Just picked up the new PDF, already skimmed the book. I have to say, I find it quite nice. Fairly neat and tidy, I'm looking forward to going through it again with a fine tooth comb soon.

A few nit picks.
1) I wish they'd do a map of more than just North America for the main rulebook.
2) No female trolls in the book that can be easily identified. :\

Other than that though, I love the new tables, showing some of the cultural aspects of the game -- drinks, clubs, media, prices.

Well done.

yeah, i got the email for the pdf but i'm waiting for the hardcopy. what's the difference between the preorder print and the limited edition preorder print? they're both in full color and have the same content, right? is it just the numbering or does it come with some special cover?

Got it. love it.

quick guess, special cover.

notice how the battlecorp shop do not have a cover photo for it, while they do for both the pdf and the non-limited version.

would not be the first time btw, each time a new major release/update of SR have come, there have been a limited edition with a special cover. thats where the BBB acronym have come from. SR1 and SR2 had a blue cover for its limited edition, and SR3 had a black cover. this all from memory btw.

I only have the original BBB on PDF, I think I will have to pick up a hardcopy of the 20th Anniversary. I'm assuming that it has all the errata in it.

I am confused, starting with the fact that the @ I got had a broken link to prgdrivethrough site. How many editions are there? Is this an offer for the pdf-only, or for both the pdf and the printed book? The not-discounted price on rpgdrive suggests printed edition (since its the same price as the battleshop pre-order of normal edition), but the description on drivethrough states its a pdf (and the discounted drivethrough shop price is equal to the price of the battlecorps pdf...). Seems like a mess from inside one of the SR books, sigh :>

I'd also like to know if the difference between the limited and normal edition is limited to just the cover (i.e. why is this more expensive then this?

DriveThru changes URLs when a product goes from staging to live, and I didn't realize that. All links to DTRPG should be correct, now.



DriveThruRPG only sells files, not print + file bundles. Anything on DriveThru from us is electronic only.


The limited edition is, well, limited. They've individually numbered and will have a fancy [not finalized] cover.

How much is this going to cost and when will it be out?

I have no idea what you are asking in the first part of your question... It's still Shadowrun 4th edition... You can buy the PDF version, the 'normal' version or the Limited Edition version or any combination of that.

This gets you the LE and the 'normal' version, no PDF.
This gets you the LE and the PDF.
This is the LE alone.
This is the regular edition alone.
This is the regular edtion and the PDF.
and last but not least, This is the PDF by itself.

Just for reference the 4th ed collectors edition (the original one) is bound in faux leather with silver text on the cover. It is also numbered 1-1000 (mine is six hundred and something). The contents inside are identical but the paper is slightly higher quality.

It's more expensive because it is a limited edition with a print run of 1000 copies. If you're a collector the LE is nice to have on your shelf but the text inside is identical. It costs more (I suspect) because it costs a great deal more per book to do a 1000 copy run vs. a run of 10,000 or even 5000. That and since it is designed to appeal to the collectors market people will pay more.

The regular edition is 45; the PDF is 25; the special print edition is 65. Various bundles are available and buying them gives you a discount on the PDF. The PDF is available now, the street date for the print edition has not been announced yet.

i always thought that BBB meant big black book or black bordered book, both of which apply to my standard first printing copy of SR4. what does it mean since it seems that there is a version i don't know about?

@Adam:

will the 20th anniversary edition be available through regular channels? (i.e. the FLGS) if so, how much will it cost? i'd prefer to support both catalyst and the store with each SR purchase.

What's the ISBN for the limited edition? My wife works at an indie book store, and I'd like her to order it for me.

Yes, both the regular [$45] and limited edition [$65] will be available in stores. We don't discount printed books on our online store.

I don't have that info handy; it won't be retailers systems quite yet. Will post it when I know it.

so may I assume that all the errata from 4th edition has been corrected? I may end up ordering one.

I, personally, want it but am hesitant to order it, seeing as how there is a fairly obvious typo on the Skill chapter preview page 2...

Edit: Something like this should really have thorough proofing before release - especially on the preview pages.

I disagree. The preview pages should get no more attention. My hope is that its not yet off to the printers and that the DS community can give fast feedback so that the first Errata is only issued against the PDF.

Hey, I am a dreamer you know.

I read through the skill preview pages twice, I could not find even a typo.

BBB = Big Bad Book
This works as the Core book tends to be twice the size of all the other books out there.

It did have a very thorough proofing; moreso than any Shadowrun book Catalyst or FanPro has ever released. Proofers are only human, however, and "many eyes make bugs shallow" often holds true in the printed word.

So fill me in, and it will get fixed.

I found it because the table confused the fuck out of me, so I read the description to figure out what it meant. It should be DOSES OR KILOGRAMS.


Edit:

My comment was from a business standpoint - the end goal is to sell the product, which does not go over as well when the first thing you show has errors in it.

It will appear as "DOSES / KILOGRAMS" in the print edition, matching the table from p. 79, Arsenal.

That works.

This is in fact true. I was in my idealist mode.

BlueMax
"From a Corporate standpoint we hope people eat NERPS even if they provide no nutrition"

I always loved Linus' Law.

to bad there are areas where no eyes dear tread, as they may never recover from the vision...

Proofreader's notes:
first paragraph, first sentence: "to" should be "too"
first paragraph, first sentence: "dear" should be "dare"



=i)

And these are reasons why professionals should never trust spell checkers, grammar checkers or any other automated tool - the computer cannot determine which is the correct meaning from correct, but inappropriate words [here, hear - there, their - effect, affect - too, to, two - etc].

