A Shotgun For Your Amusement, Yet Another Silly Weapon Options

[Kagetenshi]

Zapper strips, R3. Not very expensive, IIRC, and does lots of horrible nasty vehicle damage (SomethingD, I believe).

~J

[Fresno Bob]

On a shotgun, uncompensated recoil is doubled, so the AS7 could potentially be at +6 per burst. You can't put gas vents on shotguns, can you?

[Kagetenshi]

I believe you can; it just prevents the use of shot rounds. That's from memory, though, so it's unreliable.

~J

[Raygun]

[Fortune]

[Raygun]

I kind of wrote my own. :)

IMO, CC took guns in more of a comic-booky direction than I wanted my games to go. I didn't really want to support that kind of thing, so I never bought the book. That comes at the expense of not having acess to the latest and greatest canon rules for firearms, which really doesn't bother me. It only becomes an issue when I post here, and even then only rarely.

[kevyn668]

@ Foreigner:

Cool, thanks...I really need that :sheepishgrin: smiley.

My "statistics" came from a drunken conversation w/ a hunter friend of mine. I think he thought it was odd when I went from "Did you see her!?" to "So, whats the effective range of a shotgun firing double ought buck?" He said that he likes use slugs....

[Foreigner]

kevyn668:

No problem. :)

(Or, if you prefer, "Null sheen, Chummer." ;) )

--Foreigner

[kevyn668]

[ValleyGirlVoice]"Meh, thats sooo 2053... "[/ValleyGirlVoice]
:D

I actually always liked "Null persp, chummer" (or omae). But it was always so hard to work into my everyday language :)

This post has been edited by kevyn668: Jan 7 2004, 04:31 AM

[Foreigner]

Big Crow:

I have a suggestion.

If all your player wants to do is throw LOTS of lead or steel pellets in one direction at will, why not develop a SHADOWRUN counterpart to the 40-millimeter Buckshot rounds that our military already uses in their M-79 and M-203 (the underbarrel grenade launcher that attaches to the M-16A2 and subsequent members of that family)? (Assuming that such rounds don't already exist in SR, that is. I'm afraid that I don't have my copy of CANNON COMPANION handy at the moment.)

Talk about the Mother of All Shotguns.... :)

I once read that a 40-millimeter M-79 Buckshot round contains somewhere between TWO and THREE HUNDRED "00" (.33-caliber) pellets.

Supposedly, our military liked to use them in Vietnam against massed attacks in close cover, such as heavy brush. Loaded like that, an M-79 was essentially a shoulder-fired Claymore mine (or "M-18A1 Antipersonnel Mine", if you prefer military jargon).

Hope this helps. :)

--Foreigner

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Foreigner]

Austere Emancipator:

I admit that I was a little off on the details.

Unfortunately, the only piece of information that I have which mentions the specifications of a Claymore mine is my copy of Stephen Hunter's TIME TO HUNT, which is a work of fiction.

Like most of his stuff, it is QUITE well-researched, but I wasn't certain if he had all of the information that he published regarding the specifications of the M-18A1 Antipersonnel Mine and the M-57 Hand Firing Device exactly right.

I'm not all that familiar with Vietnam-era weapons, as I was only a child at the time.

--Foreigner

[Austere Emancipa...]

I wasn't even born when Vietnam was going on. Not for, what, 7 years after it was over.

And I'm not saying a 40mm shot round isn't effective. I'm sure it has quite a bit of "stopping power". It's just that a Claymore (and other similar "cone"-mines) have insane amounts of the same. They can level whole squads men at 50+ meters. At under 10 meters, they tear people apart. A shoulder-fired weapon just can't handle that kind of power.

And it was an interesting idea with the 40mm shot round. I hadn't heard of that before. I'm really looking forward to hearing from someone the weights (and thus energies) involved in firing a 40mm HV round, because a 40mm HV shotgun ought to be a great Troll weapon if there ever was one.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 7 2004, 04:31 PM

[Raygun]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Raygun, do you know how much the projectile in any of the standard 40mm HV rounds (M383/M384/M430) weigh? They're probably pretty close to the LV variants, so the weights of M433 or M406 projectiles would be useful too.

