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> Foci & Astral Projection, Does it work?
Lilt
post Jan 5 2004, 08:00 AM
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If I had a sustaining focus that was sustaining an Increase Charisma spell, then astrally projected, what happens?

Do I keep the effect of the spell?
or
Do I lose the effect of the spell?

If I lose the effect of the spell:
Does the effect return once I get back to my meatbod?
or
Does the focus deactivate and I need to cast the spell again?

I think it primarily depends on wether you can take the astral form of any foci (not only weapon foci) with you when you project, it also depends on wether you only cast the spell on your physical body or your astral body. Similar questions could be asked about taking the astral forms of other foci such as Power and Specific Spell foci with you when you project.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jan 5 2004, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE (Lilt)
I think it primarily depends on wether you can take the astral form of any foci (not only weapon foci) with you when you project, it also depends on wether you only cast the spell on your physical body or your astral body.

Can you Manabolt the body of a projecting mage?

I'd allow (almost) all Foci to be used while projecting. No idea whether that's canon, but it certainly makes sense if you can use Weapon Foci. The only one I'm not sure about is Sustaining Focus + Improved Reflexes, and Improve BOD/QUI/STR (although that won't matter much to the projecter, and I'd allow the effect to return when the projection ends).
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toturi
post Jan 5 2004, 08:10 AM
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I allow all foci and sustained spells. If not, you'll have to make special exceptions for certain spells like Astral Armour or Astral Barrier.
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Fortune
post Jan 5 2004, 08:20 AM
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As far as I know, any and all Foci accompany an Astrally Projecting mage. I don't recall canon listing any exceptions to this rule.
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hobgoblin
post Jan 5 2004, 08:21 AM
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the easyes is to say that achoring or spell sustaing ones stay with the body but the power and weapon ones (atleast the magic in them) go with the mage. this way you avoid a snakepit of exploits.

the other way to look at it is that the physical body and the astral one is connected as any damage done to the astral one will be reflected on the physical one. then you can say that the amgic kinda splits (in lack of a better term) so that if you have a armor spell sustained on the body then you allso have it sustained on the astral form. but then if someone messes with the physical foci (likesay removeing it) expect it to fail in the astral to.

it all boils down to logic, and trying to preserve it...
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Lilt
post Jan 5 2004, 08:22 AM
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I was basing the assumption that they did not follow on the fact that the ability of mages to take the astral form with him is only mentioned under weapon foci.
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hobgoblin
post Jan 5 2004, 08:36 AM
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ok now the power foci modifys the magic rating fo the user directly so there isnt mutch of a problem bringing that one along (just describe it as a extra glow on the aura with maybe a very bright spot around where the physical foci was located). the realy icky part starts with the spell sustaining one...

as for why the weapon foci is specialy talked about? it enables the user to trade in his astral combat damage for that of a weapon...
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Sphynx
post Jan 5 2004, 08:47 AM
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In my games, all foci (and non-area Sustained Spells) go with the Astrally Projecting mage.

Sphynx
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sidekick
post Jan 5 2004, 10:16 AM
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I wouldn't see why any spell in a sustaining focus wouldn't remain with the mage. It would make spells like Astral Armor nearly pointless if you couldn't (since you would be forced to cast them in the Astral Plane, most likely causing real physical damage). Remember that the astral body and the physical body are still linked magically... hence a focus in contact with one would count as in contact with the other.

Sphynx -- wouldn't sustained spells get dropped, since projecting is an exclusive action?
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Sphynx
post Jan 5 2004, 11:24 AM
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Was referring to such things as Quickening, Elementals, Allys, Foci etc.... Yes, you couldn't personally sustain a spell while projecting.

Sphynx
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Sargrak
post Jan 5 2004, 02:59 PM
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I 'd say the mana spells are going with the mage, and all sustaining focuses too. The physicals effects stay with the body.

As for manabolting the body of the astrally projecting mage, that's a good one. I'd say no, since the affected "thing" isn't there.
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RedmondLarry
post Jan 5 2004, 10:13 PM
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From the book under Astral Attributes:
QUOTE (SR3 p. 173 @ top left corner)
Modifications to your Mental Attributes from spells, cyberware, and other sources do affect the abilities of your astral form.

The astral forms of your foci and fetishes go with you into astral space. Non-magical gear stays with your physical body.
Since modifications to mental attributes from cyberware affects your astral form, then modifications from spells cast and sustained on the physical plane should do so as well.