There are no excuses for sloppy work.

is it correct that improving an attribute costs now *5 rather than *3?

Yes, that is one of several rules tweaks that were included in the Anniversary Edition and will be posted as errata later on. Other changes include revised direct combat spells, sensor mechanics and costs, and a rewrite and polish of the Matrix and Skills chapter for greater clarity and ease of reference. Plus, we incorporated several advanced rules (customized limbs, the advanced skills, etc) into the core ruleset.

will this change also affect the character generation costs for characters made with the karma system in rc?

I keep intending to apply to proofread...

Pg 41. Chart, Column 2: Seasource Rating (should be Reasource Rating?)
Pg 51. Chart, Side Title: Body Shops and Street Clinics (Same title as chart on pg. 41. Intended?)


Layout is beautiful. I'm an amateur InDesign geek myself.
Limited Edition is ordered. I've got to find time to play this game again.

never claimed to be a good writer. oh, and you missed my habit of forgoing capitals. have i been around that long?

Almost certainly so - the whole point of Karmagen is to have a single unified system for advancing a character. This will certainly rebalance Karmagen.

Ugh, I do not like this change. This radically changes the cost of attributes, changes the balance of Karmagen, and makes getting high-end attributes disproportionally expensive compared to just augmenting up from a rating of 1. It would also affect campaigns currently running, where the assumption is that attributes costs rating x 3 to raise. Not to mention, it screws the poor technomancer.

Maybe if this had been errata'd three years ago I'd have a different opinion, but why change it now, so far into the game's lifespan? What purpose does making attributes incredibly more expensive serve?

While I applaud that SR has made it to 20 years, I cannot afford to pick up the core rules all over again. It's not just a matter fo the money (the $25 PDF is VERY enticing), I just cannot in good conscience spend that cash on only a few changes to the core rules that I already have and spent good money on.

Now, if they had just an update, separate but compatible with the previous printing, I could see that, but the price would have to be severly reduced.

I make it a point NOT to make a lot of online purchases.

also, the object resistance table has been taking steroids.


it also has a bunch of fiction, a lot of new art, and a master index (*including* all the books that don't have an index).
also, with the coupon, it's only 20 bucks.

but yeah, if you focus only on new crunchy bits, then you are correct... there isn't an awful lot of new stuff here, and the stuff that is new should be making it into errata sooner or later.

Well, there may be some editorial issues with the edition, but I like the color scheme, the layout, the organization. The information may be virtually the same but the presentation is so much easier for me to absorb.

no, it is supposed to be Seasource



good catch

I'm going to be perfectly clear. If you have SR4 this is not a book that you need. It's a book that you want. The tweaks do not fundamentally change play in any significant way and simply address a few minor issues.


As I've mentioned elsewhere the key changes will be addressed in errata as soon as we get a break from our busy production schedule.

I am happy to see the book+pdf combos are more reasonably priced. In previous books I looked at you almost got no discount for getting the package deal.

Also I applaud the increased cost in improving attributes, and the reduced magic cost for improved physical attribute and reflexes.(Though for the love of pete drop the x2 when over normal maximum that is a terrible holdover from previous editions.)

Hopefully we will similar reductions in costs for street magic powers like wall running.

If it doesn't actually add anything but a few rules tweaks (Some, like the attribute/karma change, of dubious value), why do we /want/ this book? Why shell out $65, instead of waiting for errata?

It's a celebratory edition for Shadowrun's 20th Anniversary.

It is not merely a re-printing of SR4 with some rules tweaks.

You'd want it for all the reasons people have said previously: For the all new, all color art, including 2 page spreads for each short story. For the 12 new anthology-length short stories. For the updated history. For the master index. For the layout, the organization, the re-vamped Matrix chapter. For the sheer "Oooh, shiny" factor.

1. I'm a whore to new books.
2. I have the first printing, I'm sick of a big old errata addition and would prefer the most up to date rules be the book i bring to the game for at least a little while.
3. It looks snazzy.
4. Really awful fiction. Now if they could give me awesomely awful(AKA Awesul) fiction, I'd really be happy.

So, Shadowrun 4.5 then?

Oh and damn, I like the direct combat spell nerf. Not sure it makes logical sense, but its magic and gives magic a more unpredictable magical feel.

... and I win! I would have bet $1000 that your first comment about this would be a complaint.

Not quite.

SR1 was initially a hardcover release, and then switched to paperback. Both had the blue trimmed Elmore cover.

SR2 was a limited hardcover release (but not numbered), and then paperback. Both had the black trimmed Elmore cover.

SR3 had the limited edition hardcover with the leatherette and the blue foil "S" and the black trimmed paperback.

SR4 had the limited edition hardcover with the leatherette and the silver foil "S" and the black hardcover. (No paperback)

BBB = Big Black (or Blue) Book (IE, the standard edition)
BABY = Big And Black Yearbook (IE, the Limited Edition that looked like a High School Yearbook)

So you did read Happy Trails!

The one thing, and this is just a general complaint, nothing specific to the new PDF -- I really wish Combat Spells were allowed to keep the elemental components like they did way back in 1E and 2E. I never figured out why this was removed, it allowed more variety for Combat Spells, which otherwise fits a very small niche. (mana single shot, mana area, physical single shot, physical area, then in the 'stun' or 'wound' category, and then 'reduction ad infinito' for specific targets) -- there's only so many combat spells you can make unless you're going to make 'specific target' spells.

I liked my Hellfire spell.