Best loadouts for street sams, Different augs for different styles Options

[InfinityzeN]

SR4A, Reaction Enhancers are compatable with Wired Reflexes again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And as stated, bulk modification on the arms will get you the slots.

I got an Agility: 15, Reaction: 10 Elf sniper/sensor Sammy from hell. Actually, you can't really call him a sniper, since he shoots any firearm/launcher he picks up with 22 (+ Specialization, + Smartgun) dice. Granted, not very hard to get with a 15 Agility but he is good with everything.

[The Jake]

SR4A, Reaction Enhancers are compatable with Wired Reflexes again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And as stated, bulk modification on the arms will get you the slots.

I got an Agility: 15, Reaction: 10 Elf sniper/sensor Sammy from hell. Actually, you can't really call him a sniper, since he shoots any firearm/launcher he picks up with 22 (+ Specialization, + Smartgun) dice. Granted, not very hard to get with a 15 Agility but he is good with everything.

How'd you get AGI 15? Care to post the build?

- J.

[crazyconscript]

Ah, so SR4A does allow reaction enhancers to stack with wired reflexes. I don't have access to the book so i wasn't sure.
BUT bulk modification would not be the optimal solution for fitting stuff into limbs in this case.
Availability of full cyberarm: 4
Custom limb attributes: +1 per point over 3(which is where it starts)
bulk modification: +1 per extra capacity
So you could use the bulk mod to get the extra capacity, but the limbs are already at 12 from the custom attributes.

[The Jake]

@ The Jake
Actually, the BBB p.335 does state they are incompatible:

Emphasis added by me, but they dont stack. The point i was trying to make was that for a sam like this, your primary use of agility will be to hit things, and for this you will be using your arms. Ergo having the rest of your body with 11 agility doesnt seem like it is going to help much.

Ok - granted they don't stack. My only reason for the cyberarms were for the gyromounts - I'll be honest. Everything else is negotiable. But my point stands - I can have Muscle Toner apply to the rest of the body. I just never want to be in a situation where I have to use my unaugmented agility.

Well here is what i am operating off of, actually on the same page (335):

You can argue that reaction enhancers are not an initiative enhancement since they dont grant IP's, but since they raise reaction which is used to calculate initiative i classify them as initiative enhancement.

Read the Reaction Enhancers - p. 334 of the BBB:

Reaction Enhancers: By replacing part of the spinal
column with superconducting material, a character’s reaction
time can be increased. Add the rating of reaction enhancers
to a character’s Reaction attribute (this will also
affect Initiative). Reaction enhancers are compatible with
other Initiative-boosters.

Emphasis mine. Looks pretty darn clear to me that you can. If not for Wired Reflexes, Synaptic Accelerators and MBW (which all have the same text you're spouting) then what is the point of the bold text? I'll tell you - the only reason that they say Initiative boosters aren't compatible with other boosters is to prevent munchkins stacking MBW(3) with Synaptic Accelerators(3) to get 7 IPs or more.

You can quite legitimately have all three, its just that i see the synthacardium as a way of boosting the gymnastics dodge as much as possible. Since i am looking at this as a contender for "best street sam" i would rely more on the dodge defense here since you know that is applicable everywhere, and when not dodging in combat you already have high enough attributes to be good at athletics even if you have it at low levels. If you lowered the athletics group to 2-3 which is still a good level for this guy and lost the synthacardium it frees up extra resources for other goodies.

Hrmmm.... point taken but I think I'm going the other way. I'm leaning towards scrapping Dodge based on a few posts here and comments in the other Dodge threads. Unless my GM is a truly evil bastard, it should work and is RAW legal.

Also noticed something else there with the cyberlimbs: you cant actually fit in all of those enhancements with the limbs capacity.
Cyberlimb Gyromoung: 4
Cyberarm Slide: 8
Strength mod: 3
Agility mod: 3
Total=18
Full cyberarms only have a capacity of 15 i'm afraid

Bugger! I dunno how I missed that. I deliberately maxed the availability on the limb. Even if I squeezed in metagenic optimisation I'd have to drop STR by 1.

The only way I can see fitting it all is to lose the slide (which is doable given there is a non-cyber variant).

Currently working on my own version of this street-sam special edition, using the move-by-wire system. Will post it when i'm done, see how it works out. So far i have managed to get Reaction 12 and agility 11, with mostly the same skills

Like the gun by the way

I'd like to see it. Please post it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks on the gun.

