Mages and jobs, You are either with us or against us Options

[masterofm]

I was just thinking that mages no matter how much they are a screw up, or are not extremely bad ass at what they do will pretty much always have a job. You might have to learn a spell, or have the people use your watcher spirits, or your bound spirits are doing some kind of task, but lets face it mages are too valuable of a resource to not be working for a company. Mages can be blacklisted from working, but one would think that a high force mage (magic 4+) that is not working for a corporation would set off the shadowrunner warning bells.

In the end I was thinking that it would strike me that mages would actually get hassled more then any other type of runner if they didn't have a SIN, because in the end even a magic 1 mage is useful.

[Hagga]

Is there a chart running around for magicians in terms of sheer power? OFficial or otherwise? You know, "1: Desirability, low. Do not attempt to forcibly obtain." Etc.

[Cadmus]

Well normal 3 is considered normal for people that do what ever they do for a living, figure maybe a lot of lvl 1 and 2 mages/adepts in the world, a bit less at 3 and 4, with 5 or 6 being rare for mages maybe more commen for adepts,

[masterofm]

And having a high powered mage without a SIN and a job I think would make anyone wonder if they are not working what are they doing? The most common answer is probably running in the shadows.... if not something much much worse.

[Sir_Psycho]

I was just thinking that mages no matter how much they are a screw up, or are not extremely bad ass at what they do will pretty much always have a job. You might have to learn a spell, or have the people use your watcher spirits, or your bound spirits are doing some kind of task, but lets face it mages are too valuable of a resource to not be working for a company. Mages can be blacklisted from working, but one would think that a high force mage (magic 4+) that is not working for a corporation would set off the shadowrunner warning bells.

In the end I was thinking that it would strike me that mages would actually get hassled more then any other type of runner if they didn't have a SIN, because in the end even a magic 1 mage is useful.

That does sound amusing. "Those corporate recruitment fraggers keep trying to steal our mage every time we go out for a beer!"

Something to remember is that there are academic magicians, so your fake SIN could list you as a lecturer at a university or smaller community college or something. A student is also a good cover.

Also to consider, many mages would find corporate control of their abilities stifling, and while being awakened does get your foot in the door at a corp, it also gives you the opportunity to have freedom not necessarily afforded to the average mundane. You can make some good money by being a talismonger/enchanter. A private investigator is also a independent profession where magic is a big edge. There's also a market for magicians in the entertainment industry, whether you're doing special effects for a corp sponsored theatre show, Karl the Kombatmage, Neal The Ork Barbarian, or you could freelance, using your talents to entertain at parties and clubs. Sure, the biggest agents are corpers, but you're trading your freedom for a salary. Then there's medicinal and therepeutic professions. You could be a magical masseuse if you want.

I've said this before, but I reckon most magical security guards are the douchebag fratboys who got into university on magical scholarships, spent their time drinking from kegs and banging sorority girls, and then went into magical security when they didn't get the grades to go into the higher paying R&D divisions.

[KCKitsune]

I've said this before, but I reckon most magical security guards are the douchebag fratboys who got into university on magical scholarships, spent their time drinking from kegs and banging sorority girls, and then went into magical security when they didn't get the grades to go into the higher paying R&D divisions.

Or they're the type that likes danger... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I know that might sound stupid, but there are all kinds in a SR world.

[Browncoatone]

Most of my mages over the years were moonlighters. Maybe they were a licensed practitioner that ran a small magic boutique, a Rent-A-Pentacle (sorta like a modern day rent a dark-room for photographers) or perhaps a banishing service (for those pesky paranormal problems) by day but occasionally walked the darkside for extra cash/karma.

The whole idea that some ork with the gift is hanging around some street gang because he just can't get work cuz the Elf is keep'n him down never sat well with me. Even minor magic is too useful and rare to be sitting on the bench and who wants a out-of-work mage thinking about how to apply his art to pay the bills? Nobody- especially the powers that be, thus any magic user should be able to get a SIN easy. If a mage doesn't have a job, it's not because he doesn't have the opportunity.

[The Jake]

I remember reading that magicians are supposed to have permits and licenses and the like... but I can't recall if this is covered in the BBB. I thought they just applied to arms and equipment.

Can anyone confirm/deny that?

- J.

[Sir_Psycho]

I wouldn't know where to find a page reference for this, but with that in mind, I'm pretty sure to be a "legal" mage you need a license for every spell you know.

[TheOOB]

Awakened characters have to have their talent registered on their SIN(though many manage to conceal it for years, esp with masking). UCAS law is horribly dysfunctional when it comes to magic. Forumlas for combat spells, mental manipulations, and other spells are restricted at best sometimes forbidden, but there is no way to really regulate them and no way to conclusively prove someone knows an illegal spell(beyond witness testimony). About the only solid law that exists is that any crime committed with the aid of magic is considered pre-meditated, and evidence gained through mental manipulation is not admissible in court.

There are licenses for magic use (combat spells in particular), but it's hard to say exactally what they mean. UCAS law is a mess concerning magic, and way behind the curve, which means that the opinions of the arresting officer, judge, and jury in a court case are all very strong factors in magical cases, congress just isn't able to make good laws governing something they cant understand.

[KCKitsune]

I wouldn't know where to find a page reference for this, but with that in mind, I'm pretty sure to be a "legal" mage you need a license for every spell you know.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) That's crazy! I know that to be legal you have to be registered, but to have EVERY spell licensed as well... I don't know how they would go about doing that.

