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> Best loadouts for street sams, Different augs for different styles
Stahlseele
post Mar 20 2009, 06:52 PM
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if it were jsut counterweight, it would work without popping out, as the weight does not change, because the weight is attached to the hand no matter what . .
i imagin those things spinning around too, as they are gyroscopic thignies, and gyroscopes work by spinning. and for that price, those gyroscopes had BETTER be spinning ^^
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Tyro
post Mar 20 2009, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 20 2009, 11:52 AM) *
if it were jsut counterweight, it would work without popping out, as the weight does not change, because the weight is attached to the hand no matter what . .
i imagin those things spinning around too, as they are gyroscopic thignies, and gyroscopes work by spinning. and for that price, those gyroscopes had BETTER be spinning ^^

I imagine the weight required for THREE POINTS of recoil comp would make it hard to lift your arm, if it were just weight we were talking about. Besides, you could get that effect by strapping a weight to your wrist, no surgery required.
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BlueMax
post Mar 20 2009, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (Tyro @ Mar 20 2009, 11:57 AM) *
I imagine the weight required for THREE POINTS of recoil comp would make it hard to lift your arm, if it were just weight we were talking about. Besides, you could get that effect by strapping a weight to your wrist, no surgery required.

Gaah

As much as I hate this faux realism creep, I'll participate.

The weight isnt the only factor. Its the angular velocity with with the weights spin that is probably the kicker.
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Tyro
post Mar 20 2009, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE (BlueMax @ Mar 20 2009, 11:59 AM) *
Gaah

As much as I hate this faux realism creep, I'll participate.

The weight isnt the only factor. Its the angular velocity with with the weights spin that is probably the kicker.

My point exactly. What I meant was if it were weight alone (not spinning) and not debilitatingly heavy, it wouldn't be enough for that much RC. Ergo, they must be spinning.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 20 2009, 07:10 PM
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well, technically you could add under barrel weight, over barrel weight, and where the hell else you can fit them too . . including on your arms *snickers*
but because that would be silly, the rules say no, let's leave it at that. it's NOT the weight, but sentry-fuck-all force that gives recoil compensation
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Tyro
post Mar 20 2009, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 20 2009, 12:10 PM) *
<snip>
sentry-fuck-all force
<snip>

Sentry?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 20 2009, 08:16 PM
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sentry-fuck-all
centrifugal
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Tyro
post Mar 20 2009, 08:46 PM
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That.... was bad. Very, very bad.


...But then, the beauty of a pun is in the "Oy!" of the beholder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Mx
post Mar 20 2009, 09:07 PM
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There's a picture of the cyberarm gyromount in 336 of the BBB.
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Tyro
post Mar 20 2009, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Mar 20 2009, 02:07 PM) *
There's a picture of the cyberarm gyromount in 336 of the BBB.

Not a very good one, I'm afraid :-/
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Stahlseele
post Mar 20 2009, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (Tyro @ Mar 20 2009, 09:46 PM) *
That.... was bad. Very, very bad.


...But then, the beauty of a pun is in the "Oy!" of the beholder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

thank you, thank you, i will be here all . . ah fuggit, probably untill i die . . yeah, no, i got no life . .
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Dikotana
post Mar 21 2009, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Mar 20 2009, 11:35 AM) *
It can't work that way if you want to stay as realisitic as possible. The 'signals in all directions' bit is only happening in the neural portion of muscular control. Only the signals that are desired - once the countersignal is filtered - reach the chemical transmission phase that connects neural activity with muscular action. Because of the refractory times of muscle fibers, this is the only way the system could operate and still give faster than human reactions.

Realism in Shadowrun? Perish the thought!

At any rate, the explanation given seems to imply that the 'ware can't balance the neural signals quite right, which is why muscles get random, sudden, strong, but very brief chemical signals. In other words, lots of twitching.
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Tyro
post Mar 29 2009, 10:16 PM
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So could someone post sample loadouts? I have no problem going down to .0001 Essence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Mar 29 2009, 10:22 PM
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if you really have no qualms about that, go full body replacement and make it ALL modular as hell.
you now can do plug and pray with whatever you need him to do O.o
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Tyro
post Mar 29 2009, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 29 2009, 03:22 PM) *
if you really have no qualms about that, go full body replacement and make it ALL modular as hell.
you now can do plug and pray with whatever you need him to do O.o

It's been my impression that someone who wants to go full-body shouldn't start that way - he should instead get the "meat-body" stuff at character creation that he'll still want later down the line (genetic optimization, synaptic boosters, etc.) or, if allowed to get Betaware at character creation, start with as much of that as he can afford and leave the rest meat until he has the money/contacts to improve it as well. Even with Born Rich, full-body Betaware is just too expensive for a starting toon to swing.

In other words, if you plan on full-body Betaware or above, you shouldn't get standard/alphaware at all - it's massively inefficient.

On a side note, opinions on Born Rich, Black Market Pipeline and Restricted Gear?

[Edit:] For a full body replacement, should I get a Synaptic Booster instead of MBW to take advantage of the Essence discount?

[Edit 2:] Are Bone Lacing and Bone Density compatible with a cyber torso?
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Rasumichin
post Mar 29 2009, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (crazyconscript @ Mar 20 2009, 05:50 PM) *
I've always had the image of a counterweight system popping out of the wrist, but i see no reason why i cant be housed in the hand and fold backwards or something. Or you could just say that the cyberhand includes the wrist which was always my imagining (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)


In previous editions, it was noted that cyberlimbs always included the joint attaching the limb.
Cyberarms included the shoulder, lower arms the elbow and hands the wrists.
This isn't stated in SR4, but i still regard it as a valid point in my own game.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 29 2009, 10:52 PM
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believe it or not, all of the bone stuff has allways been fully compatible with replacements . .
i would go with move by wire, because then you do not need skillwires. also, nice dodge bonus.
that means you save karma on skills. and if you have certain things on char gen, you can have allmost all skills that are possible about 2 days in game time later for cheap.
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Tyro
post Mar 29 2009, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 29 2009, 03:52 PM) *
believe it or not, all of the bone stuff has allways been fully compatible with replacements . .
i would go with move by wire, because then you do not need skillwires. also, nice dodge bonus.
that means you save karma on skills. and if you have certain things on char gen, you can have allmost all skills that are possible about 2 days in game time later for cheap.

