Manhattan ebook, Thoughts, comments? Options

[Backgammon]

So watch'all think of the Manhattan ebook?

[TBRMInsanity]

Can you post the link?

[the_dunner]

The Rotten Apple: Manhattan from DrivethruRPG.com

[TBRMInsanity]

Did I miss something. There is a section on the Towers. Did 9/11 occur in the SR timeline?

[ornot]

I've not read it yet. It is nice to have detailed background for new places though. I can't find a review, however.

[the_dunner]

Did I miss something. There is a section on the Towers. Did 9/11 occur in the SR timeline?

That neighborhood refers to a very different set of Towers. (Ones that formerly constituted Fuchi-Town.)

[BookWyrm]

I've qued it into my wishlist and most likely will DL it after I-CON 28

[NightLife]

Did I miss something. There is a section on the Towers. Did 9/11 occur in the SR timeline?

Nope. That never occured although the Sears Tower came crashing down in Chicago.

[raggedhalo]

As far as I know, the SR devs never said either way whether 9/11 occurred in the SR world. It's just that the Quake four years later was much more devastating to the city as a whole and kinda overshadowed 9/11's effect.

[Zen Shooter01]

I like this product a lot. Manhattan has been heretofore neglected in SR - the last we heard about it was a small section in SoNA, I think. It's high time this major North American city got a thorough treatment. The ebook format makes it easy to buy, or to forego, as you might wish.

Citywide catastrophes are overused, though. Seems like no North American city in SR is complete without an earthquake, tsunami, bug spirit infestation, atomic detonation, or some combination.

[Demonseed Elite]

I like this product a lot. Manhattan has been heretofore neglected in SR - the last we heard about it was a small section in SoNA, I think.

It was a secondary setting entry in Corporate Enclaves, still a small write-up there though.

Citywide catastrophes are overused, though. Seems like no North American city in SR is complete without an earthquake, tsunami, bug spirit infestation, atomic detonation, or some combination.

I agree, though the 2005 NYC Quake has been written into SR backstory since NAGNA, at least (and I think it may even be farther back), so it kinda had to be included.

[Wesley Street]

I just tossed it but I'm pretty sure it was in the history section of the 1st edition of the Big Blue Book as well. Not including the Quake was not an option. But to be fair every location in the Sixth World has been hit by some sort of disaster since 1999.

As far as I understand it, 9/11 did not occur in the Shadowrun time line. The World Trade Center grounds were purchased by Fuchi at some point, razed, and replaced with Fuchi Town which consisted of three towers. Those towers are now headquarters for the dirt-side Corporate Court.

[Link]

I just tossed it but I'm pretty sure it was in the history section of the 1st edition of the Big Blue Book as well.

Yeah, it is.
BTW, why throw away the 1st ed. book? Ratty copy?

[Wesley Street]

Actually, tossed it to a friend. I cut all the pictures and maps I needed out of it.

[TheForgotten]

I like this product a lot. Manhattan has been heretofore neglected in SR - the last we heard about it was a small section in SoNA, I think. It's high time this major North American city got a thorough treatment. The ebook format makes it easy to buy, or to forego, as you might wish.

Citywide catastrophes are overused, though. Seems like no North American city in SR is complete without an earthquake, tsunami, bug spirit infestation, atomic detonation, or some combination.

Well North American has been through a lot as of 2070. See several of my posts arguing that the nation state and possibly civilization as we know it has fallen as of the Shadowrun timeline. What we're seeing in the game is basically "the day after the fall or Rome". It takes about a hundred years for people to realized that they're living in the new Dark Age.

[Backgammon]

While I agree large catastrophes are very common in SR - Chicago coming to mind, New York is a little different in that the current emphasis has nothing to do with the Quake. The Quake, as with other large disasters in SR's past, is a very handy "reset" button that gives the world plausible deniability. It allows very easily to take anywhere and do what you want with it without anyone being able to say "it wouldn't be like that" - because after a large disaster, who knows what it'd be like.

But for Manhattan, the Quake could actually not have happenned and the city would pretty much still be like it is written up to be now. Would it be entirely extra territorial? Probably not, but it would have ended up just the same as Hong Kong. Technically part of a country, but really, the corps call the shots. The Orwellian security could still be in place - with state sanction rather than MDC sanction. Manhattan would have ended up just about the same one way or another.

[The Mack]

I haven't read the new ebook (I have corporate Enclaves), but honestly as someone from New York it's a pretty hard line to swallow.

New Yorkers are one of the more eclectic, varied (ideologically as well as ethnically) and individualistic groups of people on the planet. Often cynical, sarcastic and outspoken I have an extremely hard time biting the direction the SR 'universe' as it were took NYC.