[TheOOB]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) That's crazy! I know that to be legal you have to be registered, but to have EVERY spell licensed as well... I don't know how they would go about doing that.

They can't, and that's the point.

[masterofm]

You can, but you have to be part of the system. There are also reasons why people do personal extractions. Mages are valuable assets and getting them away from their enslaved system and into yours is always a good idea. I would think that capturing a street mage and doing the same thing would probably be pretty common especially at high force. The problem with running under the radar and being a mage is that everyone knows it. Setting up a stall and being a mage even if you have a fake SIN will probably still present a danger in a world where magic is still highly prized. Not being part of the system is a problem and even being part of the system does not mean you are safe. Flashing a fake SIN saying you work for Ares might only get you so far if you are magic 6 + mage and they know it. Eventually a fake SIN can fall through if someone decides to tail you to find out that is not your real story (and I think following a mage of that level is always a good idea.)

[Sir_Psycho]

If some guy gets fried with a powerbolt over a parking dispute, and the forensic magician records the aura and spell when he assenses the crime scene, he could. If the dead guy is holding a shotgun, the mage might plead self defense, but if that mage doesn't have a license for the powerbolt spell, he's in a whole different world of trouble.

[Dakka Dakka]

Which Aura can he assense? The victim is dead so he has no aura and the mage who did it is not present. Even if he were, it would not help the investigator. He could find out that he is a magician with a magic attribute of X. But that is it.
The Investigator could also assense the signature of the spell on the victim, but even with 5+ successes he could not say who did it. Only if he assensed a spell he knew to be cast by a certain mage could he verify if those two were cast by the same person. Signatures work like fingerprints, with the exception, that the 5th Amendment probably forbids to force a mage to cast a spell so that his signature can be verified.

[Browncoatone]

Signatures work like fingerprints, with the exception, that the 5th Amendment probably forbids to force a mage to cast a spell so that his signature can be verified.

Maybe, maybe not. I would think that spell signatures would be not unlike DNA samples, where a court order could be obtained to force the issue.

Also keep in mind if you're asked to comply voluntarily for a means of identification and you decline you just made yourself suspect number one.

[Hagga]

I remember reading that magicians are supposed to have permits and licenses and the like... but I can't recall if this is covered in the BBB. I thought they just applied to arms and equipment.

Can anyone confirm/deny that?

- J.

Someone posted this a while back:
http://evenmere.org/~bts/SR/sr3permits.html
And in the BBB, all spells bar combat spells are listed restricted, combat being forbidden. That means licenses.

[Dakka Dakka]

Maybe, maybe not. I would think that spell signatures would be not unlike DNA samples, where a court order could be obtained to force the issue.

But the difference between the two is that obtaining a DNA Sample can be done without the cooperation of the accused. To verify a signature the accused has to cast a spell himself.

Also keep in mind if you're asked to comply voluntarily for a means of identification and you decline you just made yourself suspect number one.

True, but suspicion does not mean proven guilt.

As for the licenses, the BBB does not say if one license for being a magician is enough or if you have to have a license for each spell. The same goes for firearms.

[Cadmus]

ah but what about spirits? Why no officer I didn't cast a spell, He had a shot gun and this large rock sat on him.

[Dakka Dakka]

Yup, you don't even have to erase the signatures of your spirits. They are not traceable to you.

[Browncoatone]

To verify a signature the accused has to cast a spell himself.

Incorrect:

Foci and other magical items (like magical lodges) always contain the astral signature of their owner (or owners).SR4 pg#182

Provided your magician never casts another spell and doesn't have any magical equipment you might be able to avoid getting identified.

Yup, you don't even have to erase the signatures of your spirits. They are not traceable to you.

Also incorrect:

spirits are linked to their masters...Awakened entities who are aware of these links can follow them
and track them through the astral plane back to their sources. SR4 pg#185

Basically anything you do magically is traceable by the awakened. You can mask your signature, even change your signature, but you still leave a signature.

[darthmord]

Unless you do a magical wipedown after the doing the deed.

[DireRadiant]

If some guy gets fried with a powerbolt over a parking dispute, and the forensic magician records the aura and spell when he assenses the crime scene, he could. If the dead guy is holding a shotgun, the mage might plead self defense, but if that mage doesn't have a license for the powerbolt spell, he's in a whole different world of trouble.

How does the forensic magician do this "records the aura" exactly?

I can understand that if that specific forensic magician personally encounters that same aura and does a successful Memory Test that they might be able to make that match, but otherwise, how does it happen? I can think of a few things to help, but there isn't a magical equivalent of the Lone Star Top Ten most wanted poster to pass around.

[Dakka Dakka]

You are correct about about foci and lodges, i forgot about them, but the link between summoner and spirit exists only as long as the spirit is in the service of the magician. And the spirit only leaves its own signature, not that of the magician. An occult investigator could of course try to track down a spirit on it's metaplane and ask it but that would probably be like searching for a needle in a haystack. Moreover not all courts allow testimonies of non-metahuman entities.

@DireRadiant: there is an Aura Camera in the Arsenal.

[DireRadiant]

@DireRadiant: there is an Aura Camera in the Arsenal.

Awesome, thanks! Quicksilver Mana Sensitive Film Camera! P. 67. Nice.

But still not very easy and takes a lot of effort. Base +2 threshold to Assensing tests to begin with for matches.