20th Anniversary Book, Got it? Like it? Hate it? Options

[hobgoblin]

to bad there are areas where no eyes dear tread, as they may never recover from the vision...

[Aaron]

to bad there are areas where no eyes dear tread, as they may never recover from the vision...

Proofreader's notes:
first paragraph, first sentence: "to" should be "too"
first paragraph, first sentence: "dear" should be "dare"



=i)

[Synner667]

And these are reasons why professionals should never trust spell checkers, grammar checkers or any other automated tool - the computer cannot determine which is the correct meaning from correct, but inappropriate words [here, hear - there, their - effect, affect - too, to, two - etc].

There are no excuses for sloppy work.

[Angier]

is it correct that improving an attribute costs now *5 rather than *3?

[Synner]

Yes, that is one of several rules tweaks that were included in the Anniversary Edition and will be posted as errata later on. Other changes include revised direct combat spells, sensor mechanics and costs, and a rewrite and polish of the Matrix and Skills chapter for greater clarity and ease of reference. Plus, we incorporated several advanced rules (customized limbs, the advanced skills, etc) into the core ruleset.

[Angier]

will this change also affect the character generation costs for characters made with the karma system in rc?

[Aristotle]

I keep intending to apply to proofread...

Pg 41. Chart, Column 2: Seasource Rating (should be Reasource Rating?)
Pg 51. Chart, Side Title: Body Shops and Street Clinics (Same title as chart on pg. 41. Intended?)


Layout is beautiful. I'm an amateur InDesign geek myself.
Limited Edition is ordered. I've got to find time to play this game again.

[hobgoblin]

Proofreader's notes:
first paragraph, first sentence: "to" should be "too"
first paragraph, first sentence: "dear" should be "dare"

never claimed to be a good writer. oh, and you missed my habit of forgoing capitals. have i been around that long? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[HappyDaze]

will this change also affect the character generation costs for characters made with the karma system in rc?

Almost certainly so - the whole point of Karmagen is to have a single unified system for advancing a character. This will certainly rebalance Karmagen.

[Abschalten]

is it correct that improving an attribute costs now *5 rather than *3?

Ugh, I do not like this change. This radically changes the cost of attributes, changes the balance of Karmagen, and makes getting high-end attributes disproportionally expensive compared to just augmenting up from a rating of 1. It would also affect campaigns currently running, where the assumption is that attributes costs rating x 3 to raise. Not to mention, it screws the poor technomancer.

Maybe if this had been errata'd three years ago I'd have a different opinion, but why change it now, so far into the game's lifespan? What purpose does making attributes incredibly more expensive serve?

[BookWyrm]

While I applaud that SR has made it to 20 years, I cannot afford to pick up the core rules all over again. It's not just a matter fo the money (the $25 PDF is VERY enticing), I just cannot in good conscience spend that cash on only a few changes to the core rules that I already have and spent good money on.

Now, if they had just an update, separate but compatible with the previous printing, I could see that, but the price would have to be severly reduced.

I make it a point NOT to make a lot of online purchases.

[Jaid]

Yes, that is one of several rules tweaks that were included in the Anniversary Edition and will be posted as errata later on. Other changes include revised direct combat spells, sensor mechanics and costs, and a rewrite and polish of the Matrix and Skills chapter for greater clarity and ease of reference. Plus, we incorporated several advanced rules (customized limbs, the advanced skills, etc) into the core ruleset.

also, the object resistance table has been taking steroids.

While I applaud that SR has made it to 20 years, I cannot afford to pick up the core rules all over again. It's not just a matter fo the money (the $25 PDF is VERY enticing), I just cannot in good conscience spend that cash on only a few changes to the core rules that I already have and spent good money on.

Now, if they had just an update, separate but compatible with the previous printing, I could see that, but the price would have to be severly reduced.

I make it a point NOT to make a lot of online purchases.

it also has a bunch of fiction, a lot of new art, and a master index (*including* all the books that don't have an index).
also, with the coupon, it's only 20 bucks.

but yeah, if you focus only on new crunchy bits, then you are correct... there isn't an awful lot of new stuff here, and the stuff that is new should be making it into errata sooner or later.

[Browncoatone]

Well, there may be some editorial issues with the edition, but I like the color scheme, the layout, the organization. The information may be virtually the same but the presentation is so much easier for me to absorb.

[Tiger Eyes]

I keep intending to apply to proofread...

Pg 41. Chart, Column 2: Seasource Rating (should be Reasource Rating?)

no, it is supposed to be Seasource

Pg 51. Chart, Side Title: Body Shops and Street Clinics (Same title as chart on pg. 41. Intended?)

good catch

[Synner]

While I applaud that SR has made it to 20 years, I cannot afford to pick up the core rules all over again. It's not just a matter fo the money (the $25 PDF is VERY enticing), I just cannot in good conscience spend that cash on only a few changes to the core rules that I already have and spent good money on.

