 A Shotgun For Your Amusement, Yet Another Silly Weapon |
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 Jan 6 2004, 04:37 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 28-October 02 Member No.: 3,512  |
A character in my group demanded an Ithaca Roadblocker for his character, and having the time, I obliged. I just thought I'd share it for anyone who was interested. Ares ASG-3 “Roadblocker” This is the most powerful commercially produced semiautomatic shotgun available today. The Roadblocker is a very large and heavy weapon, intended for use at roadblocks where it would not, presumably, be carried for extended periods. The Roadblocker uses custom anti-vehicular ammunition, and is used primarily to disable fleeing vehicles. It is available only to certified law enforcement and military organizations. The gas system is located at the front of the magazine tube, limiting the Roadblocker’s ammunition capacity to two rounds, and one in the firing chamber. Another aspect of the gas system is its counter-recoil design called “countercoil” by the manufacture. The Roadblocker is available only to certified law enforcement and military purchasers. Ares ASG-3
The Roadblocker is a large caliber weapon, and as such, incurs a +2 recoil penalty. The heavy barrel and innovative gas system of the Roadblocker effectively negate the +2 recoil penalty afforded by its heavy caliber. The custom ammunition for the Roadblocker costs 600¥ per box of 10 with a Street Index and Availability of 14/12 Days and 2 respectively. Treat the custom ammunition for this weapon as AV rounds, as per the rules on pg. 36 of the Cannon Companion. <<<Developer’s Notes This weapon is obviously based on the real life Ithaca MAG-10 “Roadblocker”. For purposes of game play for Shadowrun, I have modified the basic design I created from the Cannon Companion by borrowing from the Barret Model 121 sniper rifle. My guiding principals were; the weapon must be capable of *possibly* taking out a car in one solid shot, it must compete with Shadowrun shotguns with higher Power levels that also offer Burst Fire, it must be expensive and difficult to obtain, and it must be balanced. As such:
In addition, with clues gained in an arcane process, I decided that for roughly the equivalent of two levels of Increased Power, you could exchange the +2 Power level for and increased Damage Level. However, doing so requires the weapon uses custom ammunition, and suffer +2 for recoil. I used the rules for custom ammunition as presented for the Barret Model 121, with the following results: Whereas the Barret’s ammunition is based on standard APDS, it’s cost is roughly 2.8 times the cost for APDS. Hence, the Roadblockers ammunition is based on standard AV ammunition, so by the same logic the Roadblocker’s custom ammunition is 571.43¥, which rounded for game’s sake I decided should be 600¥. The Street index and Availability was taken as is, but reflects the fact that regardless of the particular model the weapon uses the same ammunition.>>> An Alternate Version Designed Strictly From CC Ares ASG-3 “Roadblocker” One of the most powerful commercially produced semiautomatic shotgun available today. The Roadblocker is a very large and heavy weapon, intended for use at roadblocks where it would not, presumably, be carried for extended periods. The Roadblocker uses typically uses anti-vehicular ammo, and its primary role is to quickly disable fleeing vehicles. The gas system is located at the front of the magazine tube, limiting the Roadblocker’s ammo capacity to five rounds, and one in the firing chamber. Another aspect of the gas system is its counter-recoil design called “countercoil” by the manufacture. The Roadblocker is available only to certified law enforcement and military purchasers. Ares ASG-3
Having presented this with a light heart, is there anyone who would like to offer any constructive criticisms? |
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Jan 6 2004, 05:03 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Yep, make yourself a Troll mage and saw the stock off your custom model. Then it "sounds like rock and/or roll"!!
This post has been edited by kevyn668: Jan 6 2004, 05:03 AM |
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Jan 6 2004, 05:31 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 28-October 02 Member No.: 3,512 |
:D Sawing through an intregal gas-recoil system can cause "reliability issues". :D |
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Jan 6 2004, 06:37 AM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That'd be true if the Gas Venting was in the stock, and not the barrel. :D |
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Jan 6 2004, 07:06 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 28-October 02 Member No.: 3,512 |
Ummmm. I'm not sure I follow you. Barrel shortening is common in sawed shotguns, and many shotguns do have gas-recoil systems right below their barrels, making shortening them a bad idea. Besides, barrel shortening of this weapon would ruin it because it is not intended to fire "shot" rounds. The amount of concealabilty increase for shortening a MAG-10's stock would be maybe -1, but it would be very unwieldy and dangerous, although a troll could pull it off. |
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Jan 6 2004, 07:15 AM
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#6
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's all fine and dandy, but the stock of a rifle or shotgun is the wooden (or plastic) part that fits against your shoulder. It has nothing to do with the barrel, which is at the other end of the weapon. :)
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Jan 6 2004, 07:24 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 27-May 02 Member No.: 2,776 |
read carefully and you will see he (kevyn668) said to saw off the stock - not the barrel
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Jan 6 2004, 07:49 AM
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#8
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Doesn't the stock provide RC?
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Jan 6 2004, 07:52 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not by way of Gas Venting!
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Jan 6 2004, 07:53 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
No. Welcome to the wonderful world of Wacky Ass Shadowrun Rules.
Folding stocks provide RC. Normal stocks don't. Like I said, Wacky Ass. |
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Jan 6 2004, 07:59 AM
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#11
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Unless you fit it with a Shock Pad. :) |
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Jan 6 2004, 08:13 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Which is wacky ass!
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Jan 6 2004, 10:09 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 2-December 03 Member No.: 5,871 |
I give my players RC if the gun has a stock and they use it right.