- J.

[crazyconscript]

Actually move by wire specifies that it is compatible with reaction enhancers, unlike the others....but meh, InfinityZen just said that SR4A allows them to stack anyway. So no biggie then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[InfinityzeN]

How'd you get AGI 15? Care to post the build?

- J.

Not in a begining character is how. He is in the 800BP thread over on the Community Projects side of the forum.

As for the 15 Agility, Elf (7) with Exceptional Agility (+1), Metegenetic Improve: Agility (+1), Genetic Opti: Agility (+1), Muscle Toner 4 (+4), and Suprathyroid Gland (+1) nets you a 10(15) Agility. He has Genetic Opti: Reaction to end up with a 6(10) and 4 IPs. His equipment cost might be a little off, since I've built and rebuilt it so many times (though the bio and cyber are fine).

He's a good guy, shoots his pistol with 26 dice (or 13 & 11 if going dual welding), his assault rifle with 26 dice, his sniper rifle with 26 dice, his assault cannon with... you guessed it, 26 dice, and his machine gun with... damn, only 24 dice.

[paws2sky]

SR4A, Reaction Enhancers are compatable with Wired Reflexes again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And as stated, bulk modification on the arms will get you the slots.

Oh, nice!
Thanks, I missed that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-paws

[crazyconscript]

Well here we go then, my take on this experiment. I have never actually made a Sam who relied on Cyberlimbs quite like this guy before.

Presenting: The "I'm not a cyborg, really!" Street Samurai

[ Spoiler ]

Race: Elf (30)

Attributes (200 BP)
Body:5
Agility:5[11]
Reaction:6[12]
Strength:5[9]
Charisma:3
Intuition:4
Logic:2
Willpower:3

-Essence: 0.02 :cyborg:
-Edge: 1 (I would REALLY prefer it to be higher, but meh)

Skills (116 BP)
Athletics Group 2
Automatics 6 (Machine Pistols +2, Reflex +1)
Pistols 3 (Holdouts +2)
Unarmed Combat 2
Blades 4 (Cyber-weapons +2)
Perception 3
Dodge 4 (Ranged +2, MBW +2, Reflex +1)

Qualities: +35/-35
Ambidextrous (5)
Restricted Gear-Move by Wire (5)
Class III Surge (15+10)
-Metegenetic Improvement (Reaction)
-Metegenetic Improvement (Agility)
-Astral Hazing
-Striking Skin Pigmentation (Red)
Moderate Addiction Stim Patches (-10)
Combat Monster (-10)
Distinctive Style 2 (-10)...i mean, come on, he WOULD attract attention
Incompetent-Hacking (-5) if the street sam in the BBB can take it, so can i (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Gear: :nuyen:250,000-50 BP-Every single (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) used up

Cyber+Bio-Ware
Move-By-Wire Rating 2: 85,000
Reflex Recorder (Skill-Dodge/Automatics) x2: 20,000
Reaction Enhancer Rating 2 (Alphaware): 40,000
2x Obvious Cyberarms (Cap: 15/15): 36,700 each
-Customised Strength +3
-Customised Agility +5
-Cyberarm Gyromount
-Cyber Spur
-Body +2
-Strength +3
-Agility +3
CyberEyes Rating 3 (Cap: 12/12): 8,750
-Smartlink
-Thermographic Vision
-Low-Light Vision
-Flare Compensation
-Vision Enhancement 2
-Vision Magnification

Commlink+Communcations
Rating 6 Micro Transceiver: 1200
Sony Emperor: 700
Renraku Ichi OS: 600

Armour
Armour Jacket: 900
Form Fitting Body Armour, Half-Suit: 900

Other Gear
Low Lifestyle -1 month: 2,000
Goggles w/Ultrasound: 1050
2xCustom FN 5-7C's: 2,000 each
-Internal Laser Sight
-Top-mount Smartgun System (i switched them to be a little more cost-effiecent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )
-Gas-Vent 3
-Personalised Grip
-Gecko Grip
-Firing Selection, FA
20xClips Tracer Ammo for Machine Pistols: 3,100
2x Hidden Gun Arm Slides: 700
Filchetti Tiffani Needler: 500
Concealable Holster: 75
5xClips of Flechette Ammo for Needler: 225
Rating 4 Fake SIN: 4000
4x Certified Credsticks: 100
Trauma Patch: 500
10x Rating 6 Stim Patches: 1500
Rating 6 Medkit w/1 Refill: 650
Tag Eraser: 150

Contacts: 4 BP of whatever...
Knowledge Skills: 18 points of whatever...