I'm going to be perfectly clear. If you have SR4 this is not a book that you need. It's a book that you want. The tweaks do not fundamentally change play in any significant way and simply address a few minor issues.

Now, if they had just an update, separate but compatible with the previous printing, I could see that, but the price would have to be severly reduced.

As I've mentioned elsewhere the key changes will be addressed in errata as soon as we get a break from our busy production schedule.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I am happy to see the book+pdf combos are more reasonably priced. In previous books I looked at you almost got no discount for getting the package deal.

Also I applaud the increased cost in improving attributes, and the reduced magic cost for improved physical attribute and reflexes.(Though for the love of pete drop the x2 when over normal maximum that is a terrible holdover from previous editions.)

Hopefully we will similar reductions in costs for street magic powers like wall running.

[Cain]

I'm going to be perfectly clear. If you have SR4 this is not a book that you need. It's a book that you want. The tweaks do not fundamentally change play in any significant way and simply address a few minor issues.

If it doesn't actually add anything but a few rules tweaks (Some, like the attribute/karma change, of dubious value), why do we /want/ this book? Why shell out $65, instead of waiting for errata?

[Tiger Eyes]

It's a celebratory edition for Shadowrun's 20th Anniversary.

It is not merely a re-printing of SR4 with some rules tweaks.

You'd want it for all the reasons people have said previously: For the all new, all color art, including 2 page spreads for each short story. For the 12 new anthology-length short stories. For the updated history. For the master index. For the layout, the organization, the re-vamped Matrix chapter. For the sheer "Oooh, shiny" factor.

[Shinobi Killfist]

If it doesn't actually add anything but a few rules tweaks (Some, like the attribute/karma change, of dubious value), why do we /want/ this book? Why shell out $65, instead of waiting for errata?

1. I'm a whore to new books.
2. I have the first printing, I'm sick of a big old errata addition and would prefer the most up to date rules be the book i bring to the game for at least a little while.
3. It looks snazzy.
4. Really awful fiction. Now if they could give me awesomely awful(AKA Awesul) fiction, I'd really be happy.

[Cain]

It's a celebratory edition for Shadowrun's 20th Anniversary.

It is not merely a re-printing of SR4 with some rules tweaks.

You'd want it for all the reasons people have said previously: For the all new, all color art, including 2 page spreads for each short story. For the 12 new anthology-length short stories. For the updated history. For the master index. For the layout, the organization, the re-vamped Matrix chapter. For the sheer "Oooh, shiny" factor.

So, Shadowrun 4.5 then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

Oh and damn, I like the direct combat spell nerf. Not sure it makes logical sense, but its magic and gives magic a more unpredictable magical feel.

[Malachi]

If it doesn't actually add anything but a few rules tweaks (Some, like the attribute/karma change, of dubious value), why do we /want/ this book? Why shell out $65, instead of waiting for errata?

... and I win! I would have bet $1000 that your first comment about this would be a complaint.

[the_dunner]

each time a new major release/update of SR have come, there have been a limited edition with a special cover. thats where the BBB acronym have come from. SR1 and SR2 had a blue cover for its limited edition, and SR3 had a black cover. this all from memory btw.

Not quite.

SR1 was initially a hardcover release, and then switched to paperback. Both had the blue trimmed Elmore cover.

SR2 was a limited hardcover release (but not numbered), and then paperback. Both had the black trimmed Elmore cover.

SR3 had the limited edition hardcover with the leatherette and the blue foil "S" and the black trimmed paperback.

SR4 had the limited edition hardcover with the leatherette and the silver foil "S" and the black hardcover. (No paperback)

BBB = Big Black (or Blue) Book (IE, the standard edition)
BABY = Big And Black Yearbook (IE, the Limited Edition that looked like a High School Yearbook)

[Ancient History]

4. Really awful fiction. Now if they could give me awesomely awful(AKA Awesul) fiction, I'd really be happy.

So you did read Happy Trails!

[Tashiro]

The one thing, and this is just a general complaint, nothing specific to the new PDF -- I really wish Combat Spells were allowed to keep the elemental components like they did way back in 1E and 2E. I never figured out why this was removed, it allowed more variety for Combat Spells, which otherwise fits a very small niche. (mana single shot, mana area, physical single shot, physical area, then in the 'stun' or 'wound' category, and then 'reduction ad infinito' for specific targets) -- there's only so many combat spells you can make unless you're going to make 'specific target' spells.

I liked my Hellfire spell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)