Is Shape [Material] pretty useless?, Or am I missing something? Options

[Draco18s]

Is there a reason there AREN'T phallic symbols sticking out of every surface from people being, well, people?

Because that kind of culture never arose in ShadowRun.

[Stahlseele]

that'S where Reality and SR Canon deviate from each other.
4chan never happened in there . . don't know if it's something to be sad or happy about *snickers*

[hyzmarca]

You're supposed to fudge a little. Most buildings, for example, are made of "plassteel" which, in spite is the name, is neither plastic nor steel. Thus, "Shape Plassteel" should be useful in most urban areas.

But, seriously, just use the spell design rules to remove the specific target limitation. This increases the drain code by 1, but give you a Shape spell that works on everything.

[Draco18s]

that'S where Reality and SR Canon deviate from each other.
4chan never happened in there . . don't know if it's something to be sad or happy about *snickers*

Right. 1991 (breakup of the USSR). Which means that Eternal September never happened, along with most of our internet culture (which is all, in some sense, related to the same issue that caused Eternal September: Internet Idiots).

[cndblank]

QUOTE
""Shape Concrete could be used to open and close an access point into the Ork underground from an underground parking garage without leaving a permanent opening or (physical) trace of passage."


Only if there is no steel mesh in the concrete, which is standard for such buildings."


All you would need for the steel mesh is some heavy duty wire cutters.

Shape the concrete away then snip an opening in the wire mesh.

Then bend a couple of ends so you can hang it back in place and just swing the mesh out of the way. Swing it up. Go through. Let it swing down. Shape the concrete back over it.

Now you have an entrance/door that really can't be detected. Even something like radar or ultrasound would likely miss cuts in the wire mesh.

So you would only need Shape for the outer layers (like brick and drywall) unless you were trying to do an interior wall.

For that just Shape the drywall till you can find an opening large enough to pass through. Dry wall is also specific enough that I'd include the paint or plaster on the drywall)

[Maelstrome]

You're supposed to fudge a little. Most buildings, for example, are made of "plassteel" which, in spite is the name, is neither plastic nor steel. Thus, "Shape Plassteel" should be useful in most urban areas.

But, seriously, just use the spell design rules to remove the specific target limitation. This increases the drain code by 1, but give you a Shape spell that works on everything.

yeeaaaahh, been there, done that. pissed off a gm.

[Stahlseele]

that idea is beautyfull, i will have to remember that one ^^
also, shape earth, maxed out at force 8 in character generation, dwarf with hight of 1m, 8m long tunnel ^^

[HappyDaze]

yeeaaaahh, been there, done that. pissed off a gm.

That's generally a sign that it's a bad idea. If the GM isn't happy, then no one in the game is going to be happy for long.

[Maelstrome]

That's generally a sign that it's a bad idea. If the GM isn't happy, then no one in the game is going to be happy for long.

well, depends on how you look at it. my group had 3 gms. two of the gms approved the other one was against it.

[Nows7]

that idea is beautyfull, i will have to remember that one ^^
also, shape earth, maxed out at force 8 in character generation, dwarf with hight of 1m, 8m long tunnel ^^

The only thing i can picture this being is some sort of dwarf cannon. Not to say a cannon built by dwarfs, but a cannon built to FIRE dwarfs.

[Shinobi Killfist]

well, depends on how you look at it. my group had 3 gms. two of the gms approved the other one was against it.

I'd be against it as a GM. Removing the limitation from spells designed to be balanced with the limitation is different to me than adding the limitation to spells that are balanced around not having the limitation.

[EvilP]

that idea is beautyfull, i will have to remember that one ^^
also, shape earth, maxed out at force 8 in character generation, dwarf with hight of 1m, 8m long tunnel ^^

I've been playing too much Dwarf Fortress recently. That idea sounds absolutely awesome! When I next make a character it might just be a dwarf who is using shape spells and spirit assistance to create a massive underground base.

Back on shape spells, wouldn't you be able to use them to create vessels for possession and for finding and refining reagents? Who needs to buy and forge plasteel ingots into a plasteel homonculus when you can sneak out in the night and strip some plasteel off whatever you want.