[Foreigner]

Raygun:

I stand (okay, SIT :) ) corrected.

I should've known that the source I remembered (1998's CAIN, by James Byron Huggins) was wrong.

Among several weapons-related errors made by the author were the following:

(1) His claim that the .45 ACP variant of the Federal Hydra-Shok round fired the same 158-grain inverted hollowbase Wadcutter projectile as the .38 Special version;

(2) That .300 Winchester Magnum sniper rifles had an accurate/effective range of over two thousand meters; and

(3) He also couldn't seem to tell the difference between a Franchi SPAS-12 and the South African-made Striker-12. He referred to the SPAS-12 repeatedly in print, but went on to say that the weapon fed from a revolving drum (which the Striker 12 has), rather than a tubular magazine (which the SPAS-12 has).

A good book otherwise, but the guy should have really checked out his facts before submitting the manuscript to the publisher.

And *I* should have known better than to use information I remembered from reading it as a basis for my argument... :spin:

--Foreigner

[Req]

[Kagetenshi]

It is indeed.

~J

[Foreigner]

Whoops!

Sorry, my bad! Guess I submitted the post too quickly...

--Foreigner

[Austere Emancipa...]

Someone really ought to teach people to use Google. Google is your friend. When you're not sure about something, Google it. If you are sure about something, Google it just for the principle. If in doubt, Google. With something as brilliant around as Google, I just can't understand how mistakes as silly as that (Franchi SPAS-12 feeding from a revolving drum or .300WinMags having accurate ranges beyond 2km) can find their way into novels people are supposed to pay money for.

Just watched Blade II. Had a slight laughing fit at the point where Whistler gives a vampire the pump-action shotgun with the silver spikes glued on and says something about it being a hypervelocity stake gun, "it fires silver stakes at 6,000 fps". Muzzle energy around 335kJ/250k ft-lbs assuming 100g/.22lbs per stake -- a nice weapon for busting tanks with. :P

[Req]

Yeah, well, the biologist in me positively cringed at most of Blade and Blade II. Hmm, the vampires are all Wu Tang-Shaolin ninja hard because they've got binucleated red blood cells? Last time I checked there was a reason that our RBCs don't have any nuclei at all - more room for hemoglobin, which is after all the whole point of RBCs. So since the vampires are unable to deliver oxygen to their body effectively, they kick ass? Yeah. Righty-o.

Oh, oh, and EDTA makes them explode. Great. We use it for cell culture all the time; I've got tens of liters in my lab storeroom. If the vampires ever invade, my lab will own them, no questions asked.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Since the whole movie is about vampires and vampires are always silly, it doesn't surprise me that the vampires are silly in that movie too. However, just because the world has silly vampires in it doesn't mean it has to have silly guns too. Although, using only Hollywood movies as the test group, it would seem that the injection of vampires into any world automatically makes that world's firearms become whacky.

It's also pretty odd that vampires are supposed to be bad-ass when the slightest wounds caused by silver are so lethal to them -- far more lethal than ordinary bullet wounds are to humans. Considering how extremely easy it is for anyone to manufacture large amounts of silver bullets cheap, vampires would be in serious trouble in the modern world.

[Kagetenshi]

Well, they do have to identify the need for the bullets before they make them, but otherwise yeah.

~J

[Austere Emancipa...]

How hard could that possibly be, with hundreds of thousands of vampires running rampant on the streets, feeding on any bugger who doesn't have the wits to stay out of the gothic-looking areas of the city at night?

Extra points for the people in charge of the Vampire Nation security, however, for getting all their men HK G36Ks and FN P90s. I wonder how long it takes before FN F-2000s start popping up in Hollywood movies, and then how long before OICWs...

[Siege]

Feh.

Blade was good, Blade 2 just started bad and went to worse. Although I gotta admit, the mouth-splitting vampire was pretty slick.

-Siege