Rather Silly Questions, Help needed Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[BnF95]

Okay, in our game yesterday a couple of situations came up.

Situation #1
My players hit a little snag when their Troll Street Sam went down (due to a series of improbably bad rolls to the point where even after all 4 edge was spent by the PC, the troll still went down to pretty much almost dead and unconscious ... from a sniper round). The other PCs wanted to carry him off, however, the two other strong arms of the party (twin Ork street sams) were covering the party so the remaining 5 PCs (Face/Infiltrator STR 2; Hacker/Rigger STR 2; Shaman STR 2; Hacker/Infiltrator STR 2; and Face/Investigator STR 3) tried to carry him. Looking at the Troll street sam's sheet, his weight was listed at 350kg. However, that's when I noticed that his bone density augmentation 4, his dermal sheathing, and the rest of his strapped on gear would (and should) add to quite a bit of weight.

Question: What the heck would the combined carrying capacity of those 5 (averages at 2 STR) be and what the heck is the weight of the troll (sans gear assuming they cut it all off)?

The solution I used was that they could drag him off at a movement rate of 1 meter per turn. I'm not happy with it, and neither are my players.

Situation #2
The two hackers (for some really strange reason) decided that after downloading the paydata they were supposed to "retrieve" from the target company, that they'd ... browse for more. The data node they were in also had some details on some hanky panky by a corp big-wig (VP of an AA corp) that was being utilized by his competitor to pressure him into dropping his company's bid against the target company (not connected with the run at the time).

The two decided to blackmail the gent, by sending him copies via email ... again, for an unknown reason, they decided to do it directly from the team's hideout. I decided that the VP would hire a runner team to ... eliminate the info. So when he contacted his fixer, guess whom the fixer decided to use to trace the two hackers and ... silence them. Yup the rest of the team (actually, the 2 faces were the only ones who met with the client, the rest of the team almost always stays out of sight as backup).

Now this is not even close to linked to their current run (it was supposed to be the backdrop for another run a few game weeks down the road), so we ended the game as Mr. "Johnson" gave their offer, to give the PCs a chance to think about what they were going to do.

Question: Should I GM fiat it so that the two hackers didn't get the paydata?

[Cain]

Question: Should I GM fiat it so that the two hackers didn't get the paydata?

Hell, no! This could be a lot of fun to play out. Let it run, and see what happens. If things go sour, you're early enough in the campaign that restarting won't be painful. Otherwise, a little bit of controlled PvP can be a lot of fun.

[BnF95]

Hell, no! This could be a lot of fun to play out. Let it run, and see what happens. If things go sour, you're early enough in the campaign that restarting won't be painful. Otherwise, a little bit of controlled PvP can be a lot of fun.

Early enough in the campaign? We've been playing this campaign for about a year now. Though admittedly, most of the characters are new since only the Face/Infiltrator is an original character, the rest having died along the way. Oh well, the two hackers really should pay the price for their actions I suppose.

[Riley37]

There is a possible win-win outcome. The faces tell the hackers that they can get some money, if they're willing to drop the blackmail. If the hackers agree, the faces assure Mr. Johnson "The situation has been resolved, you won't hear from those people ever again." Further evidence can be fabricated as needed; but the key thing is making that a true statement - that the blackmailers won't bug him. When Mr. Johnson pays, the faces give the hackers a cut.

The hackers also get told, bluntly, that when a hit team is the cheaper and more reliable method of getting the desired result, people tend to pay for a hit team; and that's a limiting factor on the possible payoff from any other deals. Also that they'd be more impressive hackers if they took countermeasures against getting traced.

As for dragging the troll: not a bad ruling off the cuff. Lifting rules are on SR4 p. 130. All characters involved in moving the troll could make STR+BOD tests. I dunno if those rules have been tested against examples, eg if they yield results consistent with what weak people, ordinary people, athletes and Olympic weightlifters can actually do. A troll with gear might weigh comparable to a loaded coffin, and six pallbearers can usually move at a walk while carrying a coffin.

[Cain]

Early enough in the campaign? We've been playing this campaign for about a year now. Though admittedly, most of the characters are new since only the Face/Infiltrator is an original character, the rest having died along the way. Oh well, the two hackers really should pay the price for their actions I suppose.

My apologies, but the point is that starting er won't kill your campaign.