Total: 400 BP

First lets look at the attack pool for the primary weapon: the machine pistols
-For most attacks with a single gun, it will be 22 with the smartlink
-With a long burst, it will be 23 with tracers+laser beyond short range
-Doing a full burst at a single target, it is 24 before calculating recoil beyond short range
This is before any negative modifiers (recoil,range,cover etc) however.
For close combat, the cyber-spurs will be the primary weapons with a dice pool of 17 to attack, doing 8P base damage

Dodge skill is 21 for ranged full defense, 19 in close combat without full defense, and 25 with full defense (MBW adds to the skill rating for dodge, not extra dice, therefore they double with full defense: 12+1+6+6)

Initiative of 16
Perception pool of 7 (+2 visual from cyber-eyes)

He has Ultrasound, Thermo + Low-Light vision so almost all vision mods will be negated, plus he has vision magnification for long range shots.

Armour of 12/7, with a body of 5 for damage resistance.
Condition monitor: 13 Physical/10 Stun

Contacts are actually pretty pitiful there, so a skill could probably be lowered to free up more for those.
For advancement,any (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) earned will probably go into activesofts for the move-by-wire's inherent skillwires and alphaware upgrades, while karma is used to upgrade edge/willpower

Oh, and he has his own warped background count. I thought it was fitting considering how close the guy is to becoming a cyber-zombie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) . Augmentation addict was sooooo tempting....

As a counter to this i started making a troll i am terming "Mr. Frag-It". 2 IP's, 23/23 Stealthy Milspec Armour, 9 Body+2 for damage resistance, and a Semi-Auto grenade launcher with smartgun (and chameleon coating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) ). He also has enough recoil comp to fire his High-Velocity Ares Alpha (with chameleon coating) without taking any penalties. All with 1 essence left!

[Tyro]

Is there any point for getting spurs other than quick access?

[Stahlseele]

Style? O.o
Being able to implant chemical gland and/or drug reservoir that can be filled with something nasty?
One of my most successfull Character Designs in 3rd ed was a Troll with maxed out Strength(16),
Dikote on his Hand-Blade bringing Damage up to 20M and then added GammaScopolamine for another 10D Stun immediately after.
One such blade on each Hand, each with 8 Doses of Gamma Scopolamine.
Meaning i could probably have downed 20 of WHATEVER if i ever got to play him again.
Of course, the Troll-Size Ranger-X Bow with 24M Damage Arrows tipped in the Stuff probably would have helped a lot too ^^

[crazyconscript]

The fact that they are easy to access as implants is the main reason i gave him spurs. Since the characters main shtick would be shooting things in the face, he is going to have his hands occupied with guns. If someone gets close, he can easily drop the guns (disabling the gecko grips) and pop spurs to deal out the pain. Plus they are a lot easier to carry around in addition to other equipment.

I would have loved to have chemicals on the spurs, but he has no capacity left in the limbs and no monies left over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Bit of a stretch, but if one of my characters gets internal blades, he gets the venom sacks and a permit because he uses them to "inject dangerous critters with tranquilizers" ^^

[crazyconscript]

awww, no more comments on the build then?
Although it is only one type of possible street sam build, i tried to continue to make him into the best guy you could get with machine pistols at chargen. I want to see other peoples opinions of whether i succeeded in the improvement.

[Stahlseele]

sorry, i don't know my way around the 4th ed rules/generation system

[The Jake]

The fact that they are easy to access as implants is the main reason i gave him spurs. Since the characters main shtick would be shooting things in the face, he is going to have his hands occupied with guns. If someone gets close, he can easily drop the guns (disabling the gecko grips) and pop spurs to deal out the pain. Plus they are a lot easier to carry around in addition to other equipment.

I would have loved to have chemicals on the spurs, but he has no capacity left in the limbs and no monies left over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I had a picture in my head of a Wolverine/Cyber hybrid using Laes coated Cyberspurs....

- J.

