaw in Missions, and I've never had one get spotlight time from a Missions GM. That's not cheating, that's the way it is. You just don't usually have the time to run a combat with legbreakers, on top of everything else.

[Wasabi]

Derek started each game with "I'll go around the table, is there anything I should know about your characters?"
That was way cool.

[BishopMcQ]

There are days where I feel like the grumpy parent...I'm not a grumpy parent. Those of you who have talked with me or spent time visiting at conventions know I'm generally fairly laid back and relaxed.

That said:

If someone has an issue with the way a GM ran a Mission, please bring it to either my attention or Aaron's. We'll talk with you, the GM, anyone else available, and figure out what happened and how to resolve the issue. Likewise, if you have a problem with a rule or quality, bring it to one of us, tell us why you feel the way you do, and how you would recommend fixing it.

Be Honest even in hyperbole. When making sweeping generalizations, make sure it's clear that everyone understands what you are doing. Offer examples, supporting arguments, and specific facts. Example: The Halloweeners are a group of flaming psychopaths. I say this because they are a thrill gang which regularly rides through AA and AAA neighborhoods tossing molotov cocktails at anything they see. Anyone who does that is, in my opinon, psychotic.

Keep it in your pants. Help each other get the answers that they need. If you aren't sure what the answer is, try pointing them to a book reference or shooting a PM to Aaron or I. (It works, people do it regularly when Aaron and I don't respond within the first 24 hours of a post.) Flailing around your e-peen, as if to prove how cool you are, isn't cool. This habit generally causes the opposite reaction and causes your posts to end up in the "Chicken Little" pile. When that happens, personally, I tend to ignore your post which means that if you later make a good point or need a question answered, I may not see it.

[Bull]

There are days where I feel like the grumpy parent...I'm not a grumpy parent. Those of you who have talked with me or spent time visiting at conventions know I'm generally fairly laid back and relaxed.

That said:

If someone has an issue with the way a GM ran a Mission, please bring it to either my attention or Aaron's. We'll talk with you, the GM, anyone else available, and figure out what happened and how to resolve the issue. Likewise, if you have a problem with a rule or quality, bring it to one of us, tell us why you feel the way you do, and how you would recommend fixing it.

Be Honest even in hyperbole. When making sweeping generalizations, make sure it's clear that everyone understands what you are doing. Offer examples, supporting arguments, and specific facts. Example: The Halloweeners are a group of flaming psychopaths. I say this because they are a thrill gang which regularly rides through AA and AAA neighborhoods tossing molotov cocktails at anything they see. Anyone who does that is, in my opinon, psychotic.

Keep it in your pants. Help each other get the answers that they need. If you aren't sure what the answer is, try pointing them to a book reference or shooting a PM to Aaron or I. (It works, people do it regularly when Aaron and I don't respond within the first 24 hours of a post.) Flailing around your e-peen, as if to prove how cool you are, isn't cool. This habit generally causes the opposite reaction and causes your posts to end up in the "Chicken Little" pile. When that happens, personally, I tend to ignore your post which means that if you later make a good point or need a question answered, I may not see it.

My name is Bull, and I approved this message. Play nice for the Missions Coordinators. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SaintHax]

There are days where I feel like the grumpy parent...I'm not a grumpy parent. Those of you who have talked with me or spent time visiting at conventions know I'm generally fairly laid back and relaxed.

Didn't see anything wrong yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Wonder if that means I wasn't playing nicely, and hence why I was unaware of it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)