[BnF95]

My apologies, but the point is that starting er won't kill your campaign.

No worries, I agree actually.

[TheOOB]

Shadowrun is a lethal game of no take backs. Explain to the players on the first run that characters will die and that that they have to live with that. Shadowrunning isn't the safest profession.

[jesusofthemonkey...]

The hacker situation sounds like a lot of fun; it kind of reminds me of the movie Snatch in that its a little coincidence that makes the overall story more impressive (and your hackers kind of remind me of the 2 dumb pawn shop owners that robbed the bookie in said movie). There are quite a few ways ways the hackers can handle the situation, depending on the group of people they're running with. If I was one of the hackers I'd try to buy the team off with the promise of a favor down the line, which can be more valuable than the paycheck the VP is offering

There is also the added drama of if the face/sammie is loyal to the team or loyal to the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . Sure you "can't trust anyone in the shadows", but if I'm a sammie I might think twice about capping a team member as it tends to attract the wrong kind of attention.

All and all, good situation. Sounds like a game I would love to play in.

[Draco18s]

Hell, no! This could be a lot of fun to play out. Let it run, and see what happens. If things go sour, you're early enough in the campaign that restarting won't be painful. Otherwise, a little bit of controlled PvP can be a lot of fun.

Oh yes. Lots of fun. A previous game of mine we were hired to take a hit out....on ourselves. The Johnson didn't know who he was hiring (our public awareness wasn't high enough...yet) but did know who needed to be dead.

We took the job.

We did the job.

We got paid.

We laughed like hyenas about the solution: make-up + bums + video editing.

[AllTheNothing]

Okay, in our game yesterday a couple of situations came up.

Situation #1
My players hit a little snag when their Troll Street Sam went down (due to a series of improbably bad rolls to the point where even after all 4 edge was spent by the PC, the troll still went down to pretty much almost dead and unconscious ... from a sniper round). The other PCs wanted to carry him off, however, the two other strong arms of the party (twin Ork street sams) were covering the party so the remaining 5 PCs (Face/Infiltrator STR 2; Hacker/Rigger STR 2; Shaman STR 2; Hacker/Infiltrator STR 2; and Face/Investigator STR 3) tried to carry him. Looking at the Troll street sam's sheet, his weight was listed at 350kg. However, that's when I noticed that his bone density augmentation 4, his dermal sheathing, and the rest of his strapped on gear would (and should) add to quite a bit of weight.

Question: What the heck would the combined carrying capacity of those 5 (averages at 2 STR) be and what the heck is the weight of the troll (sans gear assuming they cut it all off)?

The solution I used was that they could drag him off at a movement rate of 1 meter per turn. I'm not happy with it, and neither are my players.

Is the shaman able to summon a spirit? Could the rigger use a drone? Couldn't the shaman use Stabilize spell and stim patches? A trauma patch followed by a stim patch?
Than runners are survivors, if they can't save him at least they can save themselves.

[AllTheNothing]

Oh yes. Lots of fun. A previous game of mine we were hired to take a hit out....on ourselves. The Johnson didn't know who he was hiring (our public awareness wasn't high enough...yet) but did know who needed to be dead.

We took the job.

We did the job.

We got paid.

We laughed like hyenas about the solution: make-up + bums + video editing.

Than spend the moneys to change identity, seriously having a contract on your head is bad enough, being hired to do the job is a blessing, it gives you a warning and if pulled off right can cover your change of identity, but if discovered could make the things much worse.

[Draco18s]

Than spend the moneys to change identity, seriously having a contract on your head is bad enough, being hired to do the job is a blessing, it gives you a warning and if pulled off right can cover your change of identity, but if discovered could make the things much worse.

Oh, we were asked to take out "the shadowrunner team known as the Stray Dogs" by the corp we'd been harassing for most of the campaign. They'd tried to kill us twice before (one of those ended in a game of racket ball...using grenades (having not realized that "impact" explosions were an option so the GM decided that they went off one initiative pass after shot/thrown)). Plus none of us had real SINs, so new identities were only a couple thousand creds away.

[InfinityzeN]

Most grenades are not impact detonated.

[Draco18s]

Most grenades are not impact detonated.

That's probably how Grenade Racketball started, TBH. It was back when Core had just come out, so whatever the guy had they weren't impact, but the book didn't indicate how long the timer was or if it was User Customizable.