SHock pad BAH! I need no stinkin shock pad, unless its on my hands!!! mwahahahaha (zzzzzzap) OWWWW. Note to self, take shock pads off when scratching @$$ and other unmentionables. :eek: |
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Jan 6 2004, 03:30 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
yep, I said "stock". I figured, hey you're a Troll. You got the strength to soak that RC! Or is it body? Or was the body from Fields of Fire and strength is from the CC...? **shakes head** What was that about wacky ass rules?? :D I always ruled it that if you had a stock on a weapon, you got the RC. Other wise, all my chars that ever carried a weapon w/ stock would saw those babies right off!!
:rotfl: |
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Jan 6 2004, 04:50 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 28-October 02 Member No.: 3,512 |
You certainly did. And I have learned a lesson about reading and playing Madden at the same time. Sorry Kev. Rigid stocks, according to page 83 of CC, grant the 1 point recoil reduction same as a folding stock, however rifles and shotguns are specifically exempted. Does anyone know any canon rules for the effect of shortening the stock if an off-the-shelf rifle or shotgun? I'm digging through SSC and Fields of Fire, but not finding anything yet. |
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Jan 6 2004, 05:33 PM
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#16
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not canon, but I would personally just reverse the rules for adding the stock. +1 recoil, -whatever concealability.
As for the "folding stocks give RC while fixed don't". I just assume any weapon that has a stock and doesn't get RC from it to have it already factored in, hence my suggested ruling above. Some oddities like the SPAS-22 are left, but in general it's a very workable system. If the exceptions bother you so much, apply aforementioned penalty when stock isn't deployed rather than giving a bonus when it is. ~J |
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Jan 6 2004, 05:46 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-January 03 Member No.: 3,840 |
It's a shotgun... designed to take out cars? Of the moving variety? Here is the opinion of one who does not know much about guns:
A shotgun is a short range gun, ya? Cars move very fast. I guess it could be used to disable immobile vehicles... but this weapon isn't used to try and stop moving vehicles, is it? I dunno, it just seems kind of silly to me. With all the military restrictions on the gun, why not use a grenade? Or a rocket launcher, which is just as restricted and easier to fire. I think. I suspect. I actually have no idea, having never fired a rocket launcher. If I'm completely wrong, just ignore this post and move on :grinbig: |
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Jan 6 2004, 05:56 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 189 Joined: 17-December 03 From: Louisville, KY Member No.: 5,912 |
don't forget that SR shotguns use slug rounds, not shot. so hitting a moving vehicle shouldn't be any more difficult than when using other slug throwers.
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Jan 6 2004, 05:57 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
S'cool, omae. The only way to get better at multi-tasking is to practice. :)
If the car was moving toward you, like if you were at a road block, the relative speed wouldn't matter that much. I don't know the rate of fall for shot but 12 gauge slugs drop an inch for every ten feet, I believe, and I think they travel at like 200 feet per second. That should do it, IMO. Can someone back me or correct me? |
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Jan 6 2004, 06:06 PM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
StealthBanana: It is based on an actual, RL weapon that police use to stop cars in road blocks. The principle is certainly sound.
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Jan 6 2004, 08:57 PM
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#21
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
As a long-time SR2 player, in both FoF and CC, it's Strength, not Body. |
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Jan 6 2004, 09:19 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
@ tanka:
sorry. :sheepishgrin: its been a while. :) |
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Jan 6 2004, 09:23 PM
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#23
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
S'OK, it happens. I sometimes forget and have to re-read the section when I play one version for a bit too much time. |
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Jan 6 2004, 11:05 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630 |
kevyn668:
The muzzle velocity of a 12-gauge slug is between 1500 and 1800 feet per second (FPS), depending upon such things as the weight of the slug (generally around 1 oz. (437.5 grains/28.35 grams), although some are as heavy as 600 grains (1.37 oz./39 grams)) and powder charge. Also-- and no disrespect is intended here -- the Ithaca MAG-10 "Roadblocker" is chambered for the 10-gauge, 3.5" Magnum shell. Ten-gauge slugs are slightly heavier, weighing 766 grains (1.75 oz./49.6 grams). (The information comes from CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD, 7th Edition , written by Fred C. Barnes and edited by Mike Bussard (1985 by DBI Books, Inc.).) Just thought you might be interested. :) --Foreigner |
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Jan 7 2004, 12:01 AM
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#25
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Let me first apologize for my criticism here. I fear that it probably isn't as constructive as you would like it to be, in the sense that it furthers the development of the gun. Perhaps it will give you ideas on how to address the situation that the weapon was designed for.
Considering the rules of the game, I don't see much reason why anyone would buy a weapon like this when they can just buy an Enfield AS7, load it with AV ammo and burst fire at whatever they need to. It would have three bursts at 11D each, plus an extra round. The AS7 costs almost half what the ASG-3 does, it's half the weight at the same conceal rating, and it's apparently much easier to find. If the ASG-3 is supposed to be a military/law enforcement only weapon, it should probably have a legality rating of 2-K, or at least 2-F, without the possibility of acquiring a permit. The downside to the AS7 is that you do have to deal with a +3 recoil modifier per burst. Not really a big deal, IMO. As for this recoil-absorbing gas system that reduces ammunition capacity, it really wouldn't have to, as long as you made it feed from a box magazine rather than a tubular magazine. (That goes against the whole Ithaca MAG-10 thing, but...) It could work a lot like the AK107/108 in that case. Overall, I think the alternate version is better. As for disabling vehicles at roadblocks, you'd probably have better luck with a spike strip (controlled deflation device) or a system that, when run over, contacts the bottom of the vehicle and sends a massive jolt of electricity into it, shorting out the vehicle's electronics (Read: fuel injection. These things exist in reality, though they aren't very common). You could probably get both of those things for less than the cost of this shotgun. |
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