I can get more defense dice with Gymnastics Dodge, a Synthcardium, Neo-EPO and high Clubs skill (spec. parry). And skillwires aren't that important when skills are practically all you spend Karma on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Mar 29 2009, 11:27 PM
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they are only important, if you wanna go swiss army knife, that much is true.
and yes, there's better ways for defense. BUT IT'S STILL MOVE BY WIRE!
Rule of Cool:
Cool Trumps EVERYTHING ^^
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Tyro
post Mar 29 2009, 11:28 PM
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I personally think someone with full replacement + casemods (no skull, but a really nice helmet) + eyeband is the epitome of cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Edit:] Is Bone Lacing/Density compatible with cyberlimbs? I'd love a citation either way.
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The Jake
post Apr 11 2009, 02:43 AM
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I would like to see the loadouts comparitive dice pools for Full Dodge vs Gymnastic Dodge vs Parry and see who gets the largest dice pool.

My impression:
Gymnastics Dodge > Parry > Full Dodge.

Obvious this doesn't allow for set circumstances (such as room for movement, etc - but by RAW I'm not sure how much that would come into play).

My take is that there's a plethora of cyber which allows you to improve athletics very easily and to a limited extent martial arts (I'm thinking genetech in Augmentation). There's only a limited amount of items which enable you to boost Dodge dicepools directly (MBW is the only one springing to mind easily).

I'm not taking Magic into account here however.

- J.
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The Jake
post Apr 11 2009, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Mar 20 2009, 02:41 AM) *
Get full limbs, max out AGI, probably increase STR as far as needed for additional recoil compensation.
Other interesting gadgets would be a nanohive (if you're going down the sensor sam route, get a hold of some Limbic Neural Stimulus Nanites, but get an Attention Coprocessor first), an Autoinjector and cyberlimb armor (which is, however, quite demanding in capacity).

As far as damage reduction is concerned, i think Platelet Factory is the most cost-effective, even though a Blood Circuit Control System is more efficient as far as synergy effects with a trauma damper are concerned- but it is prohibitively expensive Essence-wise, so it may very well not be an option for you.
But i'd get REA as high as possible before that anyway, along with Dodge and/or Acrobatics (Syntharcadium comes in handy here)- better not to get hit in the first place than to soak damage.

Hm, if you use standard grade ware, that wouldn't leave you with much more Essence to spend, but there's some rather nifty geneware around.
Synch, React and Genetic Optimization might be particularly interesting.

That should, along with eyes and ears, provide a good basis for most tasks you'll face.
If you want something more subtle than UWB radar, use ultrasound sensors passively (great for detecting opposing ultraound sensors!) and probably get one of those bioware thermosense organs to detect hidden enemies.

That should be about all you need.

You get a skilled shooter who can avoid getting hit, reacts swiftly and is perceptive as hell, along with the ability to handle a lot of non-combative physical tasks such as running, climbing, jumping and so on (thanks, Syntharcadium!) and who can sneak around a bit, so you'll have all of the basic samurai tasks covered.


I was looking at this but the SR4 rulebook states you can't use limbs with strength/agility augmentations above 3 without a cyber torso:

QUOTE (BBB)
Only characters with a cybertorso can have cyberlimb enhancements with a rating higher than 3.


Has this been fixed in SR4A? If I have other ware that brings up a character's attributes to the same rating as a cyberlimb, I fail to see whats the issue personally....

I would like a way to get maxed AGI, REA and still have room for two cyberlimbs, complete with cyberarm slides and gyromounts....

- J.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 11 2009, 01:00 PM
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There's a loophole of sorts.
if you get optimized limbs or whatever they are called, they do not count as enhanced.
so you can get the arm on a human up to STR6 and then get rating 3 enhancement up to strenngth 9.
and the ENHANCEMENT is NOT HIGHER THAN THREE . . so you do NOT need a Torso . . yeah, it's cheese, i know *g*
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The Jake
post Apr 12 2009, 11:22 AM
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Found it - in Augmentation. Cheers. Dunno how I missed that.

Even so, I'm trying to come up with a build that is elven, has near maxed out agility (i.e. 12+), uber reaction and cyberarms with gyromounts and no less than 10 bp in Martial Arts and Ambidexterity. It's a delicate balancing act - I'm thinking biocompatibility (cyberware) is also the way to go.

Even with the optimised limbs in Augmentation, I can't seem to find an easy way to exceed AGI 11 without either a cyber torso or genetic optimisation (agility)/surge bonuses/exceptional attribute or the like

One a sidenote, does Synthacardium (3) only work if you have 6 in gymnastics/Athletics group? My build has a rating 4 so wouldn't that mean I can't get a benefit greater than 2 dice?

- J.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 12 2009, 11:30 AM
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Metagenetic Improvement,
Gentic Optimization,
Exceptional Attribute.
Now you are at 10 Agility on the Elf.
Then get the Cyber-Arms with Agility 10 and enhancement 3 for 13 Agility? O.o
Or Muscle-Stuff/Suprathoid Gland for example.

What does the Synthacardium state?
Usually, everything that does not, directly, add to skill is not limited by anything.
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