Is Shape [Material] pretty useless?, Or am I missing something? Options

[Dakka Dakka]

Most objects are made of a multitude of materials, and according to RAW only that which is in line of sight can be affected. If you want to make a hole into a wall would you need besides shape concrete shape steel, shape wallpaper and shape plasterboard or shape wood depending on what the surface and the layers below are made of?

Would a Shape Living Tissue be possible (I admit I was thinking about Tzimisce)? Would Shape Wood affect a tree?

[crizh]

The line of sight rules are kinda fungable. You can target a guy in Heavy Military Armour but not a Cyborg. I think most people are happy to ignore them in these edge cases.

If you can see an object and it contains a significant amount of the Material in question then it is a legitimate target.

It's the actual rules about how much of a material you can effect and how quickly it can be moved that need clarification.

[Browncoatone]

Most objects are made of a multitude of materials, and according to RAW only that which is in line of sight can be affected. If you want to make a hole into a wall would you need besides shape concrete shape steel, shape wallpaper and shape plasterboard or shape wood depending on what the surface and the layers below are made of?

In a traditionally built house? I'd say yes. Easier just to go through the glass door or window (see below).

Would a Shape Living Tissue be possible (I admit I was thinking about Tzimisce)?

Just me, but I'd say no. There is always a division between objects and lifeforms and this spell seems to be an object spell to me.

Would Shape Wood affect a tree?

Living tree? No. Dead tree? Yes.

Other possible uses for such related spells:

Shape Metal (depending on how specific your GM requires you to define your materials) could be used to reform a stop sign into a improvised edged weapon.

Shape Concrete could be used to open and close an access point into the Ork underground from an underground parking garage without leaving a permanent opening or (physical) trace of passage.

Shape Glass could also be used to transform bottles or plate glass windows into improvised weapons. Could also be used to gain entry into a building through the windows without leaving a (physical) trace.

Shape Earth could be used to dig holes or tunnels in solid earth or stone very quickly without the need of explosives (need an underground kingdom anyone?) could also be used to make stone furniture or statues.

Shape Asphalt could be used to create traffic hazards on paved roads (big potholes adjacent to a new 24" curb anyone?)

Shape Plastic, Shape Concrete, Shape Metal, & Shape Glass could be used to ease recycling efforts.

Shape Water could be used to drown enemies (anyone seen Harry Potter?) or pull a Moses on a river or lake.

Shape Fire might be used in fire control or to contain forest fires.

Shape Wood might be used to make very detailed furniture without the need of cutting, screwing, glueing or sanding the wood.

[Dakka Dakka]

This is pretty clear. You can affect anything of the material within the spell's area. If you could see everything this would be (4/3)*π*Force³ m³. You can move the material with a speed of (net hits) m per turn, but at the GM's discretion you first have to reduce the material's structure.

[Dakka Dakka]

Shape Metal (depending on how specific your GM requires you to define your materials) could be used to reform a stop sign into a improvised edged weapon.

Definitely possible in my opinion as well

Shape Concrete could be used to open and close an access point into the Ork underground from an underground parking garage without leaving a permanent opening or (physical) trace of passage.

Only if there is no steel mesh in the concrete, which is standard for such buildings

Shape Glass could also be used to transform bottles or plate glass windows into improvised weapons. Could also be used to gain entry into a building through the windows without leaving a (physical) trace.

For normal windows this is correct, but already a car's windshield let alone bullet resistant glass would be impossible, as these objects are made of several layers of glass and plastic.

Shape Earth could be used to dig holes or tunnels in solid earth or stone very quickly without the need of explosives (need an underground kingdom anyone?) could also be used to make stone furniture or statues.

Yup, if you need something like that.

Shape Asphalt could be used to create traffic hazards on paved roads (big potholes adjacent to a new 24" curb anyone?)

Yes.

Shape Plastic, Shape Concrete, Shape Metal, & Shape Glass could be used to ease recycling efforts.

Yes recycling is classic shadowrunner business.

Shape Water could be used to drown enemies (anyone seen Harry Potter?) or pull a Moses on a river or lake.

If there is enough water around yes. Otherwise just use a combat spell

Shape Fire might be used in fire control or to contain forest fires.

I don't hing the area is large enough. By the way, what is the OR of fire?

Shape Wood might be used to make very detailed furniture without the need of cutting, screwing, glueing or sanding the wood.

True, but again not usually useful to the standard shadowrunner.

[Browncoatone]

I think there is a lot left up to GM interpetation actually.

What is "Water"? Does shape water work on seawater? How about soda pop or wine?

Can I take Shape Metal spell or do I have to take Shape Steel, Shape Bronze, Shape Aluminum...

Is a tree wood? Or is a tree a living thing that gets a resistance roll rather than an object resistance threshold?

If I can twist a treed with Shape Wood, can I twist your arm with Shape Flesh or Shape Bone? Can I use Shape Flesh and Shape Bone to assist in plastic surgery without using plastic?

Does Shape Earth work on solid stone? How about concrete or asphalt which are made of stone?

