On Grenades, or how to use them in SR Options

[Draco18s]

Dear lord, you broke shadowrun.

[Speed Wraith]

Could try the AT-43 thing and have the blast radius simply increase by the number of successful hits on the attack.

[Rad]

Meh, my monofilament-bola-with-grenades-for-weights launcher was full auto. I scrapped the design when I realized arsenal stated that additional grenades only add +1 DV, so a full-auto grenade launcher just gives you +10 DV on a narrow burst, with the same blast radius, by raw.

Although, since blast radius is a function of the damage code on some grenades, that would give you an extra 5-10 meters.

[Degausser]

Moving a bit back to the main topic (though the monofilimant grenade bolos did make me laugh) as why people don't use grenades. Here are some reasons to avoid grenades, for both the side of the NPC, and from the PCs.

1) They are expensive. A normal bullet costs 2 nuyen. An EX Explosive bullet costs 10. A grenade costs 30 or 45, making them a much more valuable commodity. It may not seem like a big difference on the small scale, but you may end up breaking the bank in the long run.

2) They cause collateral damage. Runners can forget about capturing the target alive, or retrieving the data. Corp guys can forget about interrogations or retrieving stolen property, plus they will damage their own premises.

3) They are . . . hard to miss. If you infiltrate Megacorp a, you can get by without firing a shot, or by only firing silenced/supressed shots. Even if the gun isn't silenced, a gunshot ringing out through the neighborhood won't automatically clue people in to your exact location. Your GENERAL location, sure, but not your exact location. Grenades are far less . . . subtle. Same thing with assassins/black ops guys you may be up against.

4)Skills. Let's face it, most security guards are going to have the pistols skill. Most mages will cast spells, most Spec Ops teams will have the automatics skill. In the latter half of the 21st century, the throwing skill isn't usually part of combat training, and neither is the Heavy Weapons skill. Sure, you can learn them, but they are far less common than, say, shooting a gun. So using grenades is less common, as you'd have to default.

[AllTheNothing]

Moving a bit back to the main topic (though the monofilimant grenade bolos did make me laugh) as why people don't use grenades. Here are some reasons to avoid grenades, for both the side of the NPC, and from the PCs.

1) They are expensive. A normal bullet costs 2 nuyen. An EX Explosive bullet costs 10. A grenade costs 30 or 45, making them a much more valuable commodity. It may not seem like a big difference on the small scale, but you may end up breaking the bank in the long run.

2) They cause collateral damage. Runners can forget about capturing the target alive, or retrieving the data. Corp guys can forget about interrogations or retrieving stolen property, plus they will damage their own premises.

3) They are . . . hard to miss. If you infiltrate Megacorp a, you can get by without firing a shot, or by only firing silenced/supressed shots. Even if the gun isn't silenced, a gunshot ringing out through the neighborhood won't automatically clue people in to your exact location. Your GENERAL location, sure, but not your exact location. Grenades are far less . . . subtle. Same thing with assassins/black ops guys you may be up against.

4)Skills. Let's face it, most security guards are going to have the pistols skill. Most mages will cast spells, most Spec Ops teams will have the automatics skill. In the latter half of the 21st century, the throwing skill isn't usually part of combat training, and neither is the Heavy Weapons skill. Sure, you can learn them, but they are far less common than, say, shooting a gun. So using grenades is less common, as you'd have to default.

I think that granades are still in use in the 2070s, for a few simple reason:

1) Mages are rare and most of them aren't too keen about putting their lives on the line when they can have an excelent wage doing a safe job.

2) If the mage goes down and you need that fireball having some grunt with granades is usefull.

3) Granades can be trown to the other side of a wall, behind a corner, or reach places out of the line of sight.

4) Not all the granades are meant to cause harm, splash granades loaded with freeze foam are a wonderfull tool for delying opposition.

5) Granades can be used to create traps.

[The Neutronium A...]

3) They are . . . hard to miss. If you infiltrate Megacorp a, you can get by without firing a shot, or by only firing silenced/supressed shots. Even if the gun isn't silenced, a gunshot ringing out through the neighborhood won't automatically clue people in to your exact location. Your GENERAL location, sure, but not your exact location. Grenades are far less . . . subtle. Same thing with assassins/black ops guys you may be up against.

Even today we have technology that can use mics to pick out the sound of a gunshot and, through sound triangulation and CCTV search locate the precise location the shot originated from. By 2070 that's going to be a very mature technology and any gunshot inside a facility or reasonable residential area will be pinpointed very quickly. Assuming of curse that the groups hacker hasn't taken care of the security loop, that is.

[Degausser]

Even today we have technology that can use mics to pick out the sound of a gunshot and, through sound triangulation and CCTV search locate the precise location the shot originated from. By 2070 that's going to be a very mature technology and any gunshot inside a facility or reasonable residential area will be pinpointed very quickly. Assuming of curse that the groups hacker hasn't taken care of the security loop, that is.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was:

You can be a subtle and sneaky firing silenced shots (I am assuming silencers can baffle the detectors, as that technology would have advanced as well.) Also, if you are out in the open, or in an apt building or in an alleyway for example, you can fire a normal shot and that won't immediatly clue the residents (and thus, lone star) to your exact location.

[The Neutronium A...]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was:

You can be a subtle and sneaky firing silenced shots (I am assuming silencers can baffle the detectors, as that technology would have advanced as well.)

I'm sure that supressors will reduce the level of noise sufficiently. Although by 2070 I suspecy mic technology will be sufficiently advanced to cope in many situations.

Also, if you are out in the open, or in an apt building or in an alleyway for example, you can fire a normal shot and that won't immediatly clue the residents (and thus, lone star) to your exact location.

In the open is where these systems work best since they can get the best triangulation on the sound source. This site gives an idea of what the systems we have now are capable of. Any team engaging in gun play in the open can expect the local constabulary to be well aware of what's going on. In fact they'll probably know how many guns are being fired and what general type the are, allowing the dispatcher to send the most appropriate units to respond*.

I'm sure that some residential buildings will have similar devices fitted as part of the general alarm system but you're right, inside buildings a gun shot is likely to be more discrete than a grenade.

*Thus allowing GMs to spring appropriately armed and armoured teams on runners who are carving up the streets and have a good excuse for doing so.

[Fix-it]

speaking of hand grenades. I found this to be rather interesting:

DM-51 External View

DM-51 internal Diagram

it's a modern hand grenade that uses an optional fragmentation jacket, enabling you to use it for offense or defense, and reducing the number of grenades you need to carry. the Germans did something similar with their famous potato masher stick grenades (this design was later copied by the Russians). I'm glad to see that at least one of the members of NATO is using their brains, as opposed to following the US blindly.

another neat feature of this grenade is the ability to stack them atop one another to create a cylindrical charge.

[kzt]

Those have been done for years. My ancient copy of Brassley's shows several types of these.