[X] My Assistant

[Montecka]

Hi.
I am new to SR4 and I am reading up on combat right now.
According to the core rules of SR4, can a defender in melee use Unarmed Combat to defend against a melee weapon?

[bmcoomes]

Yes, but most likely the unarmed defender will be at a disadvantage.

[KCKitsune]

I think so, but if I were GMing the fight, then the player wanting to defend had better have something like brass knuckles or hardliner gloves. Otherwise he's going to be in a world of hurt.

[Uli]

Well it is possible to defend yourself unarmed against an armed aggressor without getting injured. It's just damn difficult. If you want, you kann reduce the defender's skill, but I wouldn't complicate the system any further. Obviously everyone is learning self-defense against weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

Yes, but most likely the unarmed defender will be at a disadvantage.

Unless the attacker uses a knife or brass knuckles he get's +1 per point of net reach. Not exactly a disadvantage for the defender but an advantage for the attacker. But from a mechanics point of view this is better.

[bmcoomes]

same deference you got want I meant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

Not exactly a negative modifier on the defender would increase the probability of glitches for him. The way it is by RAWthe glitch probability decreases for the attacker. I like it.

[Montecka]

Thanks for the quick replies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It looks like you are all agreeing that the rule says that you can use R+UC vs a melee weapon attack.

I really just wanted to know the official core rule for this and I totally agree that this might not hyperrealistic.

[Caadium]

Not exactly a negative modifier on the defender would increase the probability of glitches for him. The way it is by RAWthe glitch probability decreases for the attacker. I like it.

Actually, reach can be applied as either.

The character with the higher net Reach can choose to apply his net Reach bonus as a dice pool modifier bonus to his test or as a negative dice pool modifier to his opponent's test.

[Dakka Dakka]

Oops, forgot that

[ElFenrir]

It's not hyper-real, but it at least is fair for both sides. It's a game, after all. Picking too much on something isn't good for fun.

We just say that since a melee attacker has Reach, they have a better chance of getting the hit to land home. So, in a way, they ARE at a slight advantage over an unarmed attacker(who can't negate that reach with Kick Attack, since we can't see how that would work on defense) but we don't sit there and require hardliners, forearm guards, and the like on TOP of it.

There is a maneuver, Clinch, that can negate the Reach bonus of an attacker, if i recall.

[InfinityzeN]

Clinch and then knee da' crap out of them. Use Finishing Move to get in another knee or two.

And the PPP Forearm guards are fairly cheap to buy if the GM requires some sort of "parry" item to use Unarmed against weapons. Heck, depending on the style, Shin Guards would work as well.

[Stahlseele]

Kick-Boxing, or Muay Thai or however that is called.
if your GM does not want to let you block edged weapons with these, just add in some metal or ceramic plating.
Remember, that there's the kick attack and maneuvre that add reach to unarmed combat as well, so kickboxing would actually even things out for the unarmed against a reach of 1 or maximum 2.
but if you face a troll using a reach 2 weapon, you are fucked anyway *snickers*

[TBRMInsanity]

This reminds me on what my knife instructor said,

If you get in a knife fight your going to get cut. If you think your going to get cut, your going to get cut. If you think your not going to get cut, your going to get cut. In summary your going to get cut. Now if your trained well enough you can choose where you want to get cut.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This reminds me on what my knife instructor said,

If you get in a knife fight your going to get cut. If you think your going to get cut, your going to get cut. If you think your not going to get cut, your going to get cut. In summary your going to get cut. Now if your trained well enough you can choose where you want to get cut.

Sounds a lot like what my Combat Instructor in the Marine Corps told me as well...

[Degausser]

If you get in a knife fight your going to get cut. If you think your going to get cut, your going to get cut. If you think your not going to get cut, your going to get cut. In summary your going to get cut. Now if your trained well enough you can choose where you want to get cut.

Not as good as what my martial arts instructor always said.

"Bring a Knife to a fistfight. Bring a sword to a Knife fight. Bring a Gun to a swordfight. Don't go to a gunfight."

[the_real_elwood]

Not as good as what my martial arts instructor always said.

"Bring a Knife to a fistfight. Bring a sword to a Knife fight. Bring a Gun to a swordfight. Don't go to a gunfight."

No, you bring armored vehicles to a gunfight, then you bring air support to an armored vehicle fight, and then you nuke it from orbit, because its the only way to be sure.

And you don't go to an orbital weapon fight.

[AngelisStorm]

That's the problem now-a-days. No one knows how to have a nice impersonal fist fight. Everyone feels the need to escalate. (*sigh*)

But yup, in a knife fight your going to get cut. Try not to jump on the knife, since your likely to catch it with your guts. Which (litterally, I believe) isn't kosher. The back of the forearm is pretty decent place if your going to choose. The bone is right there, pretty strong, and not a whole lot vital to get cut.

[Cardul]

I think so, but if I were GMing the fight, then the player wanting to defend had better have something like brass knuckles or hardliner gloves. Otherwise he's going to be in a world of hurt.

It depends on the mechanism they are using....since their hits increase threshold needed, it would seem to me more like:
Player: I am using unarmed combat to try and block his sword swing! (Rolls 3 Hits)
GM:(Rolls 4 hits, still succeeds) Your hand moves up, under his sword arm, unfortunately, his angle was still good, so the blade sinks into your shoulder, instead of your collar bone, and your block slows some of the blade momentum down...Roll Damage resistance!
or
GM(Rolls 2 hits): You forearm catches the inside of the sword arm, and pushes it it away just enough to miss striking you.

Neither of those options, though, involves the PC striking at/blocking the blade directly..Something I admit I kind of wonder about, though, is the "Aggressive Defense", where your opponent tries to swing a sword at you, and, instead of trying to block him, you kick him in the gut/sweep his legs/any other tactic to get him staggering away from/on the ground/not swinging that sword at you..

[CanRay]

That's the problem now-a-days. No one knows how to have a nice impersonal fist fight. Everyone feels the need to escalate. (*sigh*)

Two NPCs in my group are always in for a good Fistfight. Krunch and Klub.

It's just that Krunch is a Troll, Klub is a Dwarf, and Krunch uses Klub as a Ranged Weapon.

So far, it's proven to be very, very effective.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not as good as what my martial arts instructor always said.

"Bring a Knife to a fistfight. Bring a sword to a Knife fight. Bring a Gun to a swordfight. Don't go to a gunfight."

Also Good Advice for those inclined to remain healthy

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, you bring armored vehicles to a gunfight, then you bring air support to an armored vehicle fight, and then you nuke it from orbit, because its the only way to be sure.

Yep, The only way to be sure...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Two NPCs in my group are always in for a good Fistfight. Krunch and Klub.

It's just that Krunch is a Troll, Klub is a Dwarf, and Krunch uses Klub as a Ranged Weapon.

So far, it's proven to be very, very effective.

Ahhh Yes, The old Cannonball Express tactic...

[TBRMInsanity]

I sense the Dwarf Tossing jokes coming. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CanRay]

Well, it started with one of the PCs noting "Metahuman Body" in the weapon statistics, and came up with the idea of a Max-Strength Troll using a Heavy Body Armour wearing Max-Body Dwarf as a weapon. Krunch and Klub are born.

It started as two joke NPCs, but they've been fleshed out quite a bit, and Krunch's education has come in handy a few times. Klub's knowledge of engineering has been useful to, come to think of it.