IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Ammo abbreviations, I don't understand 10(ml) x 4
Cheapshot
post Mar 28 2009, 11:34 PM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 28-March 09
From: Kirkland, WA
Member No.: 17,030



There is a table that starts on page 307 of the SR4 rulebook. I don't see a definition for the ammo types. for instance the Defiance EX Shocker has 4(m) in the ammo column. the Rancor Sting has 5( c ) and the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki has 10(ml) x 4. Is there a reference for these abbreviations ( c ), (m), (ml) ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 28 2009, 11:43 PM
Post #2


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



p312, reloading firearms table.

basically they are the way the weapon is reloaded:
clip ( c )
internal magazine ( m )
muzzle loaded ( ml )
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MYST1C
post Mar 28 2009, 11:49 PM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 858
Joined: 25-August 03
From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States
Member No.: 5,537



QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 29 2009, 12:43 AM) *
p312, reloading firearms table.
Alternatively, p. 300, Gear Ratings sidebar, first entry ("Ammo").
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 29 2009, 12:43 AM) *
muzzle loaded ( ml )
Though this is misleading with the Sakura Fubuki as that gun in fact uses pre-loaded swapable barrels...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 28 2009, 11:55 PM
Post #4


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



yep, but the issues will be mostly the same, so i do not see a problem with using the same rules.

(and i'm about to get yelled at by a firearms enthusiast again)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cheapshot
post Mar 28 2009, 11:55 PM
Post #5


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 28-March 09
From: Kirkland, WA
Member No.: 17,030



That clarifies it greatly. Thanks all.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Doc Byte
post Mar 29 2009, 12:35 AM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 633
Joined: 16-March 05
From: 51° 16' North 7° 11' East
Member No.: 7,168



QUOTE (MYST1C @ Mar 29 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Though this is misleading with the Sakura Fubuki as that gun in fact uses pre-loaded swapable barrels...


Seeing a metal storm weapon in action at youtube's really scary. I knew a player who chose a Fubuki because he thought it to be a cool looking light pistol. Well, first shot first kill... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 29 2009, 03:14 AM
Post #7


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



funny thing is that i think its classified as light for its ammo, not its size...

i would give it a -1 threshold on concealment...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Degausser
post Mar 29 2009, 05:16 AM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 380
Joined: 19-May 07
Member No.: 11,698



It is interesting to note that Shadowrun, since its inception, has been wrong, as all my gun nut friends are quick to point out. What the game calls a clip is actually a magazine. For instance, when you load a standard pistol with bullets, you are place bullets into the magazine, then put the magazine into the gun. A CLIP is a precursor to the magazine, that old bolt action rifles used. You place the ammo into a thin strip of metal (looking a lot like a money clip) and load that into the gun. The game DOOM made this mistake too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_(firearms)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripper_clip

Now, you can throw a lot of terminology around, and it is a lot more complicated than that (couldn't just have one name for the thing you stick bullets into to stick into the gun) but the gist of it is: Shadowrun's terminology is wrong, as all of my players are quick to point out whenever they can.

Anyway, yes, the Sakura Fubuki is a Muzzel Loader, which means you insert the rounds down the barrel of the gun. There are 4 barrels on the Fubuki, so that is why it is listed as 10x4 ml.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 29 2009, 05:19 AM
Post #9


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



its not just SR that gets it wrong. i think i have seen magazines referred to as clips in all kinds of games.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AllTheNothing
post Mar 29 2009, 11:17 AM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-October 08
Member No.: 16,537



QUOTE (MYST1C @ Mar 29 2009, 01:49 AM) *
Though this is misleading with the Sakura Fubuki as that gun in fact uses pre-loaded swapable barrels...

There's nothing in the rules that states that the Fubuki has swapable barrels, in the Great Dragon missile launcher it's stated that the targeting system is reusable while the rest is disposable, no similar statement is aviable for the Fubuki, nor there are spare barrels (spare clips are by far too cheap to be the answer); in my opinion that mazzle loader means exactlty what it says: you push stacks of caseless ammo in the muzzle, with the option of reloading each barrel separately or reload all the barrels at the same time using a special loader (wich would be the spare clip).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 29 2009, 11:21 AM
Post #11


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



someone dig up the other thread(s) on this subject...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AllTheNothing
post Mar 29 2009, 11:23 AM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-October 08
Member No.: 16,537



QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 29 2009, 07:19 AM) *
its not just SR that gets it wrong. i think i have seen magazines referred to as clips in all kinds of games.

I think it's mainly for distinguish betwen internal and detachable magazines, after all striper clips are meant for fast reloading of internal magazines (or so is what I was able to understand).