[ElFenrir]

I really think you did a damn good job at keeping him awesome at machine pistols while NOT going overboard and squeezing out every last tie to turn him into a one-trick pony. Problem is with squeezing out every last drop are the diminishing returns...eventually you just don't get enough for what you put in.

This guy though, can either shoot you up, cut you up, beat you up(13 dice in a fistfight is certainly not bad), notice things, and dodge like a maniac.

Okay, he's a LITTLE bit of a one-trick-no, maybe 3-trick pony(he's an awesome combat machine both ranged AND close in, but not much else-I consider one-tricks to only really be great at like, literally ONE aspect), but he does have room to grow out with some Karma, after all.

(and regardless what folks say, there is nothing wrong with playing someone who is heavily specialized. It can be a blast sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

[The Jake]

I really think you did a damn good job at keeping him awesome at machine pistols while NOT going overboard and squeezing out every last tie to turn him into a one-trick pony. Problem is with squeezing out every last drop are the diminishing returns...eventually you just don't get enough for what you put in.

This guy though, can either shoot you up, cut you up, beat you up(13 dice in a fistfight is certainly not bad), notice things, and dodge like a maniac.

Okay, he's a LITTLE bit of a one-trick-no, maybe 3-trick pony(he's an awesome combat machine both ranged AND close in, but not much else-I consider one-tricks to only really be great at like, literally ONE aspect), but he does have room to grow out with some Karma, after all.

(and regardless what folks say, there is nothing wrong with playing someone who is heavily specialized. It can be a blast sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

I concur.

When I create a build I don't mind specialising but I try to have 2-3 things he/she can be competent with. You definitely achieved that (and more efficiently than my example) and left more room for growth.

- J.

[Stahlseele]

I had a picture in my head of a Wolverine/Cyber hybrid using Laes coated Cyberspurs....

- J.

i can see it now:
NPC looks down goes:"huh, where did that cut come from?"
*snikt*
NPC looks down goes:"huh, where did the cuts come from?"

[crazyconscript]

i can see it now:
NPC looks down goes:"huh, where did that cut come from?"
*snikt*
NPC looks down goes:"huh, where did the cuts come from?"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) now i just have to make a character that does that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
But, hmmm, i dont think you can synthesize laes since its an awakened drug so he would have to have a refillable gland (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[The Jake]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) now i just have to make a character that does that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
But, hmmm, i dont think you can synthesize laes since its an awakened drug so he would have to have a refillable gland (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

Who cares when you have AGI 15 cyberarms? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I did wonder if it could be synthesized. The Awakened bit is a killer.

The concept I was floating as the basis:

Dwarf
+ dermal sheath
+ titanium bone lacing
+ MBW
+ Symbiotes
+ Platelet Factory
+ Trauma Dampener
+ Laes coated spurs.

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Are Venom Sacks out? O.o
In SR3, each sack held 2 Doses of the Compound.
And there was NO LIMIT to their number.
And at 0,05 Essence you could load up with them untill your arms looked ike those in LIIEEFEELD Comics too ^^
And you got to chose which drug you wanted to use, so you could have a sack with laes, one with gammascopolamine, one with fugu . .

[crazyconscript]

And probably the ars cybernetica (sp?) martial art to go along with it.
EDIT: and yes, you can get cyber for drugs to be stored in. They just need to be refilled unless you have a bio-gland that makes the drug/toxin constantly.

[Stahlseele]

Yes, but with that setup, you can chose what kind of drug you want to use and switch out at will.
only thing i really like about the chemical gland is the accompanying immunity to the self produced poison.

[The Jake]

And probably the ars cybernetica (sp?) martial art to go along with it.
EDIT: and yes, you can get cyber for drugs to be stored in. They just need to be refilled unless you have a bio-gland that makes the drug/toxin constantly.

I was more partial to Eskrima for this build. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

[crazyconscript]

Afraid i dont have my books with me, so i cant remember what eskrima advantages are. But i'm pretty sure that getting all of that cyber will put you on 250k+ straight off the bat, and you made need a couple of things alphaware to get the essence. I think it could be done (born rich/in debt) but maybe the character would be more suited for the 800BP thread?
Also: Although having titanium bone lacing is damned cool, it renders cyber-spurs obsolete due to having the same damage (S/2+3). Of course, you cant have laes coated hands....
"Okay, here we go!"
"..."
"Why are my covered in something?"