Is Shape [Material] pretty useless?, Or am I missing something? Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

On page one I already asked about Shape Flesh/Bone. Shape homo sapiens or Shape carbon based lifeform would be even more overpowered.

That is generally know as "Shapeshift"

[Jaid]

A second spell is faster and cheaper than an industrial plasma metal cutter.

fixed. the miniwelder in the core book is only 250 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[pbangarth]

I agree 100% as long as you are not using magic that allows you to bypass technique, because you require no technique when the material responds perfectly to your will. You do not need to know about stress fractures or grain or anything like that to shape the material without breaking it. The material flows to your will without breaking at all. The only thing you might need to know would be for structural strength, like making thin spans hold heavy parts up. You could still make it beautiful without including any of those obvious flaws, and if you did and it broke, you could just cast the spell again and correct those problems. You could become a "virtuoso" in hours or days.

All "technique" is, is learning how to physically manipulate things into such a way as to make a desired effect. This is not needed if your desired effect happens by magical force of will.

At least that's my opinion.

Technique includes understanding the limitations of the material with which you are working, and the limitations of the tools you are using. When Photoshop came on the scene, whole new capabilities became available to artists who had only used paintbrushes before. They still had to learn how to make Photoshop work. And, more importantly, they still needed the aesthetic experience to know what is beautiful. So Artisan Skill, I think, is still necessary for a character to Shape [material] into an object of beauty.

So there we go, our opinions are expressed. Are we done?

[Dakka Dakka]

That is generally know as "Shapeshift"

You misunderstand me. I don't want to shapeshift into a homo sapiens but I want to be able to reshape the material that makes up a homo sapiens.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You misunderstand me. I don't want to shapeshift into a homo sapiens but I want to be able to reshape the material that makes up a homo sapiens.

Shaping Homo Sapiens into a Dog is still Shapeshift (or even more simply, Critter Form)... But I do get your drift...

[pbangarth]

Shaping Homo sapiens into a suitcase is more the drift, I think.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Shaping Homo sapiens into a suitcase is more the drift, I think.

Probably, that is where it seems to be leading anyway...

[KeyMasterOfGozer]

Technique includes understanding the limitations of the material with which you are working, and the limitations of the tools you are using. When Photoshop came on the scene, whole new capabilities became available to artists who had only used paintbrushes before. They still had to learn how to make Photoshop work. And, more importantly, they still needed the aesthetic experience to know what is beautiful. So Artisan Skill, I think, is still necessary for a character to Shape [material] into an object of beauty.

So there we go, our opinions are expressed. Are we done?

Nope. We are not done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Your photoshop example proves my point. To make something you visualize appear on the screen as the beauty in your mind's eye, you have to learn the techniques of using photoshop to make pretty pictures. That is equivalent to learning an Artisan skill. However, all of that is learning how to make the tools do what is in your mind. The Shape spell nullifies all this, as the material moves automatically into the shape your mind visualizes with no tools at all, and no need to know how to make a raw block of this material take the shape you want without breaking it. Structural soundness after you release the spell would be the only possible consideration, not aesthetics.

I will agree with you that you would need taste and style to make something of beauty with this spell, but that is not the same as technique.

[Sponge]

Shaping Homo sapiens into a suitcase is more the drift, I think.

Orks and Trolls are usually quite good at that naturally, Awakened or not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)