@ Hobgoblin
Out of Topic: I've noticed that you've chosen to be a panda! instead of a Great Dragon, what I don't Get is why just a panda! instead of a Panda!?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Mar 29 2009, 01:05 PM
Post #13


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 29 2009, 06:17 AM) *
There's nothing in the rules that states that the Fubuki has swapable barrels


No, but there's an awesome picture of the fubuki with a spare barrel and the insertion line.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 29 2009, 01:22 PM
Post #14


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 29 2009, 12:23 PM) *
I think it's mainly for distinguish betwen internal and detachable magazines, after all striper clips are meant for fast reloading of internal magazines (or so is what I was able to understand).


could be...

QUOTE
@ Hobgoblin
Out of Topic: I've noticed that you've chosen to be a panda! instead of a Great Dragon, what I don't Get is why just a panda! instead of a Panda!?

heh, no specific reason.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AllTheNothing
post Mar 29 2009, 03:21 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-October 08
Member No.: 16,537



QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 29 2009, 02:05 PM) *
No, but there's an awesome picture of the fubuki with a spare barrel and the insertion line.

Where?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 29 2009, 04:29 PM
Post #16


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 29 2009, 04:21 PM) *
Where?

SR4, 302, right next to the description (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AllTheNothing
post Mar 29 2009, 07:04 PM
Post #17


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-October 08
Member No.: 16,537



QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 29 2009, 05:29 PM) *
SR4, 302, right next to the description (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It could be, but it could be the loader used to insert the bullets in the barrel, it's hard to tell from that picture, and I'm still thinking that the barrel swapping operation is not the most practical way to reload the weapon.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Mar 29 2009, 07:15 PM
Post #18


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 29 2009, 03:04 PM) *
It could be, but it could be the loader used to insert the bullets in the barrel, it's hard to tell from that picture, and I'm still thinking that the barrel swapping operation is not the most practical way to reload the weapon.


But shoving bullets one by one into the barrel is?

Metal Storm Reloading, at 1:35 or so. Guy replaces an insert in the barrel that contains the 'nades. The barrel itself isn't replaced, but you don't shove them in one by one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwight
post Mar 29 2009, 07:18 PM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 595
Joined: 20-January 09
Member No.: 16,795



The artist dropped by here some time back and I thought he explained that exchangeable barrels was his intention? Although he's just some artist's interpretation of the technology. In the end what is "barrel" and what is not can be a bit blurred when you are slipping a sleeve containing the rounds inside of another structure. Where does the barrel start and stop becomes a bit of a philosophical question for angels on the head of pins.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Mar 29 2009, 07:26 PM
Post #20


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



Right. So while "muzzle loading" might be the most appropriate annotation for the action, you aren't shoving individual rounds into the thing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dakka Dakka
post Mar 29 2009, 09:56 PM
Post #21


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,507
Joined: 11-November 08
Member No.: 16,582



By RAW you are shoving 10 bullets at once into the barrel with a Complex Action. Wether you explain that by exchangeable barrels or some kind of speed loader is up to you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Mar 30 2009, 04:43 AM
Post #22


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 29 2009, 08:15 PM) *
But shoving bullets one by one into the barrel is?

Metal Storm Reloading, at 1:35 or so. Guy replaces an insert in the barrel that contains the 'nades. The barrel itself isn't replaced, but you don't shove them in one by one.

love the part where they bump the speed up to 3000rpm or there about. talk about hitlers zipper to the nth (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

btw, this may be interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_storm#Features

note the last part, where its mentioned that they have concepts worked up for just about any kind of reload solution. including replacing the whole barrel.

also, at 40 rounds, how often do one plan to reload? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

oh, and the entry in the tablet on page 312 is somewhat interesting, 1 complex action to insert one muzzle tube.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwight
post Mar 30 2009, 12:26 PM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 595
Joined: 20-January 09
Member No.: 16,795



QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 29 2009, 09:43 PM) *
also, at 40 rounds, how often do one plan to reload? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Fairly often unless you don't bother using the very low recoil BF, which is pretty much the point of the weapon.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dakka Dakka
post Mar 30 2009, 12:55 PM
Post #24


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,507
Joined: 11-November 08
Member No.: 16,582



QUOTE (Dwight @ Mar 30 2009, 02:26 PM) *
Fairly often unless you don't bother using the very low recoil BF, which is pretty much the point of the weapon.
With 2 three round bursts a skilled shooter should drop a target. So that's about 6 targets per loaded weapon. How big a battle are you planning?

Outside of combat reload time is pretty much a non-issue
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Mar 30 2009, 01:08 PM
Post #25


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



Personally I think it does 4 round bursts just due to the number of rounds in it. It's really a good question what the designers intended (3 rounds? 4 rounds? From the same barrel, from different barrels?)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 06:59 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.