[InfinityzeN]

Default grenade is 3~5 seconds depending on country made. The "Pineapple" used by the US military is a 5 second for example. I use one combat round from release, unless the person 'cooks' the grenade before throwing it. An easy way to do it is give the grenade 3IP for counting, let it be set from 2~10 passes (you do count the one it was thrown in), and go from there. Or on the pass it was thrown, the next round.

This is done by pulling the pin, releasing the spoon, and holding the grenade while it is live and armed to a certain count. If you do this to a 5 second grenade, count "Thousand One, Thousand Two, Thousand Three" and throw, it will blow about 2 seconds later.

[Glyph]

SR4 grenades can be used with a timer, set to go off on impact, or discharged by wireless link. Mini-grenades discharge on impact, unless you have an airburst link, which lets them explode in mid-air when they have reached the target.

The wireless link offers lots of booby trap potential, but also raises the potential of an enemy hacker blowing you up with your own grenades. I would imagine that, just like shadowrunners tend to use skinlinks with their firearms, their grenades will tend to have their wireless settings turned off.

[Draco18s]

Reminds me that one of my GM's favorite character concepts was a throwing adept who would bean a guy with a grenade (then the grenade goes off), effectively getting extra damage.

[AllTheNothing]

Reminds me that one of my GM's favorite character concepts was a throwing adept who would bean a guy with a grenade (then the grenade goes off), effectively getting extra damage.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) ..... Sorry I'm not native to this lenguage; what would the adept do?

[Draco18s]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) ..... Sorry I'm not native to this lenguage; what would the adept do?

Throw the grenade, hit the guy in the head with it, then the have the grenade time to explode just after the impact.

"Bean" is an English (American?) slang term for "to hit."

[InfinityzeN]

The adept in question would be a Thrown Mastery adept. Tweaked to throw anything and do a lot of damage. So it throws his nice metal rock (grenade) and hits the target, causing a lot of damage. The grenade then explodes, causing more damage.

[InfinityzeN]

Throw the grenade, hit the guy in the head with it, then the have the grenade time to explode just after the impact.

"Bean" is an English (American?) slang term for "to hit."

Actually have the grenade explode on impact, since that is an option.

[Draco18s]

Actually have the grenade explode on impact, since that is an option.

True, but it sounds better and makes sense why there are two damages being inflicted if there's a slight delay.

[AllTheNothing]

Throw the grenade, hit the guy in the head with it, then the have the grenade time to explode just after the impact.

"Bean" is an English (American?) slang term for "to hit."

Ok, I think I get it now.
My thanks.

The adept in question would be a Thrown Mastery adept. Tweaked to throw anything and do a lot of damage. So it throws his nice metal rock (grenade) and hits the target, causing a lot of damage. The grenade then explodes, causing more damage.

It seems a good idea.

True, but it sounds better and makes sense why there are two damages being inflicted if there's a slight delay.

just set it to detonate 0,25 sec after the impact.

[Beetle]

Regarding dragging the 350kg(771lb) Troll a meter every three seconds with five average Joes is actually fairly impressive, even without the added weight from the Trolls modifications and gear. The movement rates in Shadowrun are freaking broken if you really look at them and figure human/elf/ork walking rate is roughly the equivalent of 3.33 meters a second/10.9 feet per second/ 7.45mph. Sure, 1m per combat turn seems painfully slow by comparison, but given the variables it seems a touch fast to me.

Hell, have you tried dragging one of your buddys around when he's passed out from drinking too much alcohol? Dead weight is a bitch to drag around under any circumstances. If your players are really complaining, get five of them to drag you around with you being limp, see how easy that is. Now imagine adding about 265kg minimum, an extra two feet or so in height and take in consideration all the gear the players may be carrying, what the troll is carrying, the added stress of "Holy crap, they shot Fritz!", the terrain they're trying to drag the troll over, etc. etc. 1m is more than generous.

[Tyro]

<snip>
The movement rates in Shadowrun are freaking broken if you really look at them and figure human/elf/ork walking rate is roughly the equivalent of 3.33 meters a second/10.9 feet per second/ 7.45mph. <snip

I read somewhere on these boards that "walking" is supposed to be jogging and "running" is a flat-out sprint. In other words, your walking rate is as fast as you can go without compromising your aim significantly.