9/11 didn't put a dent in New Yorkers being New Yorkers, I don't see an earthquake doing that either.

[hobgoblin]

a earthquake, two net crashes, one magical awakening (with follow up add-on), and a large rewrite of the world map, all that within the average lifespan of a human...

[The Mack]

a earthquake, two net crashes, one magical awakening (with follow up add-on), and a large rewrite of the world map, all that within the average lifespan of a human...

Hey it's just my opinion as a New Yorker, and although there's never been anything like the Awakening - you'd be surprised at the kind of calamity that culture can survive through.

[hobgoblin]

it can also change over time, in such a way that if one was away one may notice, but if one was present one will not...

[Backgammon]

I haven't read the new ebook (I have corporate Enclaves), but honestly as someone from New York it's a pretty hard line to swallow.

New Yorkers are one of the more eclectic, varied (ideologically as well as ethnically) and individualistic groups of people on the planet. Often cynical, sarcastic and outspoken I have an extremely hard time biting the direction the SR 'universe' as it were took NYC.

9/11 didn't put a dent in New Yorkers being New Yorkers, I don't see an earthquake doing that either.

Nobody said anything about the New Yorker spirit changing (though to be fair, I don't think it's been explicitly said it hasn't changed either). Quite to the contrary, it's been amplified - and polarised.

Firstly, let me remind you New-York, and Manhattan specifically, was largely de-populated after the Quake. Shitloads of people simply died, while a massive chunk then left. It was repopulated, but that will certainly have an impact on local culture, diluting it. New York was repopulated with non-New Yorkers, who simply don't see things the same way.

However, that being said, although diluted, the foundation would still be there. However, you then had a segregation of the population. Manhattan, the corporate enclave, got filled up with corporate types. Imagine Manhattan full of Wall Street types. Young, energetic, ambitious, confident, go-getters. All of the more "common" guys, the Joe and Jane average New Yorker, baseball watching, "hey, I'm walkin here" yelling New Yorkers ended up in the Buroughs. And as the situation in the Buroughs deteriorated, that tough New Yorker attitude, that resilience, would only have been amplified - by necessity.

[the_dunner]

I haven't read the new ebook (I have corporate Enclaves), but honestly as someone from New York it's a pretty hard line to swallow.

I assure you, this was a VERY central concern in developing the ebook. I can't promise you that the issue was addressed perfectly, as there is obviously is Shadowrun history there prior to this one. However, the New York attitude was at the forefront of my mind.

[The Mack]

Firstly, let me remind you New-York, and Manhattan specifically, was largely de-populated after the Quake. Shitloads of people simply died, while a massive chunk then left. It was repopulated, but that will certainly have an impact on local culture, diluting it. New York was repopulated with non-New Yorkers, who simply don't see things the same way.

New York is constantly being populated by non-New Yorkers, it's still a bastion of immigrant groups from around the world. And yet, and it's still very decidedly New York City.

The neighborhood where my father grew up used to be almost nearly Italian. Now? Half is Chinese and the other is Russian. And when I say Chinese and Russian, I mean you won't find any stores selling wares in English. All the signs are in the native tongue of the people's there.

And those diverse peoples add and enhance what NYC is, and in turn become New Yorkers themselves. It's very hard to explain, if you ever have a year free - I suggest living there to see for yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I assure you, this was a VERY central concern in developing the ebook. I can't promise you that the issue was addressed perfectly, as there is obviously is Shadowrun history there prior to this one. However, the New York attitude was at the forefront of my mind.

I'll still check out the ebook, I'm too much of an SR fan not too. And I didn't expect much to change from Corporate Enclaves anyway.

Regardless, I'll give it a read with an open mind once I get it.

[Demonseed Elite]

As a born New Yorker who still spends a great deal of time there and also as the person who wrote the Corporate Enclaves Manhattan blurb, I'm wondering which part doesn't jive well with you.

[martindv]

As far as I understand it, 9/11 did not occur in the Shadowrun time line. The World Trade Center grounds were purchased by Fuchi at some point, razed, and replaced with Fuchi Town which consisted of three towers. Those towers are now headquarters for the dirt-side Corporate Court.

Yeah, because NAGNA flat-out said the Quake of '05 brought them down.

Seriously, it's amazing what you can find out about the game world and where it could have gone if you read that book.

As for retconning 9/11 into Shadowrun. Well... That is the most goddamn ridiculous and flat-out fucking retarded idea ever in RPGs. FATAL is a million times more brilliant an idea. And that doesn't even go into into disrespect and how much it makes me want to punch someone in the face for suggesting it.