[Stahlseele]

i have such a dwarf built allready for SR3.
he is looking for the secret underground dwarven kingdoms, like the one below germany.
as those are not canon, he will go nuts doing that sooner or later i guess ^^
first idea was to create a N O D - Dwarf, with a really small electrical motorcycle with some sort of weapon attached that he could drive through his tunnels ^^

[Browncoatone]

Yeah, had the same idea for orks in Seattle. Nice little quick smuggling route they can ride their bikes through. Of course there's no streetlights, traffic lights, speed limits, emergency lanes, or ambulances so I was thinking of calling it the "Suicide Express".

[Stahlseele]

that's what cyber-eyes with lowlight and light system are there for ^^

[Browncoatone]

I was going to go with, "You first." But on second thought I think I'm going with, "Be my guest."

[Dakka Dakka]

Well dwarves naturally have thermovision, and don't need to give away their position with lights. Ultrasound might be another possibilty, but of course that is an active sensor and thus a risk as well.

The biggest prtoblem with the underground base/kingdom/smuggling route/whatever would be getting the GM to rule that the tunnels are sturcturally safe.

[Stahlseele]

are there still infra dead lights for vehicles?
in SR3, there was that option for the headlights, so a dwarf could just use that one and his natural thermo view, true.
but mine lost one of his eyes when a shape earth spell went wrong and some stone splionters pretty much gauged out his right eye.
so, one cyber eye with lowlight and light system go in there, a little magic loss, and he's going on with his search again.
i'll see if i can dig the character up on my other computer, if someone wants me to.

[Dakka Dakka]

In SR4 a cloned eye probably would be cheaper than a cybereye, and you do not lose essence.

[Browncoatone]

The biggest prtoblem with the underground base/kingdom/smuggling route/whatever would be getting the GM to rule that the tunnels are sturcturally safe.

Yeah, I was going to have the leader of the ork enclave down there hire a shadowrun team to kidnap a geologist because of exactly that point.

[Stahlseele]

In SR4 a cloned eye probably would be cheaper than a cybereye, and you do not lose essence.

yes, but it's SR3.
and i like a bit of cyber in my mages.
Also, you can not make a cloned eye glow ominously while casting . .
Anybody know Dr.Tomoe?
http://www.absoluteanime.com/sailor_moon/dr_tomoe.jpg
kinda like that, but instead of glasses with the symbol, the eye itself has the symbol and only the one eye does glow if he does (not) want it to.

[Dakka Dakka]

Sorry I forgot the SR4 tag. I edited that now to avoid confusion.

[KeyMasterOfGozer]

QUOTE
""Shape Concrete could be used to open and close an access point into the Ork underground from an underground parking garage without leaving a permanent opening or (physical) trace of passage."

Only if there is no steel mesh in the concrete, which is standard for such buildings."


All you would need for the steel mesh is some heavy duty wire cutters.

Shape the concrete away then snip an opening in the wire mesh.

Obviously you've never seen the steel mesh in this kind of construction. It's made from Rebar. You would not refer to cutting these as "snipping".

[CanRay]

Shape Glass = Entrance that does not change the electrical conductivity of the window. (You'd probably have to know what the Bullet-Resistant Glass is made of, unless it's real Glass.).

Shape Aluminum = "Oh, I'm sorry, were those fire exit door Push Bars supposed to move?"

Shape Silicon = Fun at the Nudie Bar!

Shape Marble = Back-up job doing fancy artwork for high-living SINless people.

Shape Plassteel = Back-up job doing bodywork at the Chop Shop.

Shape Gunmetal = Permenantly Jammed Ares Predators.

Shape Fiberoptics = No more Magesight Goggles.

Shape Synthetic Fibers = Fast and easy way to transport a body and not leave as many blood stains. (Provided there's carpet, that is.).

That's all I got off the top of my head.

[Rasumichin]

The biggest prtoblem with the underground base/kingdom/smuggling route/whatever would be getting the GM to rule that the tunnels are sturcturally safe.

That's where the Architecture knowsoft comes into play...or hilarity ensues because you've caused an entire city block to break into the ground.


As far as the limitations of the spell go, it always mentions "elements or materials".
Element seems to refer not to chemical elements, but to the hermetic elements air, earth, fire and water, so water would probably include both salt- and freshwater, but not other liquids mostly made of water (note that Shape Ice is also mentioned as a seperate spell).

Materials can consist of all kinds of (chemical) elements or compounds, but still, there's only one spell each for all kinds of lava, mud, stone or sand, so it seems that the metaphysical concept of the material is more important than what it's actually made of.

Man, i'd allow a Shape Anything spell just to get rid of having to contemplate such esoteric crap...