If I slap a coat of latex paint on a concrete surface does that mean the concrete isn't in line of sight?

[Browncoatone]

but again not usually useful to the standard shadowrunner.

Perhaps, but it might be of use to the mage down at the recycling plant your team is running against who doesn't have that fireball spell because it's illegal for him to have it, but still needs to fight back with what is at hand.

[Stahlseele]

well, if there wasn't the whole thing about not being able to magic a single part of something bigger, imagine what SHAPE WATER would do to metahumans and all other life-forms. we're made up of roughly 60% Water or something like that O.o

And Shape Metal . . . all those nifty shiney guns you have? gone.
If you can bribe your GM, think a bit about what obvious cyber usually looks like *snickers*

Shape Air . . that one is going to be complicated, but if you argue your point like OJ Simpsons Lawyer, you might be able to suffocate people by simply moving the air away from their breathing apparatus.

[Browncoatone]

Shape Air . . that one is going to be complicated, but if you argue your point like OJ Simpsons Lawyer, you might be able to suffocate people by simply moving the air away from their breathing apparatus.

No, no, no, simply by holding the same air next to their breathing apparatus.

[Ard3]

For some reason this thread gave me idea of NPC:

Wujen using Tai Chi rituals and various Shape ______ spells to create unique pieces of art.

Extraction target? Or steal some of the art/some art has gone missing....

[Dakka Dakka]

@Stahlseele: Even if said water wasn't part of a whole it would not work because the water is not in line of sight. But bloodbending would be cool.

@Browncoatone: Good questions. I opened this topic to have such questions answered, a IMHO with application of RAW this psell does not work as intended.

[Stahlseele]

well, surgeons and other medical personal would want the shape flesh stuff just as much . . no more cutting, just telling it to divide . .
i now imagine some mage doc dividing the flesh of some woman like moses did to the red sea to put in implants O.o
and lter on, just persuade the flesh to close again, without visible scars.
because it's natural, the OR would be pretty low i imagine . .
probably need to overcome willpower of the target, or need willing target or something like that.

[DireRadiant]

Would a Shape Living Tissue be possible (I admit I was thinking about Tzimisce)? Would Shape Wood affect a tree?

If you had living Tissue that wasn't part of something else. A tissue culture for example. My living flesh is part of me. Get a Shape Me spell.

While a tree is made of wood, wood is not a tree. Get a Shape Tree Spell.

You can take this to apply in general, that if something is composed of material X, but isn't just a pile of material X laying around not being something else, the spell doesn't take effect.

[Dakka Dakka]

Would a shape Metahuman even be allowed? I don't think so. At least it would cease to be an environmental manipulation.

[DireRadiant]

They usually are Health or Combat spells.

[Stahlseele]

Shape Elf < = close enough to Slay Elf, i would allow it ^^

[crizh]

And Shape Metal . . . all those nifty shiney guns you have? gone.

I always thought it would be particularly amusing to just collapse the bore of the barrel. Can you imagine the mess that would make when you fired it?

[Draco18s]

I always thought it would be particularly amusing to just collapse the bore of the barrel. Can you imagine the mess that would make when you fired it?

Banana Peel!

Now, about Shape Flesh (and derivatives). There's a book I read, Perdido Street Station, while not ShadowRun (though dark and creepy in its own way) did have a branch of...profession? it wasn't explained well...that could shape people's flesh. They could stick their fingers into you, through your skin, without harming you (unless you fought back, then it didn't work as well, broke the seal between invading skin and your skin) and do all kinds of things as if surgery (both harmful and helpful: they could reach into your chest and squeeze your heart and kill you, or reach in and remove that bone caught in your throat).

[Wasabi]

I've seen Shape Metal, Shape Concrete, and Shape Plastic used to great effect.

[Stahlseele]

"You think that's a knife?
THIS is a knife!"
'No, that's a Spoon . . and we all know, there IS not spoon . . so what do you intend to do with that lametta in your hand?'

[Browncoatone]

With the object resistance for high tech objects it's probably easier just to use telekinesis to subtlety eject the removable magazine from his gun than to take the extra drain for playdoh-ing the barrel. But telekinesis isn't as flashy.

[HappyDaze]

Would a Shape Living Tissue be possible (I admit I was thinking about Tzimisce)? Would Shape Wood affect a tree?

I wouldn't allow the shaping of living tissues (including trees) with these spells. However, a Shape Corpse spell would be great fun if you want to leave body doubles behind (or if you need to get that oversized body in your trunk).

[Browncoatone]

I don't even want to know why the mage has a Shape Corpse spell. No, really, keep it to yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[HappyDaze]

Mainly for body doubles. Also for making vessels - he follows a possession tradition.

[KarmaInferno]

In a world where some folks can shape materials just by staring at them...

Is there a reason there AREN'T phallic symbols sticking out of every surface from people being, well, people?

"And in other news, yet another tragic auto accident due to some vandal shaping the asphalt at 23rd & Main into a giant penis."



-karma