One could even argue that physical spells, not just mana ones, should give you their bonus as they should be just as effective as cyberware. Personally, I don't think I'd allow it, as it just feels wrong.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Jan 5 2004, 11:53 PM
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What physical spells would provide any functional benefit in the astral?
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RedmondLarry
post Jan 6 2004, 12:34 AM
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I'm thinking of Increase Cybered Intelligence.
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Joker9125
post Jan 6 2004, 06:23 AM
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heres a few thoughts. If the magical part of the focui goes with the projecting mage it would make sense that the physical portion of it becomes temporarly mundane. Whut happens if the mundane part of the focui was physically removed from the body while the person was projecting? Would you lose the effect of it while projecting? or would is simply be like a mage who lost his body type deal you have so long to find the physical focui or it is destroyed. Also along these lines what happens if a mage dies while projecting? Would the focui also die because they are with him on the astral and unable to return with him to their physical forms or would they simply automatically return to their physical forms?
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Lilt
post Jan 6 2004, 06:30 AM
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To the first part: by the standard rules if a focus is removed from the character's person then it deactivates. I don't see any problem with continuing that so that if a character's foci is stolen whilst projecting the immediately deactivate thus the astral form vanishes from the astral.

As for the mage dieing, IMHO the foci would simply deactivate. If other weird stuff happened then I think it'd be in the rules.
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Zazen
post Jan 6 2004, 07:03 AM
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I let people choose which foci to take with them. I've thought quite a bit about it and I find this to be the easiest and most elegant route.
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Hasaku
post Jan 7 2004, 01:44 AM
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Not to be a nitpicker (even though I am...)

You're so close to getting it right, Joker. A lot of people here say "foci" when they really mean "focus." You, on the other hand, say " focui." At least it's closer than most :). You see, focus is the singular form. Foci is the plural form. Let's try an exercise.

Bob has a focus. Bob buys another focus. Bob now has two foci.

Thank you. This has been another lesson from the Anal Retentive School for Calling Imaginary Things By Their Proper Names.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 7 2004, 03:20 AM
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Ok Hasaku, try this one:

Bob has one virus. Bob gets another virus. What does Bob now have?

On a side note, while I don't like the implications of it most of the time, the idea of the astral forms of foci getting "lost" on the Astral is intriguing... maybe I'll have a special focus that needs its astral form tracked down and restored to be used...

~J
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RangerJoe
post Jan 7 2004, 03:49 AM
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Actually, in earlier medical parlance, Bob would have two virii. "Virii" has been dropped lately, as it has been found that latin freaks out patients. Something about the kinder, gentler face of modern medicine.

I got my players to say "focus" when they mean "focus" and not "foci" by hitting them with my GM staff (which is not a weapon focus.... yet.... now where am I going to get some orichalicum....). Adding a set of sharp antlers to the staff really sped up their progress.

It would be interesting to have some sort of "astral quest" to bond such a focus, perhaps reducing the karma cost to bond the "lost and found" focus.

This post has been edited by RangerJoe: Jan 7 2004, 03:50 AM
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Hasaku
post Jan 7 2004, 03:53 AM
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Bob has to buy a replacement deck :P

Oh, and he has two viruses according to dictionary.com, but I prefer "virii". Alas, my mini-beef was not with plural forms specifically; it was with confusing the singular and plural.

On topic: we know that the physical body still "matters" when astrally projecting, as damage manifests both ways. So you're still linked to your physical form. For that reason, I'd say the physical focus needs to be in contact with your physical body, and your astral form carries the focus's astral form, which should at least be shaped like the focus, especially for weapon foci. Take a focus from a mage's limp hands, and he'll know it instantly as its astral form disappears and reappears with its physical form. Treat the focus as you do whenever an active focus loses contact with its user.
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Prototype
post Jan 8 2004, 01:06 AM
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Damage doesn't go both ways... you can kill a mage's body whilst he's astrally projecting and it'll have no ill effect on his astral form - but he only has Essence hours to get his revenge!
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Joker9125
post Jan 8 2004, 05:01 AM
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heres an idea if your body has been killed and your running out of time why not just make a quick trip to the metaplanes to buy yourself some more time. since essence loss rules dont apply while on an astral quest.
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Fortune
post Jan 8 2004, 05:18 AM
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Don't quote me, but I seem to recall something about Astral Quests having to be specifically initiated as such, and not merely a jaunt from the Astral on a whim.

Besides, what are you buying time for? It isn't like you can contact friends or construct a new body from the Metaplanes.
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Joker9125
post Jan 8 2004, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Don't quote me, but I seem to recall something about Astral Quests having to be specifically initiated as such, and not merely a jaunt from the Astral on a whim.

Besides, what are you buying time for? It isn't like you can contact friends or construct a new body from the Metaplanes.

sorry about quoting you ;)

but im ptty sure that you ability to visit the metaplanes has something to do with you're initation grade. i wasnt thinking about having a new body made but t ats a really good idea. just visit a metaplain and dick around until you new body is ready. what is everyone's thoughts on this?
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